Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 407. (Read 3917543 times)

This is quoted for future laughs, but i also feel the need to reply to this. Call it advertising or not i don't care. I MUST reply!

"Ridiculously priced"? At 0.83$/GH i don't understand how can this be nothing else than ridiculously good! You also stated that you don't understand how are people going to make ROI, but when comparing to AM 0.55-0.99$/GH just for chips i just don't get your logic behind your statement. Statement backed by nothing. AM's chips never put their competition to shame


gen1-3 just a few months apart? please share me your timeline because from what i know it was a bit more than a few months.

Spondoolies 40nm is hashing since end of March, when AM's still isn't hashing in customers hands. What are we comparing here? Why do i have the feeling that when SP-Tech gen2 chips start hashing the customers will barely get AM gen3 miners in hands?


As i said these are my views and i will still have them after GB will end.

AM wafer cost was stated to be $0.2/gh but you're right it is somewhat irrelevant without knowing all the production costs for both sides.


Also right. I retract my statement about AM gen3 being able to reasonably compete with SP 28nm assuming the reduced price by 3x is accurate. Even a pessimistic estimation with SP 40nm costing $0.4/gh at the wafer level, a 3x reduction would mean $0.12/gh for their 28nm chips.

IF SP can get their next gen out the door without a hitch, AM might be in for another cold winter..

oh look! someone who didn't just pull numbers out their arse.
Thank you for clarifying what we already knew.

No its not. Primary consideration for package type is its cost, pin count and power delivery. Of course you cant put a bigger die in a package than the package size, but 8x8mm packages are by far the most common and used billions of times (literally) for dies as small as 1-10mm². How big are the dies we are talking about here? Lets have a ballpark guess; HF is getting almost 2GH/mm² on 28nm. If we assume spoonsomething/AM get half that on their older process, then you are looking at ~10mm² dies. It may be 2 or 3x more or less, who knows, but that the package is 64mm² says close to nothing.

But notice how mr sp tech never denied their 40nm wafer costs being more expensive?
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How could he? He doesnt have AM die size or wafer/packaging costs. Not that it matters to them, silicon production cost is only a tiny tiny fraction of overall miner cost/price for all vendors. 

It will be my last post here for a while.

Gen1 ("Hammer") is indeed 0.55W/GHs, which is comparable with AM gen3 results I read here: http://blog.rockminer.com/#!/2014/04/13/Testing_Results_Of_BE200.md
("Power consumption per Ghash:6.375/11.52=0.5539W/Ghash")

You're confusing the "rule of thumb" 30% improvement in power or frequency (40nm -> 28nm) with 2X improvement in area size (cost).
By moving to a larger package (FCBGA 19mmx19mm, the data in our web site is outdated), we've actually reduced price by over 3X

This is gen2 ("RockerBox") brief: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c65ebuvoh5sek2f/rockerbox_brief.pdf

The SP30 (our 2nd gen system) is designed to take advantage of our 2nd gen ASIC (RockerBox) optimal working point (the ASIC brief is attached):

Voltage                                     0.63 V
Total Engines                            193
Max frequency at TT corner         984 MHz
Performance                              90 GHs
Power                                       65 W
Power/performance                    0.34 W/GHs
 
We're using 2 PSUs, each of them is 1.2 KW rated, but can pull up to 1.35 KW

Total system output is expected to be over 6 TH/s:

AC2DC derating: 93%
DC3DC derating: 85%
Fans: 60W

(2700 - 60) * 0.93 * 0.85 / 0.34 ~= 6.1 THs

We're advertising 5.4 THs +- 10%

The gen2 is done deal. We're taping out in 2 weeks, and will deliver working systems in July.

We're now working hard on our gen3. Much more interesting spec ...

Not exactly since package size is relative to die size but I get your point.

But notice how mr sp tech never denied their 40nm wafer costs being more expensive? He simply said that overclocking can compensate and that their 28nm will be more cost effective than AM 40nm.

Which is nearly as useful a metric as saying they both ship in 2U rackmounts...

Not the exact die sizes but they are both in an 8mmx8mm package

Do you have die sizes of both chips, or what are you basing this on?

gen1-3 have each been a few months apart. What makes you think gen4 will take 2 years?

We don't know how AM gen4 will perform compared to SP gen2 because neither exist yet.

What we do know is that AM 40nm is the most efficient asic in existence as of now(by a tiny amount) and much more powerful than spondoolies 40nm (~40% more).

Sure. Like with gen2 and gen3 and with his timing it will be *maybe* 2016

Those preorders are ridiculously priced I don't understand when and where people are going to make a ROI at those rates..

 
And fc will come out with another generation of mining chips that will put all its competitors to shame as he has done so in the past. Haters will hate

Someone is desperate to take some more pre orders

Sure. Because you all are thinking about excuses like  "Friedcat is very busy", every single hour, every single day for past year I am afraid he's not busy at all. Seems to me that competition is working overtimes and our cat is sleeping. Now kill me believers. 

There is nothing wrong with it IMO.

He/they can have a voice on this forum like everyone else. Especially considering we were talking about AM in comparison to their company.

To be honest I would be very concerned if FC was spending time on the forum at all. We all know that's not normal.

We all know Gen3 isn't out yet, just some test samples; I'd be very concerned if I saw friedcat on Spondoolies forum 'straightening things out".

But at 10gh is it still 0.55w/gh at the chip level?


It very well could be but until you have the chips in hand and tested you wont know. And how much is "much much better"?  If it is a simple die shrink that would only be a 30% improvement.

Not my thread, but to set the record straight:

Hammers (our 1st gen) can achieve 10 GHs easily. Tested. May achieve more, not tested.
On the system level, we're 0.8 - 0.9 W/GHs depending on the power mode.

What I'm reading about AM gen3:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6200783
http://blog.rockminer.com/#!/2014/04/13/Testing_Results_Of_BE200.md

One month already and getting 1 KW/THs ?
We're doing better with our 1st gen, with nice margins.

Cost:

You got it completely wrong. Our 2nd gen (RockerBox) is much, much better in term of $/GHs then any 40nm ASIC out there.

With two chips that have nearly identical efficiency are competing, the winner will be the manufacturer with the lowest manufacturing costs.

If AM costs $0.2/gh at the wafer level we can assume spondoolies cost around $0.4/gh considering they both use the same process size and chip fab.

This simply means AM can and will lower the cost of their chips below what spondoolies can afford to.

For example AM can sell chips for $0.4/gh and still profit whereas spondoolies cannot.

i may not have been mining for an extraneous amount of time, but in that time, that I have been mining, I have bought many many different brands and many different manufacturers ASICs, and I have to say, not one compares with the quality of the rig I have hashing at the moment. our good friend's 12" is bigger than my 7.5" - but you feel free to ask my wife, it's not the size of it that matters, it's what you do with it 

again, AM ain't gonna come close to the quality and engineering that Spondoolies have managed, and will continue to manage, for a looooooong time to come.

  mine is bigger than yours 
love it!