ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1095.

freedomno1

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1090

Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Quote from: arsenische on May 16, 2013, 02:34:12 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on May 16, 2013, 02:23:07 PM

One should calculate this through... of course... heating water with electricity is only in few countries common. For example Norway because of their cheap water power. But it would be a market if you can tell the buyers... "You pay X more and will earn XX more each year with it". The profitability doesn't need to be near that that miner investors look at. Normal persons will be happy with a 10% annual revenue.

Water is not the only thing that needs to be heated. Sometimes people want to heat just a small part of their room (instead of heating the whole house).

Also, instead of disseminating the heat, theoretically mining device could convert it back to electricity. If I get it right, any contrast in temperature can be used to generate electricity. Not sure how efficient it would be though.

Bitcoin the worlds first money generating heater get warmed up and get a bit of a rebate on electricity XD

arsenische

legendary

Activity: 1199

Merit: 1012

Quote from: SebastianJu on May 16, 2013, 02:23:07 PM

One should calculate this through... of course... heating water with electricity is only in few countries common. For example Norway because of their cheap water power. But it would be a market if you can tell the buyers... "You pay X more and will earn XX more each year with it". The profitability doesn't need to be near that that miner investors look at. Normal persons will be happy with a 10% annual revenue.

Water is not the only thing that needs to be heated. Sometimes people want to heat just a small part of their room (instead of heating the whole house).

Also, instead of disseminating the heat, theoretically mining device could convert it back to electricity. If I get it right, any contrast in temperature can be used to generate electricity. Not sure how efficient it would be though.

SebastianJu

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 1083

Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Quote from: arsenische on May 16, 2013, 02:18:25 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on May 16, 2013, 01:22:41 PM

On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

I agree that the window of super-profitable mining is closing. I think Gavin mentioned a good idea in his recent interview. He said that maybe in future there will be water heaters that mine bitcoins.

I think ASICMINER could develop such devices. The heat they generate would be useful.

And it would spread adoption of bitcoin too.

Just imagine, common people (non-geeks) would go to common shop and buy heating devices that subsidize the cost of heat (or even earn money if BTC rate goes up). I think this is a very promising market, very useful for bitcoiners and others too.

Good idea... i guess the heat problem is a problem that wont be solved in the near future... so it looks like this thing can happen. One should calculate this through... of course... heating water with electricity is only in few countries commong. For example norway because of their cheap water power. But it would be a market if you can tell the buyers... "You pay X more and will earn XX more each year with it". The profitability doesnt need to be near that that miner investors look at. Normal persons will be happy with a 10% annual revenue.

arsenische

legendary

Activity: 1199

Merit: 1012

Quote from: SebastianJu on May 16, 2013, 01:22:41 PM

On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

I agree that the window of super-profitable mining is closing. I think Gavin mentioned a good idea in his recent interview. He said that maybe in future there will be water heaters that mine bitcoins.

I think ASICMINER could develop such devices. The heat they generate would be useful.

And it would spread adoption of bitcoin too.

Just imagine, common people (non-geeks) would go to common shop and buy heating devices that subsidize the cost of heat (or even earn money if BTC rate goes up). I think this is a very promising market, very useful for bitcoiners and others too.

SebastianJu

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 1083

Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on May 16, 2013, 01:40:18 PM

There's no way to say what specs, costs, or mining difficulty cocktail allows this to work yet. It's just a fun idea to toss around for now. If bitcoin lasts for many years, you'll see innovative ideas like this come to fruition.

Or, better yet, if people keep coming up with innovative ideas and investing them (ASICMINER), then it's possible you can build an economy around bitcoin to get us to the future faster Wink

Yes... its important. AM is now so big... one could say AM is 30% of whole bitcoin. That means AM needs to think about ideas how to ensure that bitcoin will live long. Such ideas are going in this direction...

ThickAsThieves

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: SebastianJu on May 16, 2013, 01:34:13 PM

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on May 16, 2013, 01:29:22 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on May 16, 2013, 01:22:41 PM

Quote from: eiprol on May 16, 2013, 01:09:28 PM

I'm amazed with your idea of getting a revenue with the phone, mining with it. Imagine a world were, not only banks (with fiat) are not involved on the economy in the sense they are now, but also people is helped to grow some money with that new monetary system. Simply great.

Even though its an interesting idea... i doubt that it will work out... the market saturation with ASIC's will come soon. So that one single ASIC wont bring much revenue at the end of the day. I mean 282MH/s (Avalon) dont bring much now too but it will become way worse when the ASIC's revenue comes close to the power cost running them. That happened with GPU's too at a point. So i think this project only has a limited lifetime.
On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

So im not too convinced of the idea. But i think ideas have to pop up to find out how to spread the bitcoin currency.

I had proposed this idea months ago in IRC. It is something that doesn't become feasible until maybe 5th-generation ASICs or such. The idea would be that mining would become largely spread on a user basis, and that in order to send a tx, you'd have to do your fair share of mining to support the network for that tx. It begins to make a lot more sense when billions of people use bitcoin, and you can get 1TH on a chip or whatever makes sense.

If it will be 1TH on a chip the hashrate probably will be million times a TH. And such TH-Chip will be even more costly to create than the chips nowadays.
You mean forced mining or free transaction when you mine? Because forcing every pc to mine can become costly with power and wouldnt be very good for environment.
If a change in bitcoin protocoll is involved i think it will be hard to do. I can imagine a big opposition against some kind of forced mining...

There's no way to say what specs, costs, or mining difficulty cocktail allows this to work yet. It's just a fun idea to toss around for now. If bitcoin lasts for many years, you'll see innovative ideas like this come to fruition.

Or, better yet, if people keep coming up with innovative ideas and investing them (ASICMINER), then it's possible you can build an economy around bitcoin to get us to the future faster Wink

stripykitteh

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1001

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

When you are making chips in the billions, the NRE is high but the marginal cost of production is negligible. That's why it will work. The hashrate will be very high of course but almost everyone will be getting some of the reward, which will almost exclusively be transaction fees.

SebastianJu

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 1083

Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on May 16, 2013, 01:29:22 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on May 16, 2013, 01:22:41 PM

Quote from: eiprol on May 16, 2013, 01:09:28 PM

I'm amazed with your idea of getting a revenue with the phone, mining with it. Imagine a world were, not only banks (with fiat) are not involved on the economy in the sense they are now, but also people is helped to grow some money with that new monetary system. Simply great.

Even though its an interesting idea... i doubt that it will work out... the market saturation with ASIC's will come soon. So that one single ASIC wont bring much revenue at the end of the day. I mean 282MH/s (Avalon) dont bring much now too but it will become way worse when the ASIC's revenue comes close to the power cost running them. That happened with GPU's too at a point. So i think this project only has a limited lifetime.
On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

So im not too convinced of the idea. But i think ideas have to pop up to find out how to spread the bitcoin currency.

I had proposed this idea months ago in IRC. It is something that doesn't become feasible until maybe 5th-generation ASICs or such. The idea would be that mining would become largely spread on a user basis, and that in order to send a tx, you'd have to do your fair share of mining to support the network for that tx. It begins to make a lot more sense when billions of people use bitcoin, and you can get 1TH on a chip or whatever makes sense.

If it will be 1TH on a chip the hashrate probably will be million times a TH. And such TH-Chip will be even more costly to create than the chips nowadays.
You mean forced mining or free transaction when you mine? Because forcing every pc to mine can become costly with power and wouldnt be very good for environment.
If a change in bitcoin protocoll is involved i think it will be hard to do. I can imagine a big opposition against some kind of forced mining...

ThickAsThieves

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: SebastianJu on May 16, 2013, 01:22:41 PM

Quote from: eiprol on May 16, 2013, 01:09:28 PM

I'm amazed with your idea of getting a revenue with the phone, mining with it. Imagine a world were, not only banks (with fiat) are not involved on the economy in the sense they are now, but also people is helped to grow some money with that new monetary system. Simply great.

Even though its an interesting idea... i doubt that it will work out... the market saturation with ASIC's will come soon. So that one single ASIC wont bring much revenue at the end of the day. I mean 282MH/s (Avalon) dont bring much now too but it will become way worse when the ASIC's revenue comes close to the power cost running them. That happened with GPU's too at a point. So i think this project only has a limited lifetime.
On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

So im not too convinced of the idea. But i think ideas have to pop up to find out how to spread the bitcoin currency.

I had proposed this idea months ago in IRC. It is something that doesn't become feasible until maybe 5th-generation ASICs or such. The idea would be that mining would become largely spread on a user basis, and that in order to send a tx, you'd have to do your fair share of mining to support the network for that tx. It begins to make a lot more sense when billions of people use bitcoin, and you can get 1TH on a chip or whatever makes sense.

SebastianJu

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 1083

Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Quote from: eiprol on May 16, 2013, 01:09:28 PM

I'm amazed with your idea of getting a revenue with the phone, mining with it. Imagine a world were, not only banks (with fiat) are not involved on the economy in the sense they are now, but also people is helped to grow some money with that new monetary system. Simply great.

Even though its an interesting idea... i doubt that it will work out... the market saturation with ASIC's will come soon. So that one single ASIC wont bring much revenue at the end of the day. I mean 282MH/s (Avalon) dont bring much now too but it will become way worse when the ASIC's revenue comes close to the power cost running them. That happened with GPU's too at a point. So i think this project only has a limited lifetime.
On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

So im not too convinced of the idea. But i think ideas have to pop up to find out how to spread the bitcoin currency.

eiprol

member

Activity: 117

Merit: 10

bitarchitect

I'm amazed with your idea of getting a revenue with the phone, mining with it. Imagine a world were, not only banks (with fiat) are not involved on the economy in the sense they are now, but also people is helped to grow some money with that new monetary system. Simply great.

Ps: is friedcat going to write an update like everyweek? Or I have missed it?

stripykitteh

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1001

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

Quote from: thx1164 on May 16, 2013, 11:47:08 AM

Quote from: Theraty on May 16, 2013, 11:28:27 AM

Great idea. The bitcoins on phone can be changed to credit automatically. A phne that makes its own free credit.

In some places in Africa, cell phone minutes are actually used as a type of currency. Once someone figures out how to implement this idea (although I am skeptical until batteries can put out a lot more juice), OR trade bitcoins via SMS, I think we will have a MASSIVE market that opens up in Africa.

Good point about cell phone minutes.

I know there will be technical hurdles to overcome with regard to power efficiency, but I think it's inevitable that a device like this will exist, maybe *must* exist, when Bitcoin becomes ubiquitous.

We expect smartphones to be web-capable. The commodity phone of a few years from now will be web-capable and Bitcoin-capable. Things like calculators, personal organizers, watches, email, messaging, webapps have all migrated to cell phones. Bitcoin's turn is coming. The difference is you will be *paid* just to be connected, instead of the other way around. The same phone that might only earn enough BTC per day to pay for one subway trip in NYC might put food on the table for a family in Nairobi.

thx1164

newbie

Activity: 23

Merit: 0

Quote from: Theraty on May 16, 2013, 11:28:27 AM

Quote from: stripykitteh on May 16, 2013, 05:25:43 AM

Quote from: stripykitteh on May 16, 2013, 04:03:54 AM

I'm interested in what happened in Africa in the 1990's and 2000's. In many parts there infrastructure is poor, and liable to being unmaintained, stolen, or destroyed by conflict. Many parts of Africa have good mobile phone networks, though, as they're relatively cheap to deploy and can be deployed in numbers to provide redundancy (or even just moved around on trucks). If you said to a villager in many parts of Africa that his mobile phone can generate $2 a day if it does Bitcoin, he'd probably offer his daughter to you.

I've had a couple more thoughts riffing on this idea over a glass of wine. Yes, it is after 5 where I am.

Make the chips as cheap as possible, maybe even *pay* mobile phone makers to bundle them into handsets.

Consider collaborating with other leading Bitcoin miners to fund development. Design goals are the best performance possible with low power. It will be designed to go into a cheap phone, so sleek design is not so important, i.e., the phone might be a "brick" with a larger battery.

Great idea. The bitcoins on phone can be changed to credit automatically. A phne that makes its own free credit.

In some places in Africa, cell phone minutes are actually used as a type of currency. Once someone figures out how to implement this idea (although I am skeptical until batteries can put out a lot more juice), OR trade bitcoins via SMS, I think we will have a MASSIVE market that opens up in Africa.

Theraty

member

Activity: 196

Merit: 10

Quote from: stripykitteh on May 16, 2013, 05:25:43 AM

Quote from: stripykitteh on May 16, 2013, 04:03:54 AM

I'm interested in what happened in Africa in the 1990's and 2000's. In many parts there infrastructure is poor, and liable to being unmaintained, stolen, or destroyed by conflict. Many parts of Africa have good mobile phone networks, though, as they're relatively cheap to deploy and can be deployed in numbers to provide redundancy (or even just moved around on trucks). If you said to a villager in many parts of Africa that his mobile phone can generate $2 a day if it does Bitcoin, he'd probably offer his daughter to you.

I've had a couple more thoughts riffing on this idea over a glass of wine. Yes, it is after 5 where I am.

Make the chips as cheap as possible, maybe even *pay* mobile phone makers to bundle them into handsets.

Consider collaborating with other leading Bitcoin miners to fund development. Design goals are the best performance possible with low power. It will be designed to go into a cheap phone, so sleek design is not so important, i.e., the phone might be a "brick" with a larger battery.

Great idea. The bitcoins on phone can be changed to credit automatically. A phne that makes its own free credit.

ThickAsThieves

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: thx1164 on May 16, 2013, 11:17:02 AM

Quote from: freedomno1 on May 16, 2013, 04:12:43 AM

The exchanges are around 1000 now and havelock's is just a week old so the passthrus will get a seat it was part of the release based on the combination of shares so yes in time it may be allocated a seat

Actually DT's PT has a board seat already if I am not mistaken.

https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.ASICMINER-PT Shares Issued: 19,160

Burnside's PT has a board seat as well. I am the only one that does not yet. Board seat does not bring any tangible benefit to PT shareholders yet, but in the event Friedcat does issue out the test boards he mentioned in the past, it is very likely I will simply buy one myself to keep up with the Joneses.

thx1164

newbie

Activity: 23

Merit: 0

Quote from: freedomno1 on May 16, 2013, 04:12:43 AM

The exchanges are around 1000 now and havelock's is just a week old so the passthrus will get a seat it was part of the release based on the combination of shares so yes in time it may be allocated a seat

Actually DT's PT has a board seat already if I am not mistaken.

https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.ASICMINER-PT Shares Issued: 19,160

Franktank

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

Quote from: TiuraZ on May 16, 2013, 08:14:41 AM

Quote from: Franktank on May 16, 2013, 07:55:11 AM

ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades

If I have understut it correctly, there will be no more auctions for Blades. Auctions were used to determine correct price for direct sales, and you have already found the thread where they are sold without auction for a fixed price.

Yep, I'm curious if there will be any price adjustments in the next several weeks as there are other ASICs shipping.

TiuraZ

member

Activity: 101

Merit: 10

Quote from: Franktank on May 16, 2013, 07:55:11 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

There will be more auctions this week?

ASICMiner Block Eruptor Blades

If I have understut it correctly, there will be no more auctions for Blades. Auctions were used to determine correct price for direct sales, and you have already found the thread where they are sold without auction for a fixed price.

Franktank

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500