ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 158.

sngwinner

full member

Activity: 432

Merit: 100

Quote from: Bonam on October 23, 2014, 01:42:01 AM

Quote from: jjdub7 on October 23, 2014, 12:51:40 AM

And also, I've posted these damn addresses so many times now that I can't understand how the stock still trades at levels below below AM's on-hand cash per share:

There is no communication from AM. There are lots of addresses out there that have money. That doesn't mean they are gonna send that money to you. There is no reason to believe friedcat has any intention of ever paying any dividend again. This is the BTC world, and you can take your money and run and get away with it. And even if he did this, there would still be tons of fanboys in this very thread defending him based on the fact that he "already paid shareholders back their IPO price many times over" or some such nonsense. AM could have all the hash rate in the world but if they have no intention of honoring the shares and paying out dividends, then the shares are worth nothing.

All that even ignores the fact that the addresses you link to aren't even actually known to belong to AM; it is purely speculation. And for your other points:

Quote

In addition to the cash value, there's also stocked inventory, what probably amounts to an unholy sum of fiat in RMB and USD, 3 proprietary chip designs (4 if we'd ever count gen2 for any reason), and (though admittedly dwindling) a surplus of goodwill generated primarily from pulling IPO investors past ROI. I also wouldn't be surprised if gen4 manufacturing was already contracted out and a fiat deposit submitted.

- How much "stocked inventory"? What is it worth? Is anyone buying it? No one knows. No communication.
- How much fiat? Any? Maybe none? Maybe just giant outstanding liabilities and nothing to pay them with? No one knows. No communication.
- 3 proprietary chip designs? One is no longer at all relevant. One is barely good enough to sell barely at cost. And one is nothing but a rumor based on a single post, like false promises about "PR". Is gen 4 real? No one knows. No communication.
- Good will? The only people with good will left towards AM are a few fanboys. Why is the good will dwindling? No communication.

Frankly, AM has shown little but contempt for the shareholders with their complete lack of communication. The shares have lost 98% of their value from their peak and the remaining 2% is propped up by nothing but empty faith and denial by a couple fanboys.

If you have to ask why the shares are worth nothing, realize that this company has:

- no communication
- no dividends
- no credibility

Whether this is FUD or not, it's nice to see someone that doesn't come in here and spout positive shit out of their ass to try to justify FriedCats actions. The situation with AM has gotten extremely bad. Much worse than before. Fried Cat or a board member should address our concerns. Honestly if a board member just dropped in and said I've had contact with FC in the last week and things are progressing I would be happy. But the investors aren't even worth FC spending a second to update.

hdbuck

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1002

damn, so apparently, FC (and boardmembers) prolonged absence could partly be explained by the fact that china has indeed restricted access to bitcointalk:

Quote from: Phasebird on October 23, 2014, 07:29:42 AM

bitcointalk has been totally blocked by china interenet so i cannot login very often

are there anymore chinese people in here Huh

vortex1878

hero member

Activity: 491

Merit: 500

More like 40$ unfortunately... Sad

hdbuck

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1002

man these are so outdated Grin

here is an up to date graph:

1 AM share is now worth ~$50... I say cheap shares Cheesy

parkinawalk

newbie

Activity: 1

Merit: 0

In USD/share terms things seem way underpriced imho.

All has been said in this thread about the current situation. I just wanted to point that we still live in a world where the main value measure is NOT btc/something but USD/something or loaves of bread/thing or ounces of gold or pair of shoes or a basket combination of all these VS thing ...

Of course by going in and out of am shares and in and out of BTC one could have had a very different portfolio outcomes in the recent year, way better or way worse depending on timing and direction of the trading position in btcusd and btc/AM.

I suspect the thin market on havelock makes the share price suffer more than "normal" due to low liquidity.

I strongly hope the voices from the speculation AM thread get heard and friedcat migrates to counterparty or something similar and decentralised. Share price depends on share usefullness = ease of buying/selling/transfering and security of ownership = not realying on middlemen.

In conclusion, once again : notice how the blue line in the chart ( usd/share ) goes to a bottom and then goes to all time high in Feb 2014, although the green line ( btc/share ) has free fallen before that and not recovered ... Measure things with the right tool for the job!

Quote from: hdbuck on May 15, 2014, 06:14:13 PM

yea, just sharing my .xls file with exact weekly prices from havelock and stamp.. needed to do it properly by myself, no offense JonnyBitc0in Wink

-> http://sharesend.com/grfu6ryf

https://i.imgur.com/wMoXuwI.png

edit: plus, here are my divs calcs :

https://i.imgur.com/3VlyOLL.png

depending if the next due divs correspond only to batch1-april, we should get about 0,023 BTC by the end of this month.
but it can also take into account batch2-may, and we would then have >0,1 BTC for sure! Cheesy

hdbuck

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1002

Quote from: jjdub7 on October 23, 2014, 02:28:55 AM

Quote from: Bonam on October 23, 2014, 01:42:01 AM

Quote from: jjdub7 on October 23, 2014, 12:51:40 AM

And also, I've posted these damn addresses so many times now that I can't understand how the stock still trades at levels below below AM's on-hand cash per share:

There is no communication from AM. There are lots of addresses out there that have money. That doesn't mean they are gonna send that money to you. There is no reason to believe friedcat has any intention of ever paying any dividend again. This is the BTC world, and you can take your money and run and get away with it. And even if he did this, there would still be tons of fanboys in this very thread defending him based on the fact that he "already paid shareholders back their IPO price many times over" or some such nonsense. AM could have all the hash rate in the world but if they have no intention of honoring the shares and paying out dividends, then the shares are worth nothing.

All that even ignores the fact that the addresses you link to aren't even actually known to belong to AM; it is purely speculation. And for your other points:

Quote

In addition to the cash value, there's also stocked inventory, what probably amounts to an unholy sum of fiat in RMB and USD, 3 proprietary chip designs (4 if we'd ever count gen2 for any reason), and (though admittedly dwindling) a surplus of goodwill generated primarily from pulling IPO investors past ROI. I also wouldn't be surprised if gen4 manufacturing was already contracted out and a fiat deposit submitted.

- How much "stocked inventory"? What is it worth? Is anyone buying it? No one knows. No communication.
- How much fiat? Any? Maybe none? Maybe just giant outstanding liabilities and nothing to pay them with? No one knows. No communication.
- 3 proprietary chip designs? One is no longer at all relevant. One is barely good enough to sell barely at cost. And one is nothing but a rumor based on a single post, like false promises about "PR". Is gen 4 real? No one knows. No communication.
- Good will? The only people with good will left towards AM are a few fanboys. Why is the good will dwindling? No communication.

Frankly, AM has shown little but contempt for the shareholders with their complete lack of communication. The shares have lost 98% of their value from their peak and the remaining 2% is propped up by nothing but empty faith and denial by a couple fanboys.

If you have to ask why the shares are worth nothing, realize that this company has:

- no communication
- no dividends
- no credibility

To be frank, I'm still lost on the fact that they run the whole operation with like 5 people.

lol you guys done shilling? Grin

what makes you think there is only 5 peps?

No communication is not synonym with failure.
No divs now doesnt imply no divs in the future.
No credibility? you gotta be kidding me Cheesy

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: Bonam on October 23, 2014, 01:42:01 AM

Quote from: jjdub7 on October 23, 2014, 12:51:40 AM

And also, I've posted these damn addresses so many times now that I can't understand how the stock still trades at levels below below AM's on-hand cash per share:

There is no communication from AM. There are lots of addresses out there that have money. That doesn't mean they are gonna send that money to you. There is no reason to believe friedcat has any intention of ever paying any dividend again. This is the BTC world, and you can take your money and run and get away with it. And even if he did this, there would still be tons of fanboys in this very thread defending him based on the fact that he "already paid shareholders back their IPO price many times over" or some such nonsense. AM could have all the hash rate in the world but if they have no intention of honoring the shares and paying out dividends, then the shares are worth nothing.

All that even ignores the fact that the addresses you link to aren't even actually known to belong to AM; it is purely speculation. And for your other points:

Quote

In addition to the cash value, there's also stocked inventory, what probably amounts to an unholy sum of fiat in RMB and USD, 3 proprietary chip designs (4 if we'd ever count gen2 for any reason), and (though admittedly dwindling) a surplus of goodwill generated primarily from pulling IPO investors past ROI. I also wouldn't be surprised if gen4 manufacturing was already contracted out and a fiat deposit submitted.

- How much "stocked inventory"? What is it worth? Is anyone buying it? No one knows. No communication.
- How much fiat? Any? Maybe none? Maybe just giant outstanding liabilities and nothing to pay them with? No one knows. No communication.
- 3 proprietary chip designs? One is no longer at all relevant. One is barely good enough to sell barely at cost. And one is nothing but a rumor based on a single post, like false promises about "PR". Is gen 4 real? No one knows. No communication.
- Good will? The only people with good will left towards AM are a few fanboys. Why is the good will dwindling? No communication.
Frankly, AM has shown little but contempt for the shareholders with their complete lack of communication. The shares have lost 98% of their value from their peak and the remaining 2% is propped up by nothing but empty faith and denial by a couple fanboys.

If you have to ask why the shares are worth nothing, realize that this company has:

- no communication
- no dividends
- no credibility

The only thing remotely true about your post is the fact that AM is completely lacking communication. (which I agree is unacceptable but it doesn't make them scammers )

There's nobody here who would defend FC/AM if they decided to start scamming.

They have a very competitive chip (possibly the best) and 60PH completely paid for. That's at least ~$10m in assets.

Overall I'd rate the FUD 4/10.

jjdub7

hero member

Activity: 938

Merit: 502

Quote from: Bonam on October 23, 2014, 01:42:01 AM

Quote from: jjdub7 on October 23, 2014, 12:51:40 AM

And also, I've posted these damn addresses so many times now that I can't understand how the stock still trades at levels below below AM's on-hand cash per share:

There is no communication from AM. There are lots of addresses out there that have money. That doesn't mean they are gonna send that money to you. There is no reason to believe friedcat has any intention of ever paying any dividend again. This is the BTC world, and you can take your money and run and get away with it. And even if he did this, there would still be tons of fanboys in this very thread defending him based on the fact that he "already paid shareholders back their IPO price many times over" or some such nonsense. AM could have all the hash rate in the world but if they have no intention of honoring the shares and paying out dividends, then the shares are worth nothing.

All that even ignores the fact that the addresses you link to aren't even actually known to belong to AM; it is purely speculation. And for your other points:

Quote

In addition to the cash value, there's also stocked inventory, what probably amounts to an unholy sum of fiat in RMB and USD, 3 proprietary chip designs (4 if we'd ever count gen2 for any reason), and (though admittedly dwindling) a surplus of goodwill generated primarily from pulling IPO investors past ROI. I also wouldn't be surprised if gen4 manufacturing was already contracted out and a fiat deposit submitted.

- How much "stocked inventory"? What is it worth? Is anyone buying it? No one knows. No communication.
- How much fiat? Any? Maybe none? Maybe just giant outstanding liabilities and nothing to pay them with? No one knows. No communication.
- 3 proprietary chip designs? One is no longer at all relevant. One is barely good enough to sell barely at cost. And one is nothing but a rumor based on a single post, like false promises about "PR". Is gen 4 real? No one knows. No communication.
- Good will? The only people with good will left towards AM are a few fanboys. Why is the good will dwindling? No communication.

Frankly, AM has shown little but contempt for the shareholders with their complete lack of communication. The shares have lost 98% of their value from their peak and the remaining 2% is propped up by nothing but empty faith and denial by a couple fanboys.

If you have to ask why the shares are worth nothing, realize that this company has:

- no communication
- no dividends
- no credibility

To be frank, I'm still lost on the fact that they run the whole operation with like 5 people.

Bonam

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: jjdub7 on October 23, 2014, 12:51:40 AM

And also, I've posted these damn addresses so many times now that I can't understand how the stock still trades at levels below below AM's on-hand cash per share:

There is no communication from AM. There are lots of addresses out there that have money. That doesn't mean they are gonna send that money to you. There is no reason to believe friedcat has any intention of ever paying any dividend again. This is the BTC world, and you can take your money and run and get away with it. And even if he did this, there would still be tons of fanboys in this very thread defending him based on the fact that he "already paid shareholders back their IPO price many times over" or some such nonsense. AM could have all the hash rate in the world but if they have no intention of honoring the shares and paying out dividends, then the shares are worth nothing.

All that even ignores the fact that the addresses you link to aren't even actually known to belong to AM; it is purely speculation. And for your other points:

Quote

In addition to the cash value, there's also stocked inventory, what probably amounts to an unholy sum of fiat in RMB and USD, 3 proprietary chip designs (4 if we'd ever count gen2 for any reason), and (though admittedly dwindling) a surplus of goodwill generated primarily from pulling IPO investors past ROI. I also wouldn't be surprised if gen4 manufacturing was already contracted out and a fiat deposit submitted.

- How much "stocked inventory"? What is it worth? Is anyone buying it? No one knows. No communication.
- How much fiat? Any? Maybe none? Maybe just giant outstanding liabilities and nothing to pay them with? No one knows. No communication.
- 3 proprietary chip designs? One is no longer at all relevant. One is barely good enough to sell barely at cost. And one is nothing but a rumor based on a single post, like false promises about "PR". Is gen 4 real? No one knows. No communication.
- Good will? The only people with good will left towards AM are a few fanboys. Why is the good will dwindling? No communication.

Frankly, AM has shown little but contempt for the shareholders with their complete lack of communication. The shares have lost 98% of their value from their peak and the remaining 2% is propped up by nothing but empty faith and denial by a couple fanboys.

If you have to ask why the shares are worth nothing, realize that this company has:

- no communication
- no dividends
- no credibility

btcbot

full member

Activity: 151

Merit: 105

Quote from: drasted on October 22, 2014, 11:37:48 PM

New review on the Prisma:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/review-asicminer-returns-prisma-1-4-ths-bitcoin-miner/

Concerned about this from the article.
"The BE200 has not been updated officially yet to have failover pools, and the stratum bug is still there from the Tube and the T1 that also shipped with this controller."
I thought friedcat said that these stratum issues were resolved about a month ago. There seems to be a few questions from the hardware threads that are going unanswered and friedcat hasn't even logged in to bitcointalk for over two weeks.

It's frustrating looking through his post history and seeing how many times he mentions improving PR and yet it just seems to be getting worse.

I do like this part, though:

Quote

The Prisma is a definite winner. FriedCat has more tricks up his sleeve as well with new chips on the way and a new partnership we will report on here in the future.

jjdub7

hero member

Activity: 938

Merit: 502

Quote from: drasted on October 22, 2014, 11:37:48 PM

New review on the Prisma:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/review-asicminer-returns-prisma-1-4-ths-bitcoin-miner/

Concerned about this from the article.
"The BE200 has not been updated officially yet to have failover pools, and the stratum bug is still there from the Tube and the T1 that also shipped with this controller."
I thought friedcat said that these stratum issues were resolved about a month ago. There seems to be a few questions from the hardware threads that are going unanswered and friedcat hasn't even logged in to bitcointalk for over two weeks.

It's frustrating looking through his post history and seeing how many times he mentions improving PR and yet it just seems to be getting worse.

Do you realize what lengths the AM team is probably having to go through right now to exchange currencies and keep operations running? The fiat accounts are all in Hong Kong IIRC, and things over in that geopolitical sphere aren't exactly going smoothly right now...

And also, I've posted these damn addresses so many times now that I can't understand how the stock still trades at levels below below AM's on-hand cash per share:

https://blockchain.info/address/3KBUuGko4H5ke7EVsq9B7PLK1c5Askdd7y
https://blockchain.info/address/3MkwFfGNQDve7vz1z6gUDVxkuQpcSV3Mz8

The books show at least 44,846 BTC (~0.1121 BTC/share) in cash from these two accounts alone. And before anyone goes off about how these addresses are actually from an exchange, I'd implore that you run a count (frequency) on the addresses of transactions to/from the 3Mkw address specifically over the past 3 months since mining and sales began again.

In addition to the cash value, there's also stocked inventory, what probably amounts to an unholy sum of fiat in RMB and USD, 3 proprietary chip designs (4 if we'd ever count gen2 for any reason), and (though admittedly dwindling) a surplus of goodwill generated primarily from pulling IPO investors past ROI. I also wouldn't be surprised if gen4 manufacturing was already contracted out and a fiat deposit submitted.

drasted

sr. member

Activity: 240

Merit: 250

New review on the Prisma:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/review-asicminer-returns-prisma-1-4-ths-bitcoin-miner/

Concerned about this from the article.
"The BE200 has not been updated officially yet to have failover pools, and the stratum bug is still there from the Tube and the T1 that also shipped with this controller."
I thought friedcat said that these stratum issues were resolved about a month ago. There seems to be a few questions from the hardware threads that are going unanswered and friedcat hasn't even logged in to bitcointalk for over two weeks.

It's frustrating looking through his post history and seeing how many times he mentions improving PR and yet it just seems to be getting worse.

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: Blazed on October 22, 2014, 09:44:58 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 22, 2014, 09:11:10 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on October 22, 2014, 08:33:03 PM

I won't even bother. If you think that making a chip that is on par with something 9 months old is an accomplishment then it's useless to continue this discussion.

It is actually quite the achievement when that chip has been the reigning champ for 9 months.

Selling the best priced hardware (by a large margin) 7 months after it first tested is a testament to how well AM's chip is designed.

They sell because they are low price...not because they are great chips.

Isn't a low price + good efficiency the definition of a good chip?

Quote

AM sells for the cheapest so people buy. I assume there margins are not great at the prices they sell for.

I'm sure you would have said the same thing about the AM tube which was ~10% more expensive per chip compared to the Prisma.

People (mostly Roadstress) assumed AM was selling chips at a loss until FC clarified the profit margins will remain high.

Quote

Didn't FriedCat say AM was negative cash wise?

No he said the opposite. At the time of the last financial update AM had completely paid for 60PH worth of chips and since then they've sold a bunch of chips/hardware as well as began self mining.

RoadStress

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1007

Quote from: jimmothy on October 22, 2014, 09:11:10 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on October 22, 2014, 08:33:03 PM

I won't even bother. If you think that making a chip that is on par with something 9 months old is an accomplishment then it's useless to continue this discussion.

It is actually quite the achievement when that chip has been the reigning champ for 9 months.

Selling the best priced hardware (by a large margin) 7 months after it first tested is a testament to how well AM's chip is designed.

Actually still having chips in stock sitting on shelves isn't something I would brag about after AM claimed to sell tons of PH in 3-4 months.

If sales are so great then where are the dividends. I assume that the whole chips production costs should be covered by now and also gen4 funding. So what's happening with all that extra money?

Blazed

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1119

Quote from: jimmothy on October 22, 2014, 09:11:10 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on October 22, 2014, 08:33:03 PM

I won't even bother. If you think that making a chip that is on par with something 9 months old is an accomplishment then it's useless to continue this discussion.

It is actually quite the achievement when that chip has been the reigning champ for 9 months.

Selling the best priced hardware (by a large margin) 7 months after it first tested is a testament to how well AM's chip is designed.

They sell because they are low price...not because they are great chips. AM sells for the cheapest so people buy. I assume there margins are not great at the prices they sell for. Didn't FriedCat say AM was negative cash wise?

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: RoadStress on October 22, 2014, 08:33:03 PM

I won't even bother. If you think that making a chip that is on par with something 9 months old is an accomplishment then it's useless to continue this discussion.

It is actually quite the achievement when that chip has been the reigning champ for 9 months.

Selling the best priced hardware (by a large margin) 7 months after it first tested is a testament to how well AM's chip is designed.

freedomno1

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1090

Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Quote from: vortex1878 on October 22, 2014, 04:35:21 PM

And the next Wednesday w/o a dividend has passed. Not to mention any info... :/

Yep that silence is deafening
Hmm if I made a bet in for news by December or a dividend would there be any takers
Or would it need to be a longer duration tempted to see what peoples news timeline estimates are and dividend timeline estimates.

RoadStress

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1007

Quote from: jimmothy on October 22, 2014, 07:16:29 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on October 22, 2014, 07:04:49 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 22, 2014, 06:44:00 PM

Just because it was made 9 months later means it's somehow an inferior chip?

AM's chip basically what I'd expect a Bitfury 40nm chip to be like. (had they not scrapped it)

This is bitcoin world. 9 months is almost like 5 years. I wouldn't brag with that "on par" chip after 9 months. Maybe in May AM will produce a chip with 0.5J/GH efficiency that is the standard since August.

Please do tell which manufacturer is selling 0.5 J/gh hardware.

It's on par with a Bitfury 40nm not 55nm. It is equally efficient yet half the price of their 55nm.

I won't even bother. If you think that making a chip that is on par with something 9 months old is an accomplishment then it's useless to continue this discussion.

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: RoadStress on October 22, 2014, 07:04:49 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 22, 2014, 06:44:00 PM

Just because it was made 9 months later means it's somehow an inferior chip?

AM's chip basically what I'd expect a Bitfury 40nm chip to be like. (had they not scrapped it)

This is bitcoin world. 9 months is almost like 5 years. I wouldn't brag with that "on par" chip after 9 months. Maybe in May AM will produce a chip with 0.5J/GH efficiency that is the standard since August.

Please do tell which manufacturer is selling 0.5 J/gh hardware.

It's on par with a Bitfury 40nm not 55nm. It is equally efficient yet half the price of their 55nm.

RoadStress

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1007

Quote from: jimmothy on October 22, 2014, 06:44:00 PM

Just because it was made 9 months later means it's somehow an inferior chip?

AM's chip basically what I'd expect a Bitfury 40nm chip to be like. (had they not scrapped it)

This is bitcoin world. 9 months is almost like 5 years. I wouldn't brag with that "on par" chip after 9 months. Maybe in May AM will produce a chip with 0.5J/GH efficiency that is the standard since August.

Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 158. (Read 3917058 times)