ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1117.

gyverlb

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Quote from: kano on May 10, 2013, 02:00:54 PM

Actually ... the only thing that would matter is how much BTC is on offer to buy NMC
If AM makes 900 BTC a day (1/4 of the network) then if NMC is really going to add ... say ... 10% then AM would be selling 90BTC of NMC every day to make 10% .......

I agree this is part of the equation. But how much BTC on offer is not all BTC available and it's hard to estimate what are the reserves (people waiting for the right price to post an order).

Currently and according to this: http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/orderbook.php?pair=nmc-btc&market=btc-e
if I'm not mistaken selling 50% of a day worth of mining (72 * 50 = 3600 NMC would move the price from 0.0085 BTC to 0.0083 BTC and make ~30BTC

Hey, I'm willing to manage the ASICIMINER NMC earnings for a 5% cut :-)

With their kind of hashrate ASICMINER is already in a position to make multiple deals with people setting up private pools with very low fees distributing their hashrate and picking the most stable and profitable ones. Pool operators would then be free to use merged-mining to offer better deals and win more hashrate.
If they use stratum-proxy locally, a private pool doesn't have to be on an extremely powerful system, just properly designed (hardware and net connectivity) and configured. In the context of a private pool I probably would be interested in making a proposal to friedcat myself.

ThickAsThieves

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Quote from: velacreations on May 10, 2013, 03:45:23 PM

Got my btc today, ready to buy more shares. And look, shares are back down on Bitfunder! woo hoo! Grin

thanks to whoever sold their shares so cheap!

Except that Bitfunder deposits are broken today.

velacreations

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Got my btc today, ready to buy more shares. And look, shares are back down on Bitfunder! woo hoo! Grin

thanks to whoever sold their shares so cheap!

kokojie

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Quote from: kano on May 10, 2013, 02:00:54 PM

Actually ... the only thing that would matter is how much BTC is on offer to buy NMC
If AM makes 900 BTC a day (1/4 of the network) then if NMC is really going to add ... say ... 10% then AM would be selling 90BTC of NMC every day to make 10% .......

FriedCat should really hire a trader to sell for him. If he just sell into the bid, he's gonna crash NMC price by 5% each time he sells.

kano

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Actually ... the only thing that would matter is how much BTC is on offer to buy NMC
If AM makes 900 BTC a day (1/4 of the network) then if NMC is really going to add ... say ... 10% then AM would be selling 90BTC of NMC every day to make 10% .......

gyverlb

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Quote from: kaerf on May 10, 2013, 11:32:16 AM

if AM were to use a small (relative) amount of hash power on an altchain, they would still need to dump the coins on the market. the huge dumps everyday would dramatically reduce the price of the coin.

That remains to be seen. On btc-e alone, last 24h volume for NMC was 54000+. There are 144 blocks of 50 NMC each day on average... So ASICMINER would only add 10% more volume on this exchange if it mined it at 50% and sold everything on it (in the short term until the difficulty adjusts, then only 5%).

The impact on price would depend largely on the current state of offer/demand ratio :

If most NMC miners already sell it means there is enough demand to absorb ASICMINER production, the price would only dip until the next retarget due to temporary having more offer on the market.

If most miners are hoarding NMC then the price would fall like a brick.

That said this discussion is premature: in the short term, focusing on adding more hashrate is the best way to increase income. I suppose friedcat & Co will focus on optimization details when they will have put the ~250TH online and got their well deserved rest on a beach in a paradisical island (hopefully leaving someone fresh in charge of the mining operation)...

baloo_kiev

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Quote from: kano on May 10, 2013, 03:34:01 AM

change the algorithm to exclude the ASICMINER devices

Not sure if you are joking or not. How is that possible?

velacreations

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Quote from: ThickAsThieves on May 10, 2013, 12:01:23 PM

1. Make a bitbet that says X altcoin will fall to some very low value.
2. Spam that bet in trollbox
3. Use AM's mined altcoins to crash that coin the day before the bet expires.
4. Profit.
5. Altcoiners realize altcoins really are too risky, and get back into bitcoin
6. Altcoiners see that AM is the best asset to invest in and buy shares
7. Profit.

Now, THAT's a business plan! Grin

kokojie

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Quote from: Mausini on May 10, 2013, 11:53:31 AM

Quote from: muyuu on May 10, 2013, 11:47:04 AM

Quote from: kaerf on May 10, 2013, 11:32:16 AM

Quote from: Pinwheel on May 10, 2013, 08:11:18 AM

ASICMINER works for mining any SHA-256 alt coin pretty well. I mined today TRC and later PPC. Today morning profitability of TRC vs BTC was 187%. People jumped mining it and difficulty went from 12000 to 120000 in few hours profitability dropped to 37%. So, question is not if ASICMINER can mine alt coins or not, but if it make any sense to do.

it probably does not make sense.

AM could easily contribute > 50% to any sha256 altcoin...basically destroying it.

if AM were to use a small (relative) amount of hash power on an altchain, they would still need to dump the coins on the market. the huge dumps everyday would dramatically reduce the price of the coin.

not worth the time.

Destroying a couple useless alt-coins would probably be a good deed though. As long as it's profitable, why not?

that's the reason why bitcoin is superior to all sha256 altcoins. in theory asicminer alone could just screw them, which might even be a good practical idea from time to time. scrypt however somehow makes sense as a real, smaller alternative to bitcoin.. something like silver compared to gold.

Except PPC, AM hash rates can go up 10X and still pose nearly no threat to the PPC chain.

ThickAsThieves

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Quote from: muyuu on May 10, 2013, 11:47:04 AM

Quote from: kaerf on May 10, 2013, 11:32:16 AM

Quote from: Pinwheel on May 10, 2013, 08:11:18 AM

ASICMINER works for mining any SHA-256 alt coin pretty well. I mined today TRC and later PPC. Today morning profitability of TRC vs BTC was 187%. People jumped mining it and difficulty went from 12000 to 120000 in few hours profitability dropped to 37%. So, question is not if ASICMINER can mine alt coins or not, but if it make any sense to do.

it probably does not make sense.

AM could easily contribute > 50% to any sha256 altcoin...basically destroying it.

if AM were to use a small (relative) amount of hash power on an altchain, they would still need to dump the coins on the market. the huge dumps everyday would dramatically reduce the price of the coin.

not worth the time.

Destroying a couple useless alt-coins would probably be a good deed though. As long as it's profitable, why not?

1. Make a bitbet that says X altcoin will fall to some very low value.
2. Spam that bet in trollbox
3. Use AM's mined altcoins to crash that coin the day before the bet expires.
4. Profit.
5. Altcoiners realize altcoins really are too risky, and get back into bitcoin
6. Altcoiners see that AM is the best asset to invest in and buy shares
7. Profit.

muyuu

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Activity: 980

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ?? on ??

If you destroy what you mine, how is that "profitable"?

If you destroy it through a profitable last dump, it's doable. Then you switch immediately and never look back.

The proliferation of me-too coins is an argument of the naysayers, too. Inflation though "substitutable coins". Coins that don't contribute anything to the cryptocurrency landscape should be ravaged. Plain and simple.

Mausini

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Quote from: muyuu on May 10, 2013, 11:47:04 AM

Quote from: kaerf on May 10, 2013, 11:32:16 AM

Quote from: Pinwheel on May 10, 2013, 08:11:18 AM

ASICMINER works for mining any SHA-256 alt coin pretty well. I mined today TRC and later PPC. Today morning profitability of TRC vs BTC was 187%. People jumped mining it and difficulty went from 12000 to 120000 in few hours profitability dropped to 37%. So, question is not if ASICMINER can mine alt coins or not, but if it make any sense to do.

it probably does not make sense.

AM could easily contribute > 50% to any sha256 altcoin...basically destroying it.

if AM were to use a small (relative) amount of hash power on an altchain, they would still need to dump the coins on the market. the huge dumps everyday would dramatically reduce the price of the coin.

not worth the time.

Destroying a couple useless alt-coins would probably be a good deed though. As long as it's profitable, why not?

that's the reason why bitcoin is superior to all sha256 altcoins. in theory asicminer alone could just screw them, which might even be a good practical idea from time to time. scrypt however somehow makes sense as a real, smaller alternative to bitcoin.. something like silver compared to gold.

muyuu

donator

Activity: 980

Merit: 1000

Quote from: kaerf on May 10, 2013, 11:32:16 AM

Quote from: Pinwheel on May 10, 2013, 08:11:18 AM

ASICMINER works for mining any SHA-256 alt coin pretty well. I mined today TRC and later PPC. Today morning profitability of TRC vs BTC was 187%. People jumped mining it and difficulty went from 12000 to 120000 in few hours profitability dropped to 37%. So, question is not if ASICMINER can mine alt coins or not, but if it make any sense to do.

it probably does not make sense.

AM could easily contribute > 50% to any sha256 altcoin...basically destroying it.

if AM were to use a small (relative) amount of hash power on an altchain, they would still need to dump the coins on the market. the huge dumps everyday would dramatically reduce the price of the coin.

not worth the time.

Destroying a couple useless alt-coins would probably be a good deed though. As long as it's profitable, why not?

kaerf

hero member

Activity: 631

Merit: 500

Quote from: Pinwheel on May 10, 2013, 08:11:18 AM

ASICMINER works for mining any SHA-256 alt coin pretty well. I mined today TRC and later PPC. Today morning profitability of TRC vs BTC was 187%. People jumped mining it and difficulty went from 12000 to 120000 in few hours profitability dropped to 37%. So, question is not if ASICMINER can mine alt coins or not, but if it make any sense to do.

it probably does not make sense.

AM could easily contribute > 50% to any sha256 altcoin...basically destroying it.

if AM were to use a small (relative) amount of hash power on an altchain, they would still need to dump the coins on the market. the huge dumps everyday would dramatically reduce the price of the coin.

not worth the time.

Pinwheel

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

ASICMINER works for mining any SHA-256 alt coin pretty well. I mined today TRC and later PPC. Today morning profitability of TRC vs BTC was 187%. People jumped mining it and difficulty went from 12000 to 120000 in few hours profitability dropped to 37%. So, question is not if ASICMINER can mine alt coins or not, but if it make any sense to do.

JaredR26

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Activity: 219

Merit: 100

Quote from: Transisto on May 10, 2013, 12:32:19 AM

Please stop being worried about an single entity having 50%+ of the network,

Someone could have 90% hashrate and as long as he doesn't mess with the chain rules you've nothing to worry about.

It does matter. What if the attacker was a government? They don't have to try to stop Bitcoin. They just have to sieze that one operator of 50+% mining, and suddenly they have the whole network.

kano

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on May 10, 2013, 01:55:03 AM

Quote from: Transisto on May 10, 2013, 12:32:19 AM

Please stop being worried about an single entity having 50%+ of the network,

Someone could have 90% hashrate and as long as he doesn't mess with the chain rules you've nothing to worry about.

I hope AM forks the blockchain and proportionally transfers all BTC to their shareholders.

Then Bitcoin shall be known henceforth as FriedCoin. Grin

Then the devs would change the algorithm to exclude the ASICMINER devices and continue from the fork before they did that ...
i.e. no it wont happen.

gsan

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Quote from: IIzzII on May 09, 2013, 04:17:22 PM

I tried asking this in one of the auction threads but got no response, is there any way to verify the people auctioning off direct shares? I would like to make a significant purchase but simply can't due to lack of information. Can someone at ASICMiner (with the seller's permission of course) confirm shares being auctioned are legitimate?

If in doubt, use an escrow. Here is a thread about forum escrows: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/escrow-list-108716 (may be outdated).

Basically, direct share owners are identified by the Bitcoin addresses on file with friedcat. These addresses receive 1 Satoshi per share every week, which you can view through any Bitcoin block explorer. You can use this data to derive the number of shares the address owns at the time of dividend payment.

Always ask the seller to digitally sign the intent of sale using this address (using bitcoin-qt or a similar tool of your choosing), especially if you chose not to use an escrow. This way, you will know that they are the real recipient of dividends to this address, and not declaring someone else's address as their own. Also, if clearly worded, you may use such a signed intent of sale document to resolve any dispute that may occur.

Again, if in doubt, use an escrow.

gmouse

newbie

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Quote from: Transisto on May 10, 2013, 12:32:19 AM

Please stop being worried about an single entity having 50%+ of the network,

Someone could have 90% hashrate and as long as he doesn't mess with the chain rules you've nothing to worry about.

That statement is not even remotely accurate.

The market does observe, and is sensitive to, what entity controls what % of hashrate.

All it takes is perception. The fact that such an entity is virtuous is of no matter; we need to keep any one miner well below the threshold that an average, ignorant as they may be, observer deems as an acceptable % of the network hash in total.

lophie

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on May 10, 2013, 01:55:03 AM

FriedCoin

An alt coin with 1:1 to a real ASICMINER share. Would make sense more than the other wannabe alt coins

Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1117. (Read 3917058 times)