Meanwhile - regarding the ASIC 51% discussion ...
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1218245
Seriously, it's not gonna happen.
Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1320. (Read 3917591 times)
September 25, 2012, 07:18:24 AM
September 25, 2012, 06:47:46 AM
If 1 not before seen IP starts hashing away at 40% of the network speed people are going to worry... If however all pools still have the same proportional hashrate then what is there to worry about ? Or who will know this comes from 1 farm ?
What strange world it would be where people can more easily see blocks broadcast from a single IP than read this thread, or listen to what I and now everyone else reading this who doesn't have a vested interest in seeing ASICMINER succeed are going to tell people. :-) Where does most of the core technical information get disseminated from? IRC, currently. And where do normal people get their information from? The technical people. Unless ASICMINER suddenly starts operating completely in secret, why and how would you hide your activities considering the GLBSE stock prices are directly tied to public information?
All this together means that spreading out your hashrate to other pools is basically pointless. Difficulty will increase, people will wonder why, and everyone who knows ASICMINER's schedules is going to tell them, "Oh, that extra 12TH is ASICMINER." There is no hiding in multiple pools. It's an illusion, and will be 99% transparent.
But yes, If Graet (nothing personal 
) thinks up an elaborate scheme, hacks his bitcoind, DDOSes all other pools and ASICMINER points all its hashing power to OzCoin, then we have a problem... but what is keeping Graet from doing the same now ? (or do I misunderstand you?)
) thinks up an elaborate scheme, hacks his bitcoind, DDOSes all other pools and ASICMINER points all its hashing power to OzCoin, then we have a problem... but what is keeping Graet from doing the same now ? (or do I misunderstand you?)DDoS not required. What's keeping graet from doing it now? Absolutely nothing, he already has the IPO money now, doesn't he?
To alleviate your concerns about cannibalizing your own customers, here's a quote from Friedcat on expanding ASICMINERs mining operation
1. When we begin to sell products to customers, limitlessly expansion will harm the buyers' motivation, hence the revenue via selling.
2. If may be better to keep the revenue for R&D of the next-generation of products than expand too much with the original technology, especially that we want to stay in the mining ASIC industry and help securing the network in the long run.
An additional question: Why does the company not want to or sees it feasible to expand beyond 50TH/s for their own mining farm ?
Is that an 'effort' / location constraint ?
Thanks
It may be feasible, but there are some more facts to consider:Is that an 'effort' / location constraint ?
Thanks
1. When we begin to sell products to customers, limitlessly expansion will harm the buyers' motivation, hence the revenue via selling.
2. If may be better to keep the revenue for R&D of the next-generation of products than expand too much with the original technology, especially that we want to stay in the mining ASIC industry and help securing the network in the long run.
This doesn't really alleviate my concern: this validates it. friedcat is already aware of this problem. What he's really saying here is, "We're only cannibalizing our customers a little bit."
So the money's already there: you're using the mining as a force-multiplier. It's, much as the order to sell the bitcoins, a gambling effort with an unknown payoff, and the gamble is with investors' money.
Perhaps someone thought that they couldn't get full NRE+R&D from just an IPO? In that case, why open it up to the public @ GLBSE at all? That's just greedy.
havent read all the thread but just wanted to point out I am involved in ZERO IPO's i guess this was just a typo
best wishes
Graet
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he meant Friedcat
September 25, 2012, 06:36:00 AM
If 1 not before seen IP starts hashing away at 40% of the network speed people are going to worry... If however all pools still have the same proportional hashrate then what is there to worry about ? Or who will know this comes from 1 farm ?
What strange world it would be where people can more easily see blocks broadcast from a single IP than read this thread, or listen to what I and now everyone else reading this who doesn't have a vested interest in seeing ASICMINER succeed are going to tell people. :-) Where does most of the core technical information get disseminated from? IRC, currently. And where do normal people get their information from? The technical people. Unless ASICMINER suddenly starts operating completely in secret, why and how would you hide your activities considering the GLBSE stock prices are directly tied to public information?
All this together means that spreading out your hashrate to other pools is basically pointless. Difficulty will increase, people will wonder why, and everyone who knows ASICMINER's schedules is going to tell them, "Oh, that extra 12TH is ASICMINER." There is no hiding in multiple pools. It's an illusion, and will be 99% transparent.
But yes, If Graet (nothing personal ) thinks up an elaborate scheme, hacks his bitcoind, DDOSes all other pools and ASICMINER points all its hashing power to OzCoin, then we have a problem... but what is keeping Graet from doing the same now ? (or do I misunderstand you?)
) thinks up an elaborate scheme, hacks his bitcoind, DDOSes all other pools and ASICMINER points all its hashing power to OzCoin, then we have a problem... but what is keeping Graet from doing the same now ? (or do I misunderstand you?)DDoS not required. What's keeping graet from doing it now? Absolutely nothing, he already has the IPO money now, doesn't he?
To alleviate your concerns about cannibalizing your own customers, here's a quote from Friedcat on expanding ASICMINERs mining operation
1. When we begin to sell products to customers, limitlessly expansion will harm the buyers' motivation, hence the revenue via selling.
2. If may be better to keep the revenue for R&D of the next-generation of products than expand too much with the original technology, especially that we want to stay in the mining ASIC industry and help securing the network in the long run.
An additional question: Why does the company not want to or sees it feasible to expand beyond 50TH/s for their own mining farm ?
Is that an 'effort' / location constraint ?
Thanks
It may be feasible, but there are some more facts to consider:Is that an 'effort' / location constraint ?
Thanks
1. When we begin to sell products to customers, limitlessly expansion will harm the buyers' motivation, hence the revenue via selling.
2. If may be better to keep the revenue for R&D of the next-generation of products than expand too much with the original technology, especially that we want to stay in the mining ASIC industry and help securing the network in the long run.
This doesn't really alleviate my concern: this validates it. friedcat is already aware of this problem. What he's really saying here is, "We're only cannibalizing our customers a little bit."
So the money's already there: you're using the mining as a force-multiplier. It's, much as the order to sell the bitcoins, a gambling effort with an unknown payoff, and the gamble is with investors' money.
Perhaps someone thought that they couldn't get full NRE+R&D from just an IPO? In that case, why open it up to the public @ GLBSE at all? That's just greedy.
havent read all the thread but just wanted to point out I am involved in ZERO IPO's i guess this was just a typo
best wishes
Graet
September 24, 2012, 08:36:42 AM
I don't understand why you analyze it that much. Know what I would do if I couldn't pay my rent right now? She assets I own at a price it will sell instantly. Plus I bought 2200 shares at 0.88, so it would be a 10% or so profit at 0.1. There is many reasons to sell 10-20% below current offer, one of which is manipulation, which is illegal but also mostly harmless and hard to prove in this kind of case.
When you bought at 0.88btc that probably was right at ipo. Its a real good trade because its the exact amount that would include the 12.5% on top that was offered. Thats probably why this price happened. I doubt this will happen again.
Youre right... when someone bought at 0.88 or bought at ipo with getting 12.5% then 0.1btc would be a profit. Maybe this person doesnt think that the share has potential to give him even higher returns and planned to buy including the 12.5% and sell it over time. So he doesnt have to take the risk that the chips dont work while he had made a sure profit in the meanwhile. Or he thinks its better to have invested less money.
Ok... i think it sounds like a good explaination that someone bought many shares at ipo including the 12.5% and planned to sell it before the chips come out to make a safe profit without risks. So he is holding a big number of shares and is selling it over time.
Only downside to this is... it doesnt make so much sense. He could set an offer for 20.000 shares at 1.1 and im sure he would have made more money with this while even saving the glbse-fees in the meanwhile. Dunno...
September 24, 2012, 04:18:43 AM
I dont know. It happened a good couple of times now that someone sold shares for 0.1btc. Ok, maybe he was frightened, but short after a good message in this thread?
It doesnt make much sense to me. I mean its probably the same person otherwise i dont see really why so many different persons should buy at 0.1 and sell at different times for the same amount.
Im only a bit suspicious about this. At least the seller has to be one of the buyers from ipo because the number of shares isnt changing. So i think it cant be some kind of scam does it? I mean i dont see a hint that anything at this project is suspicious but bitcoin investments are a minefield.
/Theorise on
I mean when someone wants to run a scam he maybe makes a plan that looks like much money so that the investors think that he cant afford to lose the much money. While in fact he is targetting to get away with a small portion of money. So he can hide this fact because all think the big money insures it. So maybe at ipo sell shares and, because you are the owner, you move some shares to yourself. Then stop selling so that customers think thats cool... he doesnt buy more even though he could. Strong sign its not a scam. A scammer would take as much money as possible.
Then over time the shares that were moved to the private account are sold. But only to the point to let the course be stable. But you can earn money and run. All looks safe and normal while one can run with the money at some point. Leaving behind shares that never were planned to have value. Only to let investors think the securityissuer has something to lose.
/Theorise off
Im only thinking around what these sells are. They dont make sense to me. Against my theorising speaks that none of my 1000 shares were bought. I mean they could have been bought without letting the course fall. Or are the shares all sold?
Or maybe the sells for 0.1 was a mistake because the seller simply calculated the amount of shares in the bidsection and sold a round number of shares. But no... there were 100BTC sold for 0.1BTC. Thats no error. And unfortunately exactly the amount for the 1000 shares i offered. *grmbl* glbse...
I don't understand why you analyze it that much. Know what I would do if I couldn't pay my rent right now? She assets I own at a price it will sell instantly. Plus I bought 2200 shares at 0.88, so it would be a 10% or so profit at 0.1. There is many reasons to sell 10-20% below current offer, one of which is manipulation, which is illegal but also mostly harmless and hard to prove in this kind of case. It doesnt make much sense to me. I mean its probably the same person otherwise i dont see really why so many different persons should buy at 0.1 and sell at different times for the same amount.
Im only a bit suspicious about this. At least the seller has to be one of the buyers from ipo because the number of shares isnt changing. So i think it cant be some kind of scam does it? I mean i dont see a hint that anything at this project is suspicious but bitcoin investments are a minefield.
/Theorise on
I mean when someone wants to run a scam he maybe makes a plan that looks like much money so that the investors think that he cant afford to lose the much money. While in fact he is targetting to get away with a small portion of money. So he can hide this fact because all think the big money insures it. So maybe at ipo sell shares and, because you are the owner, you move some shares to yourself. Then stop selling so that customers think thats cool... he doesnt buy more even though he could. Strong sign its not a scam. A scammer would take as much money as possible.
Then over time the shares that were moved to the private account are sold. But only to the point to let the course be stable. But you can earn money and run. All looks safe and normal while one can run with the money at some point. Leaving behind shares that never were planned to have value. Only to let investors think the securityissuer has something to lose.
/Theorise off
Im only thinking around what these sells are. They dont make sense to me. Against my theorising speaks that none of my 1000 shares were bought. I mean they could have been bought without letting the course fall. Or are the shares all sold?
Or maybe the sells for 0.1 was a mistake because the seller simply calculated the amount of shares in the bidsection and sold a round number of shares. But no... there were 100BTC sold for 0.1BTC. Thats no error. And unfortunately exactly the amount for the 1000 shares i offered. *grmbl* glbse...
September 23, 2012, 11:59:58 PM
Move with the market. When I see multiple players looking to either liquidate large positions, or short sell an asset I'm holding, it's a good day to sell it down.
I am curious. What investment logic do you exploit here? What you said only makes sense if the players act as trend setters and you either want to liquidate anyway or re-buy at a lower price.
September 23, 2012, 11:46:10 PM
Move with the market. When I see multiple players looking to either liquidate large positions, or short sell an asset I'm holding, it's a good day to sell it down. If I really like it long term, it's not in my trading portfolio - so it doesn't get sold unless there's a long term signal.
This asset is too high risk to make it to the long term portfolio This move down is welcome in my book - much more active trading down here.
This asset is too high risk to make it to the long term portfolio
This move down is welcome in my book - much more active trading down here. September 23, 2012, 09:43:22 PM
But whats the reason for this solds? I mean when he bought at ipo at 0.1btc he could make some money when selling it for 1.3BTC or so. 30% plus. But for 0.1? What reason is behind this?
You could ask the same question for anything else which has a positive outlook but declines in price (e.g. bitcoin). The reason is strong hands and weak hands. Strong hands absorb and have no selling pressure. Weak hands acquire for short term and then either are forced to liquidate (e.g. they have to cover debts) or find better opportunities to invest (opportunity cost of holding a share which doesn't pay dividends yet can be significant). Weak hands ususally speculate that the price goes up in the short term.
Strong hands can become weak hands and vice versa for various reasons...
September 23, 2012, 06:08:11 PM
Is there some way to right this wrong? GLBSE knows who obtained those shares.
Recourse was pursued with the GLBSE operator and appeal to those following this thread for a repurchase of the shares coming from the compromise.
GLBSE operator does not intervene in these cases. To his credit, Jatarul sold back the shares he received from his outstanding bid being filled as a result of the compromise.
September 23, 2012, 06:02:28 PM
Is there some way to right this wrong? GLBSE knows who obtained those shares.
September 23, 2012, 05:54:27 PM
I dont know. It happened a good couple of times now that someone sold shares for 0.1btc. Ok, maybe he was frightened, but short after a good message in this thread?
...
...
maybe it is profitable for someone:
Low of the day in ASICMINER on GLBSE 0.00021 
Someone's account got hacked or something ?
Someone's account got hacked or something ?
Yep
The largest beneficiary of my account compromise was for approx. 2400 shares of ASICMINER.
While this amount might have been purchased in coordination with the perpetrator for later sale I think it's unlikely.
There was a significant period of time between when the 2400 ask was placed and then purchased. This does not support the theory of profit taking related to a prior conspiracy.
September 23, 2012, 04:12:41 PM
I have a theory about why the price may have dropped. It's only a theory - but does tie in nicely with the timing of things.
Here it is:
1. OBSI.HRPT is widely believed to be a ponzi that is about to crash and burn.
2. If indeed OBSI.HRPT is a ponzi then it's pretty safe to say his other companies are also scams.
3. If OBSI.HRPT is about to collapse and is a ponzi then he'd not want to leave assets on GLBSE that nefario could freeze/return to his shareholders.
4. FACT: Obsi traded a bunch of own shares in OBSI.ABMO for thousands of ASICMINER shares from DMC. That trade made good sense (for obsi) whether or not the HRPT is a ponzi.
5. If the above are true then you'd expect Obsi to be offloading those ASICMINER shares and withdrawing the BTC.
This is only a theory - but makes perfect sense (and the timing is right) IF OBSI.HRPT is a ponzi (which you'll all have to make your own minds up on). If true it means buying ASIC shares now is a good idea - as the drop isn't caused by anything related to this share.
Disclosure: I hold a modest number of ASICMINER shares (and absolutely zero in anything Obsi related).
Here it is:
1. OBSI.HRPT is widely believed to be a ponzi that is about to crash and burn.
2. If indeed OBSI.HRPT is a ponzi then it's pretty safe to say his other companies are also scams.
3. If OBSI.HRPT is about to collapse and is a ponzi then he'd not want to leave assets on GLBSE that nefario could freeze/return to his shareholders.
4. FACT: Obsi traded a bunch of own shares in OBSI.ABMO for thousands of ASICMINER shares from DMC. That trade made good sense (for obsi) whether or not the HRPT is a ponzi.
5. If the above are true then you'd expect Obsi to be offloading those ASICMINER shares and withdrawing the BTC.
This is only a theory - but makes perfect sense (and the timing is right) IF OBSI.HRPT is a ponzi (which you'll all have to make your own minds up on). If true it means buying ASIC shares now is a good idea - as the drop isn't caused by anything related to this share.
Disclosure: I hold a modest number of ASICMINER shares (and absolutely zero in anything Obsi related).
September 23, 2012, 03:54:14 PM
ZETA-MINING issuer was trading his shareholders 1 of their ZETA shares for 1.5 shares of ASICMINER. He was doing this to offer his shareholders a form of asic upgrade because some of them were clamoring for it. Perhaps some people traded and then wanted to sell for an immediate profit at 0.1? (re: value of 1.5 ASICMINER shares was higher than 1 ZETA-MINING share for awhile).
Yes, I confirm that. I am heavily invested in ASICMINER (with my portion of shares locked by friedcat) and since my FPGA mining farm is not BFL based, I am offering an asset swap of 2 ZETA-MINING bonds for 3 ASICMINER shares as kind of good will ASIC upgrade path. Quite some investors made use of this offer so far and I swapped 6k+ ASICMINER shares since beginning of September.Based on the price history there was only one short period of time where it was profitable to sell ASICMINER shares right after a swap, which might have caused the price dip from ~0.14 down to 0.1 we saw on 09-06. Not saying that this is what happened, but that the current dips most probably were not caused by my former investors dumping shares after swaps - that's not the idea of an ASIC upgrade.
Anyhow, there were nice opportunities to get into this promising venture. If I had more liquid BTC, I'd buy every share below 0.12 right away, but sadly other strong hands took the cheap ones meanwhile
September 23, 2012, 02:19:47 PM
ZETA-MINING issuer was trading his shareholders 1 of their ZETA shares for 1.5 shares of ASICMINER. He was doing this to offer his shareholders a form of asic upgrade because some of them were clamoring for it. Perhaps some people traded and then wanted to sell for an immediate profit at 0.1? (re: value of 1.5 ASICMINER shares was higher than 1 ZETA-MINING share for awhile).
September 23, 2012, 01:55:55 PM
You mean this sells could be because someone got his account hacked? I doubt because a hacker wouldnt stop at 0.1btc. But the 0.00021 sure sound like a hacker. But i wouldnt trust to get shares for that price...
But this 0.1 selling still lets me think...
But this 0.1 selling still lets me think...
i bought my first 10 shares at about 0.098 last month.
September 23, 2012, 01:49:31 PM
I dont know. It happened a good couple of times now that someone sold shares for 0.1btc. Ok, maybe he was frightened, but short after a good message in this thread?
It doesnt make much sense to me. I mean its probably the same person otherwise i dont see really why so many different persons should buy at 0.1 and sell at different times for the same amount.
Im only a bit suspicious about this. At least the seller has to be one of the buyers from ipo because the number of shares isnt changing. So i think it cant be some kind of scam does it? I mean i dont see a hint that anything at this project is suspicious but bitcoin investments are a minefield.
/Theorise on
I mean when someone wants to run a scam he maybe makes a plan that looks like much money so that the investors think that he cant afford to lose the much money. While in fact he is targetting to get away with a small portion of money. So he can hide this fact because all think the big money insures it. So maybe at ipo sell shares and, because you are the owner, you move some shares to yourself. Then stop selling so that customers think thats cool... he doesnt buy more even though he could. Strong sign its not a scam. A scammer would take as much money as possible.
Then over time the shares that were moved to the private account are sold. But only to the point to let the course be stable. But you can earn money and run. All looks safe and normal while one can run with the money at some point. Leaving behind shares that never were planned to have value. Only to let investors think the securityissuer has something to lose.
/Theorise off
Im only thinking around what these sells are. They dont make sense to me. Against my theorising speaks that none of my 1000 shares were bought. I mean they could have been bought without letting the course fall. Or are the shares all sold?
Or maybe the sells for 0.1 was a mistake because the seller simply calculated the amount of shares in the bidsection and sold a round number of shares. But no... there were 100BTC sold for 0.1BTC. Thats no error. And unfortunately exactly the amount for the 1000 shares i offered. *grmbl* glbse...
It doesnt make much sense to me. I mean its probably the same person otherwise i dont see really why so many different persons should buy at 0.1 and sell at different times for the same amount.
Im only a bit suspicious about this. At least the seller has to be one of the buyers from ipo because the number of shares isnt changing. So i think it cant be some kind of scam does it? I mean i dont see a hint that anything at this project is suspicious but bitcoin investments are a minefield.
/Theorise on
I mean when someone wants to run a scam he maybe makes a plan that looks like much money so that the investors think that he cant afford to lose the much money. While in fact he is targetting to get away with a small portion of money. So he can hide this fact because all think the big money insures it. So maybe at ipo sell shares and, because you are the owner, you move some shares to yourself. Then stop selling so that customers think thats cool... he doesnt buy more even though he could. Strong sign its not a scam. A scammer would take as much money as possible.
Then over time the shares that were moved to the private account are sold. But only to the point to let the course be stable. But you can earn money and run. All looks safe and normal while one can run with the money at some point. Leaving behind shares that never were planned to have value. Only to let investors think the securityissuer has something to lose.
/Theorise off
Im only thinking around what these sells are. They dont make sense to me. Against my theorising speaks that none of my 1000 shares were bought. I mean they could have been bought without letting the course fall. Or are the shares all sold?
Or maybe the sells for 0.1 was a mistake because the seller simply calculated the amount of shares in the bidsection and sold a round number of shares. But no... there were 100BTC sold for 0.1BTC. Thats no error. And unfortunately exactly the amount for the 1000 shares i offered. *grmbl* glbse...
maybe it is profitable for someone:
Low of the day in ASICMINER on GLBSE 0.00021
Someone's account got hacked or something ?
Someone's account got hacked or something ?
Yep
September 23, 2012, 12:26:23 PM
Can someone explain these sells? I mean its not that the amount of shares circulating are raised. But this time again the seller sold shares up to a price of 0.1btc. (And i dont understand why not one single share was sold to me while i was the only person offering to buy 1000 shares for 0.1 each. And everyone that offers the same 0.1 after my offer would be below me in the list.)
i think i have seen this before. last order at the same price is selling/buying first.
maybe a bug on GLBSE.
But whats the reason for this solds? I mean when he bought at ipo at 0.1btc he could make some money when selling it for 1.3BTC or so. 30% plus. But for 0.1? What reason is behind this?
Anyway... when you do it again... maybe sell me 1k shares that time...
Anyway... when you do it again... maybe sell me 1k shares that time...
maybe someone needs the money right now, or is frightened because there are a lot of defaulted bonds at the moment.
September 23, 2012, 12:23:36 PM
Nothing to explain, other than someone had to liquidate BTC.
Look at it like an opportunity (I did)
Look at it like an opportunity (I did)
Can someone explain these sells? I mean its not that the amount of shares circulating are raised. But this time again the seller sold shares up to a price of 0.1btc. (And i dont understand why not one single share was sold to me while i was the only person offering to buy 1000 shares for 0.1 each. And everyone that offers the same 0.1 after my offer would be below me in the list.)
But whats the reason for this solds? I mean when he bought at ipo at 0.1btc he could make some money when selling it for 1.3BTC or so. 30% plus. But for 0.1? What reason is behind this?
Anyway... when you do it again... maybe sell me 1k shares that time...
But whats the reason for this solds? I mean when he bought at ipo at 0.1btc he could make some money when selling it for 1.3BTC or so. 30% plus. But for 0.1? What reason is behind this?
Anyway... when you do it again... maybe sell me 1k shares that time...
September 23, 2012, 08:27:25 AM
thanks for whoever shorted ASICMINER. I have a great oppotunity now
September 22, 2012, 07:11:17 PM
Thank you for your hard work, I'm excited to see these chips in action!
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