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Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1166. (Read 3917058 times)

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
...a very nice update

Thanks for providing this overview, I'm certain it is extremely valuable to new investors.

.b

Thanks. I would like that all errors and missing infos are being put into. So that maybe a sticky thread could be made out of it.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
hashrate on btcguild is 7.4 TH/s for some time now. Mini deployment? :-)

EDIT: just hit 7.5, definitely deploying, hooray!
Hopefully so, and then friedcat is waiting to finish for the update.  That's what I am hoping!
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
hashrate on btcguild is 7.4 TH/s for some time now. Mini deployment? :-)

EDIT: just hit 7.5, definitely deploying, hooray!
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
http://coin.furuknap.net/
...a very nice update

Thanks for providing this overview, I'm certain it is extremely valuable to new investors.

.b
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
I need update so baaad...  Angry
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
3. Allowed users to convert real shares to PT shares for simplicity in trading (and you can turn PT into real shares... minimum 250?).

Minimum 250 shares with deadterras PT. But he wrote me that number is not set in stone, a bit lower possible if deadterra is ok with it. Burnsides PT has minimum 1.

Because people often ask such questions i made a small overview about the pros/cons of having real shares or PT-Shares and the pros/cons of the both PTs.

Please correct any wrong or missing infos. I would like to post this post in a new thread to cover all the questions "where to buy", differences PT and so on...

Asicminer-Shares to Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares Comparison:

Asicminer-Shares:
Pro:
* Direct Contract with friedcat
* No Fees (Only donations for escrow while trading shares, if one was used. But thats not needed if youre greedy.)
* No delayed dividends compared to passthrough shares
Con:
* Harder to trade / Slower access to bitcoins/shares. Find an auction, start a thread or check the orderbook thread that is dead now. But maybe you find a relatively new offer in the orderbook thread and you can contact the user via pm about this.
* Possibility that you have to buy starting from a certain amount of shares, for example starting from 10 or 50. Means you need more money to invest often.
* Escrow needed for security in trading (there are free escrows, but a donation would be nice)

Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares:
Pro:
* Easily tradeable on the exchanges / Faster access to bitcoins/shares
Con:
* Fees
* Delayed dividends compared to non-passthrough shares
* No direct contract with friedcat but with burnside/deadterra, adding another small layer of insecurity
* Bound to an exchange, adding another small layer of insecurity

Asicminer-Passthroughs Comparison:

Burnsides AM-PT on btct.co
Pro:
* AM-PT: Usually Higher Shareprice for sellers
* AM-PT: Change PT-Shares into real shares starting from 1 share
* btct.co: "Deposits: Free | Withdrawals: 0 BTC FLAT FEE | Transfers (BTC): Free | Transfers (Assets): Free | Issue Dividends: Free"
* AM-PT: Usually dividends less delayed than AM-PT on bitfunder.com
Con:
* AM-PT: Usually Higher Shareprice for buyers
* AM-PT: 0.5 BTC fee for exchanging AM-PT to AM-Shares or the other way around. Per transaction, not per Share!
* AM-PT: "A management fee of X% will be levied on each dividend payment where X is determined by the number of shares currently managed by the pass through.  For under 1000 shares, the management fee shall be 3%.  For over 1000 shares, the management fee shall be 2%.  For over 3000 shares, the management fee shall be 1.5%.  For over 5000 shares the management fee shall be 1%.  For over 10000 shares the management fee shall be 0.5%."
* btct.co: Trading-Fees: "Trades using 2FA (Buyer): 0.2% (Trade Value X 0.002)
Trades using 2FA (Seller): 0.2% (Trade Value X 0.002)
Trades not using 2FA (Buyer): 0.25% (Trade Value X 0.0025)
Trades not using 2FA (Seller): 0.25% (Trade Value X 0.0025)"

DeadTerras AM-PT on bitfunder.com
Pro:
* AM-PT: Usually Lower Shareprice for buyers
* AM-PT: Each G.ASICMINER-PT share has the right to 100% of the dividends of 1 ASICMINER share. (No management fee)
* AM-PT: Transferring AM-PT-Shares to AM-Shares or the other way around have no fee
* bitfunder.com: Buying shares has no fee.
* bitfunder.com: No other fess than selling fees.
Con:
* AM-PT: Usually Lower Shareprice for sellers
* AM-PT: Change PT-Shares into real shares starting from 250 shares (not set in stone, a bit lower possible if deadterra is ok with it)
* bitfunder.com: Selling fees range between between 1% and 0.5%(or lower with discounts) based on your account tier.
* AM-PT: Usually dividends more delayed than AM-PT on btct.co
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Keep it Simple. Every Bit Matters.
I'm sure it all be sorted out, Friedcat has done an excellent job in dealing with share trading since the collapse of GLBSE.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
Invest & Earn: https://cloudthink.io
I also bought shares in that auction, however because I bought a big chunk and I paid promptly he split me off into a separate transaction.

I can tell you that whatever happened... he is honest and is not trying to scam you I would imagine, as I did get my dividends, and I am sure he will forward you any missed dividends if he ended up still holding the shares at the time.  He has transferred at least 705 shares of his out in the last week according to the blockchain.  What address did you send to him and friedcat to receive dividands at?
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 501
Hmm. I bought some shares from an auction [ineededausername] and he has confirmed all share transactions have taken place. I am yet to receive mine or associated dividends. I have PM friedcat also and no reply.

any ideas?
full member
Activity: 223
Merit: 100
Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?


The exchange has to prove itself to be reliable, robust and trustworthy before AM is officially traded there.
BTC.TC seems to be on the good path towards this goal.

legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?
Because friedcat decided to not relist shares on an exchange after GLBSE went down.

And I don't blame him. Took me a long while to get over the anger before I relisted DMC.
sr. member
Activity: 305
Merit: 250
Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?

Because the original IPO was on GLBSE and after the whole fiasco there, friedcat/bitfoundation decided to just set up their own exchange. They still have not done so (and I'm not sure they even care at this point - focus on getting hardware up and running), so the only manner of trading real shares is to email friedcat saying "I would like to transfer X shares from X address to Y address" from your email on file.

That is obviously tedious, and slower (since an Escrow might be required/wanted as well).

Thus - Passthrough's are set up. The 2 PT operators did the following:
1. Created the PT
2. Optioned the purchase of shares from large share holders (I think this was on both of them)
3. Allowed users to convert real shares to PT shares for simplicity in trading (and you can turn PT into real shares... minimum 250?).
newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 0
Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?
Because friedcat decided to not relist shares on an exchange after GLBSE went down.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1001
https://gliph.me/hUF
Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?
Because AM will have their own exchange... maybe... sometime.

You can transfer your "real" shares to any PT.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?
full member
Activity: 219
Merit: 100
Where are you seeing divs? I haven't received any on BTCT. What was the div-ex date?


We're seeing the div's on the "Privately" owned shares (the ones outside of the passthrough... couldn't think of the correct term). When there are 6 confirmations && the PT owner is free/online they send the dividends through to the users. BTCT is usually same day, and BitFunder takes 0-2 days IIRC.

Thanks!

Any benefits to holding your shares privately?

How do we know the "cutoff" - from when you must have shares, privately or in BTCT, to get paid the Div?
An Ex Div time, effectively?


Benefit of holding shares privately... in my opinion:
- Faster dividends (no passthrough delay)
- No chance of the PT owner running away (the PT owners are trustworthy based on my readings and experience with them)
- No chance of the exchange bugging out/getting hacked (I'm not a security person, so I don't even know how/if this would work or is an issue)
- I get Satoshi's to get me F5'ing this thread like crazy... or is this a con?

No idea about cutoff, you'd have to ask Friedcat about that. The satoshi's are paid out at around 8-9am PST Wednesdays. You have to have the share by that point in order to receive the dividend.

Oh, the satoshi's are used to let you know how many shares you have on that address.

The cutoff will be "has the dividend been paid yet?"  If not, cutoff has not been passed.  These exchanges and runners are not advanced enough to do ex-dividend date or any such stuff(And they probably shouldn't, as this won't become a big deal for awhile).
sr. member
Activity: 305
Merit: 250
Where are you seeing divs? I haven't received any on BTCT. What was the div-ex date?


We're seeing the div's on the "Privately" owned shares (the ones outside of the passthrough... couldn't think of the correct term). When there are 6 confirmations && the PT owner is free/online they send the dividends through to the users. BTCT is usually same day, and BitFunder takes 0-2 days IIRC.

Thanks!

Any benefits to holding your shares privately?

How do we know the "cutoff" - from when you must have shares, privately or in BTCT, to get paid the Div?
An Ex Div time, effectively?


Benefit of holding shares privately... in my opinion:
- Faster dividends (no passthrough delay)
- No chance of the PT owner running away (the PT owners are trustworthy based on my readings and experience with them)
- No chance of the exchange bugging out/getting hacked (I'm not a security person, so I don't even know how/if this would work or is an issue)
- I get Satoshi's to get me F5'ing this thread like crazy... or is this a con?

No idea about cutoff, you'd have to ask Friedcat about that. The satoshi's are paid out at around 8-9am PST Wednesdays. You have to have the share by that point in order to receive the dividend.

Oh, the satoshi's are used to let you know how many shares you have on that address.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
Where are you seeing divs? I haven't received any on BTCT. What was the div-ex date?


We're seeing the div's on the "Privately" owned shares (the ones outside of the passthrough... couldn't think of the correct term). When there are 6 confirmations && the PT owner is free/online they send the dividends through to the users. BTCT is usually same day, and BitFunder takes 0-2 days IIRC.

Thanks!

Any benefits to holding your shares privately?

How do we know the "cutoff" - from when you must have shares, privately or in BTCT, to get paid the Div?
An Ex Div time, effectively?
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 252
largest divident since i got the shares, 3 months ago Grin
thanks FC

Not in BTC, few months ago the dividends were more than 3x higher Wink

In € or $ maybe..
In €/$ it was higher 2 weeks ago, about $250 / BTC


(Today's dividend was equal to the IPO share price in $/€  Cool)
hero member
Activity: 607
Merit: 500
largest divident since i got the shares, 3 months ago Grin
thanks FC
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