ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 125.

Melbustus

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 23, 2014, 12:38:13 PM

Quote from: hdbuck on November 23, 2014, 12:30:05 PM

pure noob question here but if HF patent is so kul, why they selling it instead of producing?? i mean, not that previous HF chips missed their spec too..

There were no "previous HF chips."

HF only made one chip, and it greatly exceeded spec (400GH spec vs 750GH given enough power).

Then they ran out of money. Their misfortune is providing AM with the opportunity to catch up and dominate the 16nm frontier.

Sorry, not gonna let you sugercoat these guys, even though your core assertion is likely correct.

They "ran out of money" because their angry ~~victims~~customers sued the pants off of them. While the silicon itself was indeed a solid design capable of outperforming their target spec, I sit here today with a HashFast BabyJet in my office running at *exactly* advertised spec with zero headroom whatsoever (despite much hype from the company about how overclockable the system would be).

As you very well know, the reason is because they sucked beyond belief at absolutely every other aspect of the business: board design, logistics, customer service, FTC compliance, funds management, PR, customer service, strategy, damage control, legal matters, board design (yes, they sucked at this at least twice), and last but not least: customer service.

It's a real shame that despite HF being good at chip design, they turned out to be far far better at pissing off customers and screwing up PCBs.

freedomno1

legendary

Activity: 1806

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Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Quote from: nwfella on November 24, 2014, 04:19:13 PM

Quote from: arnuschky on November 24, 2014, 02:05:31 PM

Quote from: btcbot on November 24, 2014, 12:05:06 PM

Divs!

0.0000543

So they really went for the minimum possible.

Funny that they fell for the old misinformation about the dust threshold being 5430 satoshis.
This means that people with 1 share will not get a dividend, as the transaction will be rejected.

Not quite. Just received my dividend payment on my two shares of AM100 for far less than 5430 satoshi's.

Havelock must be crediting user-accounts off-chain after they get dividend payment batch from asicminer. Off-chain transactions aren't subject to the 5430 satoshi limitation per transaction.

With havelock it probably makes sense to send a batch payment to some address
Then they can set it up internally to distribute the coins they tiny divs all the time.
(What assigned addresses are for after all) and if you bunch them all together it processes fine

Ah right this one
https://blockchain.info/address/1J5fvfUrDcZj8rrpVHMgn8u7sXee84QkPd

Smallest payment from the sent list I see is 543 sat all divisible by it for the most part so that is the confirmed div amount.
https://blockchain.info/address/1H7FpBV8huVmPvt5eRzszAkgnERH2FaWvq

nwfella

legendary

Activity: 1610

Merit: 1000

Well hello there!

Quote from: arnuschky on November 24, 2014, 02:05:31 PM

Quote from: btcbot on November 24, 2014, 12:05:06 PM

Divs!

0.0000543

So they really went for the minimum possible.

Funny that they fell for the old misinformation about the dust threshold being 5430 satoshis.
This means that people with 1 share will not get a dividend, as the transaction will be rejected.

Not quite. Just received my dividend payment on my two shares of AM100 for far less than 5430 satoshi's.

Havelock must be crediting user-accounts off-chain after they get dividend payment batch from asicminer. Off-chain transactions aren't subject to the 5430 satoshi limitation per transaction.

neilol-real

full member

Activity: 142

Merit: 100

Quote from: arnuschky on November 24, 2014, 02:05:31 PM

Quote from: btcbot on November 24, 2014, 12:05:06 PM

Divs!

0.0000543

So they really went for the minimum possible.

Funny that they fell for the old misinformation about the dust threshold being 5430 satoshis.
This means that people with 1 share will not get a dividend, as the transaction will be rejected.

Aim was to update public record. That is management telling you the best use of funds is plow-back.

runam0k

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1001

Touchdown

Test div just landed on Havelock. Grin

arnuschky

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 502

Quote from: btcbot on November 24, 2014, 12:05:06 PM

Divs!

0.0000543

So they really went for the minimum possible.

Funny that they fell for the old misinformation about the dust threshold being 5430 satoshis.
This means that people with 1 share will not get a dividend, as the transaction will be rejected.

FUR11

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

FURring bitcoin up since 1762

Quote from: EternalWingsofGod on November 24, 2014, 12:08:13 PM

Quote from: btcbot on November 24, 2014, 12:05:06 PM

Divs!

0.0000543

Was wondering why the share price went to 0.12 on the full shares
But I don't see the dividend announcment on havelock to confirm it was a test so not sure if it was a joke or legit
(Not holding any direct shares)

May take a couple minutes (hours). AM needs to pay the divs to everybody and as soon as the transactions are confirmed, Havelock is going to credit them to the shareholders of AM1 (and AM100) shares accordingly. Don't worry

Dexter770221

legendary

Activity: 1029

Merit: 1000

Quote from: btcbot on November 24, 2014, 12:05:06 PM

Divs!

0.0000543

If true, I'm surprised. I was expecting 1k satoshi at beginning of December...

EternalWingsofGod

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

Quote from: btcbot on November 24, 2014, 12:05:06 PM

Divs!

0.0000543

Was wondering why the share price went to 0.12 on the full shares
But I don't see the dividend announcment on havelock to confirm it was a test so not sure if it was a joke or legit
(Not holding any direct shares)

btcbot

full member

Activity: 151

Merit: 105

Divs!

0.0000543

arnuschky

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 502

Quote from: Dexter770221 on November 24, 2014, 07:48:37 AM

Quote from: arnuschky on November 24, 2014, 07:39:27 AM

Quote from: CanaryInTheMine on November 24, 2014, 01:01:17 AM

If all goes well with test/sample chips, prototype should be made by mid-December

Just to clarify: you are speaking about ASICminer's gen4 here, right? Was that known before, and I just missed it, or is this new knowledge released by you Canary? If the latter, what's your source?

Got confused with all the Hashfast talk here.

Few pages back FC said that tape out of Gen4 is done and they expecting chips December 16th.

Thanks. I completely missed his Oct 24 post. This puts a lot more confidence in me, everything he said is quite reasonable and makes sense.

I am in for the long haul, so I don't care much about dividends. I much prefer ASICminer remaining afloat (and gen4 being solid) over receiving a bit of pocket money now. That they made mistakes in gen3 is unfortunate, but expected - everybody makes mistakes. Doesn't impact me considerably as an investor as long as the company's future is solid. If they won't learn from their mistakes, however, I am out.

Dexter770221

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Activity: 1029

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Quote from: arnuschky on November 24, 2014, 07:39:27 AM

Quote from: CanaryInTheMine on November 24, 2014, 01:01:17 AM

If all goes well with test/sample chips, prototype should be made by mid-December

Just to clarify: you are speaking about ASICminer's gen4 here, right? Was that known before, and I just missed it, or is this new knowledge released by you Canary? If the latter, what's your source?

Got confused with all the Hashfast talk here.

Few pages back FC said that tape out of Gen4 is done and they expecting chips December 16th.

arnuschky

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 502

Quote from: CanaryInTheMine on November 24, 2014, 01:01:17 AM

If all goes well with test/sample chips, prototype should be made by mid-December

Just to clarify: you are speaking about ASICminer's gen4 here, right? Was that known before, and I just missed it, or is this new knowledge released by you Canary? If the latter, what's your source?

Got confused with all the Hashfast talk here.

CanaryInTheMine

donator

Activity: 2352

Merit: 1060

between a rock and a block!

If all goes well with test/sample chips, prototype should be made by mid-December

xhomerx10

legendary

Activity: 3808

Merit: 7912

Quote from: chriswilmer on November 23, 2014, 07:33:28 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on November 23, 2014, 12:41:18 PM

I'd love to know how HF acquired a "provisional patent" considering no such thing exists.

What do you mean provisional patents don't exist? People file provisional patents all the time (at least in the USA). Am I misunderstanding you?

There is no such thing as a provisional patent. There is however a provisional application. This particular application expires after 12 months and does not automatically mature into a patent. In fact, the PTO (patent and trademark office) does not examine provisional applications. A regular application must be filed within 12 months of the provisional application AND the provisional application must contain sufficient support for the regular application. If they didn't do the provisional correctly, it wont help you and also you are running out of time (perhaps have already) to file a regular application.

iCEBREAKER

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Activity: 2156

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: jimmothy on November 23, 2014, 12:41:18 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 23, 2014, 12:27:38 PM

the battle for 4th gen ASIC dominance is happening at 16nm. HF's 3d finFET GN2 design is just waiting for a firm like AM to buy it and put it to work.

By put to work I assume you mean completely redesign the chip/pcb and hope it works?

Quote

Does AM have any provisional patents? HF does...

I'd love to know how HF acquired a "provisional patent" considering no such thing exists.

The 16nm GN2 chip/board designs haven't been finished yet, so I'm not sure how anyone could "redesign" them. Tongue

And here, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=provisional+patent

chriswilmer

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Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Quote from: jimmothy on November 23, 2014, 12:41:18 PM

I'd love to know how HF acquired a "provisional patent" considering no such thing exists.

What do you mean provisional patents don't exist? People file provisional patents all the time (at least in the USA). Am I misunderstanding you?

hashie

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DATABLOCKCHAIN.IO SALE IS LIVE | MVP @ DBC.IO

iCEBREAKER do you work for hashfail?!

jimmothy

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 23, 2014, 12:27:38 PM

AM's 40nm design missed its spec by a lot. HF's GN1 28nm exceeded it's spec and the GN1.5 respin will be even better.

The fact that AM failed and still came out with a superior chip is quite the achievement.

Quote

As for GH/wafer, I don't think either of us knows which is superior. But I'm sure you will pretend you do, just to be a Negative Nancy as usual. Wink

Without a doubt hashfast has better GH/wafer. But because it requires an expensive board/cooling it is not competitive. Even if the chip was free I doubt they could sell hardware for 1 btc/gh (at 0.7 w/gh).

Quote

Regardless, the battle for 4th gen ASIC dominance is happening at 16nm. HF's 3d finFET GN2 design is just waiting for a firm like AM to buy it and put it to work.

By put to work I assume you mean completely redesign the chip/pcb and hope it works?

Quote

Does AM have any provisional patents? HF does...

I'd love to know how HF acquired a "provisional patent" considering no such thing exists.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: hdbuck on November 23, 2014, 12:30:05 PM

pure noob question here but if HF patent is so kul, why they selling it instead of producing?? i mean, not that previous HF chips missed their spec too..

There were no "previous HF chips."

HF only made one chip, and it greatly exceeded spec (400GH spec vs 750GH given enough power).

Then they ran out of money. Their misfortune is providing AM with the opportunity to catch up and dominate the 16nm frontier.

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