Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1122. (Read 3917058 times)

Not sure why we are being so reactive or twitchy over this unsubstantiated rumour? Unless somehow we buy into it? I think we have to consider the source of this rumour and do some thinking. Is it more or less likely that the people would be unethical? Is it more or less likely that companies will even have the time to collaborate yet in this startup/wild west environment?

Also, do we know that someone is getting inside information from someone else? Or are we just making unfounded assumptions?

Basically, this should be a non-issue unless there is proof. Responding to such rumours/trolling only give them more legs.

I was just making the point that if the two companies collaborated, I'm not sure how that could be considered "illegal" or detrimental to the share price. Companies collaborate all the time, and as a shareowner of ASICMINER, if there is a positive outcome from a collaboration, I welcome it.


Using Lance Armstrong to compare to this situation probably isn't the right analogy. Probably you could use the analogy of IBM and Microsoft in the early PC days.

Also, what is one's definition of "unfair advantage"? Someone looking at ASICMINER right now as a potential shareholder would conclude that ASICMINER has an "unfair advantage". They have proven, demonstrable hash rates with mining, and concrete products that are shipping out right NOW - with warranties. Compared to the competition, they are killing them with this two-pronged approach. Should we ask ASICMINER to reduce their "unfair advantage"?

Should we not separate our own personal opinions on what is "unfair advantage" and just let the market dictate things?

This isn't a matter of collaboration. This is a claim that someone deep inside Avalon covertly working for ASICMiner and holding back Avalon shipping to benefit ASICMiner. In other words, purposely hurting Avalon so ASCIMiner could gain an advantage.

And you would have no problems with that because you think it could make more money? Do you not understand the gravity of such accusations were they to be found even remotely possible?

Just for anyone visiting this thread later: These claims were probably made in error and there is no evidence of any wrong-doing in this.

.b

I personally feel that if you are looking at such a possible situation based on only, and absolutely nothing else, how much money you make by being an asicminer shareholder, then ASICminer collaborating with avalon in such a manner would be only a good thing. I feel that most other shareholders would feel the same, assuming they care only about gains by being a shareholder. If such an act is moral or immoral is a totally other topic of discussion which can last hours, even more so once you realize many have different definitions of moral.

If ASICminer was found to be using legal yet still considered by some unethical practices to put them in a VERY advantageous, then I sure as heck would buy more shares from them for the short term. Looking at the longterm is more difficult regardless of whatever situation you are looking at. It would make me more money, it would be illogical of me, as well as probably others as well, to sell at a tanking price when ASICminer will be doing so well due to their advantage.

I personally do not feel that the market would sell shares of ASICminer if they were to be found to be collaborating with Avalon in such a manner, and I feel even more strongly that the shares would not fall in value catastrophically if such information were to be found. Also, I am very doubtful of this rumor being true, just as furuknap said. If Asicminer were making their own ic's, why would they be buying from avalon? Maybe to satisfy a very strong demand for short term hash rate increases, but otherwise it does not make sense. Based on how large ASICminer's needs are for hashrate, it makes sense for them to design and fab their own chips.

You mean like a court of law? Again, I have no idea how the legal system works in China, but I imagine that any lawyer would have a field day if it turned out AM had earned millions from someone in Avalon leaking information or manipulating Avalon's results.

.b

And you think Avalon would just say "Oh, dang, well, let's move on..." after that? They would rip AM a new one in any jurisdiction of any civilized country, probably shutting down AM forever.

At the very least, they could sue for any revenue AM has made.

.b

In this case, Dr Zhang is a primary insider, and the claim was that Dr Zhang had ties to and sat on the board of ASCIMiner and that because of this, Avalon was delayed in deliveries somehow. In other words, a primary insider in Avalon was hampering Avalon's deliveries to benefit ASICMiner.

I'm sure you can see why this would be a huge problem for the credibility of AM, regardless of whether this is illegal in certain jurisdictions. I am not a lawyer and have no idea how corporate laws are in China, but at the very least it would cause problems for investors outside of China where this would be highly unethical and cause for legal action.

This isn't a case of getting a little help; this is a case of Microsoft getting insider information from the a member of the board of directors in Apple and using that information to launch iPhone 6 or whatever the next number is.


And if the market believed the performance was based on an unfair advantage? See how the market treated Lance Armstrong after he was caught cheating.

Would you still want to buy shares, knowing that the results you've seen until now is not going to last after the cheating is exposed?

I believe the matter is closed, though, so no point in pursuing further speculation. The poster admitted, as I interpret it, to not knowing of any evidence to support his speculation.

.b

Although I don't believe this is the case, if I (everyone) found out it was true, what really is there to stop it? Realistically, the price of AM would spike, as there are no regulations to stop it. Taking a step back, on a personal level I'd like to think that I am investing in a company that can just "win" based on their technical strengths, but as an investor, I am ok with this theory. (I'd not want to be a US investor in Avalon Inc, or a potential buyer of Avalon equipment.)

IE: I think this rumor is hogwash, because Friedcat seems a great fellow that I'd love to take out for beers, but I think if it were true, as shareholders, we should sorta be celebrating, and hoping there is some truth to this rumor.

-helixone

It sure will ruin Avalon, not another way around.

Not sure if anyone was jumping to the conclusion that Avalon helping ASICMiner would be "cheating" or "unlawful behaviour" or a "scam"? Companies which have been competitors (i.e. Apple and Microsoft, Apple and Samsung) have also collaborated together, but is that considered "cheating"?

Also, the market dictates share prices. I for one would hope someone dumps shares based on any rumours that Avalon is collaborating with ASICMiner. If Avalon is collaborating and working with ASICMiner then that only helps ASICMINER. Performance and hashrate will override personal opinions.

What would you think if it turned out that for example the perceived best cyclist in the world became the best by cheating and using unethical means to achieve the wins?

How would you feel about ASICMiner if it turned out that their success was the result of a scam, in this case a competitor's key insider leaking information or hampering his own company's progress?

If it turned out that ASICMiner's success was the result of cheating or unlawful behavior, that means that as soon as that cheating or unlawful behavior was exposed and stopped, their success would also stop.

Thus: Cheating exposed would ruin ASICMiner share prices.

As it turns out, the person claiming this probably wasn't aware of what they were saying and probably didn't intend to cause such suspicions, but to make absolutely sure there wasn't a shred of truth in the accusations, I had to ask :-)

.b

Please educate me and the crew. You are stating that if it was proved that AM had an unfair market advantage it would hurt the stock price. What are all of us missing? (Although I knows nothing about Chinese culture, I kinda hope the new guy is right.)

-helixone

You both fail

Avalon = 110nm
AM = 130nm

They are selling like hotcakes at this rate that board seat may be close

I fail, sorry. 

90 iirc

The ASIC chips used in Avalon and AM is different - actually I remember correctly AM is using the older 110nm chips while Avalon uses the slightly newer chip at 70+-nm.

And yes, I can read Chinese for god's sake. 

All I want to say is ASICMINER price will go increase, I am sorry about involving DR.ZHANG , I made a wrong assumption...but your language is also kind of rude...about the delay of avalon , you can find out in this forum...I just realize that FRIEDCAT is also invented own ASIC chips...everything is clear now....I strongly believe ASICMINER will go over 2 BTC per Share....

I'm somewhat convinced you have no idea what you are saying.

Right now, you are claiming that somewhere in a Chinese web page is evidence that Dr Zhang is involved in highly dubious and most likely criminal activities and that the result is what we're seeing with ASICMiner's success.

If that is so, and you can provide evidence it is so, then ASICMiner would suffer a catastrophic crash once this evidence came to light. That is why what you are saying is extremely serious, and if there is such evidence, that it is extremely important that you help us find and interpret that evidence.

Can you provide us with a link to a specific web page, Chinese or otherwise, that backs up your claims?

If not, I suggest you calm down, stop making such accusations or at least realize that it is the one that makes a claim that bears the burden of evidence, and then come back in a while.

Please understand that we're only trying to find out whether there is any shred of truth in your claims, not attack you.

.b

You don't get it. And yes, I am stupid to think you would. And so immature...

Again: You are accusing people of conspiracy. In this case manipulating the market share of ASICMINER, share price, dividends. Reputation of both friedcat and dr zhang are being challenged by you. You owe an apology at least.

And yes, I am the long lost child of dr zhang.

By the way , the clue is simple.... Lot of people not received their order of AVALON...I am a Chinese I can read Chinese...if you had this ability you also can go to BTCMAN.COM to find out the information....  another is in the meanwhile ASICMINER had doubt its HASH RATE...I just think this is absolute advantage for ASICMINER...It not a accusation,  It is a assumption!!!!!!! Assumption is equal to guess...And for your knowledge ,ASICMINER is a Chinese Company operating In Shenzhen!!! I do not think anyone else in China had produced ASIC chips other than Dr.Zhang...!!!thus I relate this together...there not because they had any deal between ASICMINER and DR.ZHANG , the thing I want to mentioned is high possibility that ASICMINER had kind of relationship or ability to get ASICMINER EQUIPMENT than anyone else...If you think I am wrong , please use polite language to point out and with evidences...Do not just as me to shut up, sounds like you are son of DR.ZHANG.. wants to try every effort to maintaining your father's reputation...  In addition..I am just assumption, if you are ASICMINER's shareholder, You will know all my talking is shows your the ability of ASICMINER to continue dominating in mining...which I think is great news for ASICMINE's shareholders!!!!!!


Do not reply me with stupid language,  be mature!!!you are not son of DR.ZHANG!!!!