ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1318.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: dentldir on October 03, 2012, 01:07:54 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on October 02, 2012, 07:08:54 PM

oO What did nefario do to scare you away deeplink? The only actions he took that im aware of are actions against possible scams. So you think he reacted wrong anywhere? If so where?

The TYGRR delisting topic is pretty good review of what happened. Someone please correct me if my summary is wrong:

Pirateat40 offers really high returns by laundering money for some illegal stuff in BTC.
A bunch of pirate pass through listings show up on GLBSE and lots of people jump on board.
Pirateat40 "defaults" and runs with or loses all the money.
Everyone gets their feelings hurt in one way or another.
An SEC investigation is started.
Nefario gets legal advice then delists everything that is probably criminal because he is making the exchange legitimate.
He can no longer be an accomplice now that everything fell apart.
Goat calls him out for being a scammer and reaffirms that he still wants to keep Nefario involved,
Nefario goes silent.
The forum panics and starts selling everything because Nefario is a "hot head".
Now Maged is going to give Nefario a scammer tag if he doesn't support the illegal activity as an accomplice i.e. relist the assets.

Sound about right?

Pretty much.

No one knows why the assets are illegal and Nefario isnt allowed to make a statement about it.

dentldir

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Quote from: SebastianJu on October 02, 2012, 07:08:54 PM

oO What did nefario do to scare you away deeplink? The only actions he took that im aware of are actions against possible scams. So you think he reacted wrong anywhere? If so where?

The TYGRR delisting topic is pretty good review of what happened. Someone please correct me if my summary is wrong:

Pirateat40 offers really high returns by laundering money for some illegal stuff in BTC.
A bunch of pirate pass through listings show up on GLBSE and lots of people jump on board.
Pirateat40 "defaults" and runs with or loses all the money.
Everyone gets their feelings hurt in one way or another.
An SEC investigation is started.
Nefario gets legal advice then delists everything that is probably criminal because he is making the exchange legitimate.
He can no longer be an accomplice now that everything fell apart.
Goat calls him out for being a scammer and reaffirms that he still wants to keep Nefario involved,
Nefario goes silent.
The forum panics and starts selling everything because Nefario is a "hot head".
Now Maged is going to give Nefario a scammer tag if he doesn't support the illegal activity as an accomplice i.e. relist the assets.

Sound about right?

SebastianJu

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oO What did nefario do to scare you away deeplink? The only actions he took that im aware of are actions against possible scams. So you think he reacted wrong anywhere? If so where?

keystroke

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advocate of a cryptographic attack on the globe

Quote from: Jutarul on October 02, 2012, 03:58:24 PM

Quote from: deeplink on October 02, 2012, 02:41:56 PM

Too bad, I cannot accept the risks involved with GLBSE.
I have decided to close my account there and that means unfortunately I have to sell all my shares in this project.
GLBSE and the people running it are too much of a liability at the moment.

If you hold >1000 shares you may want to consider contacting friedcat for "direct shares".

What's the best thread for the info on what is going on with GLBSE? Sorry didn't want to hijack this one but wasn't able to find it. Thanks!

Edit: What would be a secure method of holding "direct shares"?

Jutarul

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Quote from: deeplink on October 02, 2012, 02:41:56 PM

Too bad, I cannot accept the risks involved with GLBSE.
I have decided to close my account there and that means unfortunately I have to sell all my shares in this project.
GLBSE and the people running it are too much of a liability at the moment.

If you hold >1000 shares you may want to consider contacting friedcat for "direct shares".

nebulus

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... it only gets better...

got anything else worth while?

deeplink

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In cryptography we trust

Quote from: nebulus on October 02, 2012, 02:51:52 PM

Massive unload, thanks! Cool

Yep that was me, you're welcome.

nebulus

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... it only gets better...

Massive unload, thanks! Cool

deeplink

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In cryptography we trust

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 28, 2012, 10:00:59 AM

Quote from: Jutarul on September 28, 2012, 09:58:26 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 28, 2012, 09:40:29 AM

Quote from: deeplink on September 28, 2012, 09:33:13 AM

Is it possible to hold ASICMINER shares outside of GLBSE?

Glbse is both the broker and the exchange.
Someone could setup a passthrough to cryptostocks for example.

The problem though is that passthroughs enhance the risk of default (adding more links to the chain).

The most direct way (but maybe the most inflexible one) is to let bitfountain hold the shares for you. But they won't do it below a certain minimum (because of the involved management) and you won't be able to liquidate easily (because you can't put asks and bids) ...

You are pretty much at the mercy of glbse. Just pray friedcat doesnt annoy Nefario for some reason

Too bad, I cannot accept the risks involved with GLBSE.
I have decided to close my account there and that means unfortunately I have to sell all my shares in this project.
GLBSE and the people running it are too much of a liability at the moment.

tucenaber

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Merit: 252

Quote from: friedcat on October 02, 2012, 01:50:21 AM

1 GHash = 50 / (4 * difficulty) BTC [before block reward halving] /.../ BTC

You may be wondering, where does the number 4 come from? Actually, a more accurate number of the income from 1GH/s is 50/(4.295 *difficulty) BTC/s.

4.295032833 being 10^-92⁴⁸/65535 see the wiki

DutchBrat

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Quote from: friedcat on October 02, 2012, 01:50:21 AM

Quote from: DutchBrat on October 01, 2012, 10:24:01 AM

Friedcat: Would it be possible to give a power estimate in Wattage per GH

BFL and Avalon came out with theirs so it would be good to be able to compare, I know you gave yours in Joule/GH, but there's no way to compare the 2 without having more info

Thanks

Our spec is 4.2 (Watt / (GHash / s)). Because 1 Watt = 1 Joule / s, it equals to 4.2 Joule / GHash.

We know that:

1 kWh = 3,600,000 Joule

1 GHash = 50 / (4 * difficulty) BTC [before block reward halving] or 25 / (4 * difficulty) [after block reward halving] BTC

Suppose the price of electricity per kWh is pe, and the price of BTC is pb, the difficulty when we are un-profitable any more is d, we have:

4.2 * pe / 3,600,000 = pb * 50 / (4 * d) [before block reward halving]
or
4.2 * pe / 3,600,000 = pb * 25 / (4 * d) [after block reward halving]

therefore:

d = (3,600,000 * pb * 50) / (4.2 * pe * 4) [before block reward halving]
or
d = (3,600,000 * pb * 25) / (4.2 * pe * 4) [after block reward halving]

First we could fill in the (pe) field [0.1$ in China]. Then we could speculate on the average price of Bitcoin during the whole operating time and fill in the (pb) field to get the average difficulty cap, below which the miners could have non-negative margin profits if they consider electricity cost to be their only margin cost.

Thanks for your (more than) comprehensive answer !

friedcat

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Quote from: DutchBrat on October 01, 2012, 10:24:01 AM

Friedcat: Would it be possible to give a power estimate in Wattage per GH

BFL and Avalon came out with theirs so it would be good to be able to compare, I know you gave yours in Joule/GH, but there's no way to compare the 2 without having more info

Thanks

Our spec is 4.2 (Watt / (GHash / s)). Because 1 Watt = 1 Joule / s, it equals to 4.2 Joule / GHash.

We know that:

1 kWh = 3,600,000 Joule

1 GHash = 50 / (4 * difficulty) BTC [before block reward halving] or 25 / (4 * difficulty) [after block reward halving] BTC

Suppose the price of electricity per kWh is pe, and the price of BTC is pb, the difficulty when we are un-profitable any more is d, we have:

4.2 * pe / 3,600,000 = pb * 50 / (4 * d) [before block reward halving]
or
4.2 * pe / 3,600,000 = pb * 25 / (4 * d) [after block reward halving]

therefore:

d = (3,600,000 * pb * 50) / (4.2 * pe * 4) [before block reward halving]
or
d = (3,600,000 * pb * 25) / (4.2 * pe * 4) [after block reward halving]

First we could fill in the (pe) field [0.1$ in China]. Then we could speculate on the average price of Bitcoin during the whole operating time and fill in the (pb) field to get the average difficulty cap, below which the miners could have non-negative margin profits if they consider electricity cost to be their only margin cost.

niko

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Quote from: DutchBrat on October 01, 2012, 10:24:01 AM

Friedcat: Would it be possible to give a power estimate in Wattage per GH

BFL and Avalon came out with theirs so it would be good to be able to compare, I know you gave yours in Joule/GH, but there's no way to compare the 2 without having more info

Thanks

One Joule worth of energy is equivalent to one Watt of power sustained over one second. You do the math. Hint: Ghash vs. Ghash/s.The only reason Friedcat provided Joules per Gigahash and not "Wattage per GH" is that he understands physics.

DiabloD3

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DiabloMiner author

Quote from: tucenaber on October 01, 2012, 11:40:57 AM

1 J/GH = 1 Ws/GH = 1 W/(GH/s)

Most important math ever.

tucenaber

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Activity: 337

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1 J/GH = 1 Ws/GH = 1 W/(GH/s)

DutchBrat

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Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Friedcat: Would it be possible to give a power estimate in Wattage per GH

BFL and Avalon came out with theirs so it would be good to be able to compare, I know you gave yours in Joule/GH, but there's no way to compare the 2 without having more info

Thanks

memvola

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Activity: 938

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 28, 2012, 10:00:59 AM

Quote from: Jutarul on September 28, 2012, 09:58:26 AM

The most direct way (but maybe the most inflexible one) is to let bitfountain hold the shares for you. But they won't do it below a certain minimum (because of the involved management) and you won't be able to liquidate easily (because you can't put asks and bids) ...

You are pretty much at the mercy of glbse. Just pray friedcat doesnt annoy Nefario for some reason

Actually, you could sign a contract with bitfountain and hold the signed text instead of shares on GLBSE, as Jutarul said. This only works if you have enough shares that would make it worth friedcat's time. As long as the company continues to be listed and you have a direct channel to the issuer, there should be a way to find a solution. For instance, if ASICMINER did decide to get listed on cryptostocks as well, you could transfer your shares this way.

Bitcoin Oz

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Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: Jutarul on September 28, 2012, 09:58:26 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 28, 2012, 09:40:29 AM

Quote from: deeplink on September 28, 2012, 09:33:13 AM

Is it possible to hold ASICMINER shares outside of GLBSE?

Glbse is both the broker and the exchange.
Someone could setup a passthrough to cryptostocks for example.

The problem though is that passthroughs enhance the risk of default (adding more links to the chain).

The most direct way (but maybe the most inflexible one) is to let bitfountain hold the shares for you. But they won't do it below a certain minimum (because of the involved management) and you won't be able to liquidate easily (because you can't put asks and bids) ...

You are pretty much at the mercy of glbse. Just pray friedcat doesnt annoy Nefario for some reason

Jutarul

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Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 28, 2012, 09:40:29 AM

Quote from: deeplink on September 28, 2012, 09:33:13 AM

Is it possible to hold ASICMINER shares outside of GLBSE?

Glbse is both the broker and the exchange.
Someone could setup a passthrough to cryptostocks for example.

The problem though is that passthroughs enhance the risk of default (adding more links to the chain).

The most direct way (but maybe the most inflexible one) is to let bitfountain hold the shares for you. But they won't do it below a certain minimum (because of the involved management) and you won't be able to liquidate easily (because you can't put asks and bids) ...

Bitcoin Oz

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Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: deeplink on September 28, 2012, 09:33:13 AM

Is it possible to hold ASICMINER shares outside of GLBSE?

Glbse is both the broker and the exchange.
Someone could setup a passthrough to cryptostocks for example.

Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1318. (Read 3917468 times)