Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 826. (Read 3917661 times)
ASICMINER could develop hardware to mine alt coins (eg Litecoin) in the future, which would cost more resources but it is theoretically possible for ASICMINER to exceed the valuation of Bitcoin.
ASICMiner products probably exceed 30% of the hashrate share already. But you have to realize this:
ASICMiner valuation = (ASICMiner hashrate share + ASICMiner customer hashrate share) * mining share of bitcoin valuation * bitcoin valuation
I highly doubt all mining makes up 30% of Bitcoin's industry, let alone a part of mining.
ASICMiner valuation = (ASICMiner hashrate share + ASICMiner customer hashrate share) * mining share of bitcoin valuation * bitcoin valuation
I highly doubt all mining makes up 30% of Bitcoin's industry, let alone a part of mining.
I highly doubt money supply = GDP.
They have different units, so I fail to see how they can even be compared.
You were the one that compared it to "Bitcoin's industry".
Quote
What I'm comparing is money supply to stock supply. If ASICMiner is valued at greater than all BTC combined is valued, then it follows that ASICMiner must have revenues separate from Bitcoin. This is not true, so ASICMiner stock will be capped.
No, it doesn't follow. Both incorporate future expectations into their valuation, so it's not so simple as you imply. They also have vastly different velocities (turnover of shares/coins).
Why would the future value of ASICMiner exceed that of Bitcoin? Unless ASICMiner is expected to make forays into mining diamonds, this doesn't make much sense.
Do you really think everybody who buys mining hardware will turn a profit in bitcoin terms?
ASICMiner products probably exceed 30% of the hashrate share already. But you have to realize this:
ASICMiner valuation = (ASICMiner hashrate share + ASICMiner customer hashrate share) * mining share of bitcoin valuation * bitcoin valuation
I highly doubt all mining makes up 30% of Bitcoin's industry, let alone a part of mining.
ASICMiner valuation = (ASICMiner hashrate share + ASICMiner customer hashrate share) * mining share of bitcoin valuation * bitcoin valuation
I highly doubt all mining makes up 30% of Bitcoin's industry, let alone a part of mining.
I highly doubt money supply = GDP.
They have different units, so I fail to see how they can even be compared.
You were the one that compared it to "Bitcoin's industry".
Quote
What I'm comparing is money supply to stock supply. If ASICMiner is valued at greater than all BTC combined is valued, then it follows that ASICMiner must have revenues separate from Bitcoin. This is not true, so ASICMiner stock will be capped.
No, it doesn't follow. Both incorporate future expectations into their valuation, so it's not so simple as you imply. They also have vastly different velocities (turnover of shares/coins).
Why would the future value of ASICMiner exceed that of Bitcoin? Unless ASICMiner is expected to make forays into mining diamonds, this doesn't make much sense.
Thought experiment:
ASICMiner is valued at 30 million bitcoins and you decide you want to buy the whole company (all of the shares). The board agrees to this and all shareholders are forced to sell their shares at the corresponding price.
(30 million bitcoins divided by 400,000 shares).
How do you actually pay for this since it is impossible to have 30 million bitcoins?
You would need to pay in installments. Perhaps you had 5 million bitcoins in your possession already, and based off of ASICMiner's revenue (which would obviously need to be a lot for such an incredible valuation), you would pay off an additional 5 million bitcoins every 6 months or so, possibly with interest.
At least, that is one way that I could see this working.
ASICMiner is valued at 30 million bitcoins and you decide you want to buy the whole company (all of the shares). The board agrees to this and all shareholders are forced to sell their shares at the corresponding price.
(30 million bitcoins divided by 400,000 shares).
How do you actually pay for this since it is impossible to have 30 million bitcoins?
You would need to pay in installments. Perhaps you had 5 million bitcoins in your possession already, and based off of ASICMiner's revenue (which would obviously need to be a lot for such an incredible valuation), you would pay off an additional 5 million bitcoins every 6 months or so, possibly with interest.
At least, that is one way that I could see this working.
ASICMiner products probably exceed 30% of the hashrate share already. But you have to realize this:
ASICMiner valuation = (ASICMiner hashrate share + ASICMiner customer hashrate share) * mining share of bitcoin valuation * bitcoin valuation
I highly doubt all mining makes up 30% of Bitcoin's industry, let alone a part of mining.
ASICMiner valuation = (ASICMiner hashrate share + ASICMiner customer hashrate share) * mining share of bitcoin valuation * bitcoin valuation
I highly doubt all mining makes up 30% of Bitcoin's industry, let alone a part of mining.
I highly doubt money supply = GDP.
They have different units, so I fail to see how they can even be compared.
You were the one that compared it to "Bitcoin's industry".
Quote
What I'm comparing is money supply to stock supply. If ASICMiner is valued at greater than all BTC combined is valued, then it follows that ASICMiner must have revenues separate from Bitcoin. This is not true, so ASICMiner stock will be capped.
No, it doesn't follow. Both incorporate future expectations into their valuation, so it's not so simple as you imply. They also have vastly different velocities (turnover of shares/coins).
ASICMiner products probably exceed 30% of the hashrate share already. But you have to realize this:
ASICMiner valuation = (ASICMiner hashrate share + ASICMiner customer hashrate share) * mining share of bitcoin valuation * bitcoin valuation
I highly doubt all mining makes up 30% of Bitcoin's industry, let alone a part of mining.
ASICMiner valuation = (ASICMiner hashrate share + ASICMiner customer hashrate share) * mining share of bitcoin valuation * bitcoin valuation
I highly doubt all mining makes up 30% of Bitcoin's industry, let alone a part of mining.
I highly doubt money supply = GDP.
They have different units, so I fail to see how they can even be compared.
What I'm comparing is money supply to stock supply. If ASICMiner is valued at greater than all BTC combined is valued, then it follows that ASICMiner must have revenues separate from Bitcoin. This is not true, so ASICMiner stock will be capped.
ASICMiner products probably exceed 30% of the hashrate share already. But you have to realize this:
ASICMiner valuation = (ASICMiner hashrate share + ASICMiner customer hashrate share) * mining share of bitcoin valuation * bitcoin valuation
I highly doubt all mining makes up 30% of Bitcoin's industry, let alone a part of mining.
ASICMiner valuation = (ASICMiner hashrate share + ASICMiner customer hashrate share) * mining share of bitcoin valuation * bitcoin valuation
I highly doubt all mining makes up 30% of Bitcoin's industry, let alone a part of mining.
I highly doubt money supply = GDP.
I had trouble understanding the timeline form friedcat's post on page 532:
Project Timeline
August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.
What does that timeline refer to? Hardware leasing/franchising, or the actual hardware sales?Can anyone please enlighten? Verb combination Deploy/sell confuses me in particular.
Project Timeline
August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.
What does that timeline refer to? Hardware leasing/franchising, or the actual hardware sales?Can anyone please enlighten? Verb combination Deploy/sell confuses me in particular.
I think Franchising is the Video Arcade Machine model. Arcade machines were often rented out in a similar manner.
For those running to the safety of AM direct shares - I see this as largely unnecessary. In the worst case scenario, in the event that BTCTC is met with a cease and desist or other enforcement action, Friedcat has an updated listing of all of our share allocations, sent twice a day. https://btct.co/faq
I'm not saying there wouldn't be negative ramifications if BTCTC were targeted - surely liquidity and share price would be affected. However, those of us with AM PT shares are not SOL in that case.
*Full disclosure - I own both direct and PT shares and I am not planning on changing my allocations anytime in the near future.
I'm not saying there wouldn't be negative ramifications if BTCTC were targeted - surely liquidity and share price would be affected. However, those of us with AM PT shares are not SOL in that case.
*Full disclosure - I own both direct and PT shares and I am not planning on changing my allocations anytime in the near future.
This is a good point.
Yes, Friedcat is emailed a full shareholder list (includes email and btc address) several times a day. If the servers ever got pulled, he has everything he needs to pull the shares back in-house to direct shares.
I am not certain, but I suspect this is unique to BTCTC. BitFunder has a good approach with publishing the addresses publicly if you turn it on, (if you haven't, do it now.) but does not include emails in that so Friedcat would not have a way to contact users directly. Havelock and 796 I have no idea what is setup. (Anyone know?)
Got that back not sure If I asked the right question haha
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2802839
I had trouble understanding the timeline form friedcat's post on page 532:
Project Timeline
August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.
What does that timeline refer to? Hardware leasing/franchising, or the actual hardware sales?Can anyone please enlighten? Verb combination Deploy/sell confuses me in particular.
Project Timeline
August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.
What does that timeline refer to? Hardware leasing/franchising, or the actual hardware sales?Can anyone please enlighten? Verb combination Deploy/sell confuses me in particular.
Well, as I understand it, "deploy" means mass deployment (either themselves or by franchise) and "sell" means retail sales. Or maybe franchise falls under "sell", but either way "deploy/sell" must include anything you can do with the hashpower.
Yea, that much I figured, but I'd much rather buy my own stuff than lease it tbh, and friedcat's post was too ambiguous to that end. I guess we'll just have to wait.
Can't hate on ASIC Miner for being the pioneer. Competition will prevent them from reaching 51%. Hopefully it won't be an issue anyways. But at some point, there will be more profitable ventures for the company beyond simply mining and competition will continue to erode their hashrate share.
either way "deploy/sell" must include anything you can do with the hashpower.
+1
I think AM already can already be bigger than btcguild, but doing that does not look good for decentalization sake of btc (or even heating up competition), so they are trying to sell hardware at the price that the expected return is pretty close to mining it themselves. But there are competitors out there looking to undercut AM price, like those rogue Avalon chips, or 22mn KNC (if it turns out as promised why don't they just mine them, too f*king generous to be true). The crispy fc "franchise" thing is probably designed to look more attractive customers than hardware sale.
It's like they are sneakily maintaining virtual 30%+ hashrate, by combining solo mining + other means.
It's like they are sneakily maintaining virtual 30%+ hashrate, by combining solo mining + other means.
Train will remain alive and well until the next official hardware announcement... then we'll all be bitching about not buyiing enough shares under BTC6.
Agreed, we've had several stops on this train ride already:
0.5 BTC/share
0.7 BTC/share
1.2 BTC/share
2.5 BTC/share
4.5 BTC/share
Double digits will happen in 2013.
I agree with you.
Train will remain alive and well until the next official hardware announcement... then we'll all be bitching about not buyiing enough shares under BTC6.
Agreed, we've had several stops on this train ride already:
0.5 XBT/share
0.7 XBT/share
1.2 XBT/share
2.5 XBT/share
4.5 XBT/share
Double digits will happen in 2013.
Double digits would entail ASICMiner shares making up 30% of all bitcoins ever mined. Do you really believe ASICMiner is worth that much?
Friedcat's franchise plans on top of the hardware selling implies he's planning to grow way beyond 30% of the hashrate share. Do you want to bet against him?
ASICMiner products probably exceed 30% of the hashrate share already. But you have to realize this:
ASICMiner valuation = (ASICMiner hashrate share + ASICMiner customer hashrate share) * mining share of bitcoin valuation * bitcoin valuation
I highly doubt all mining makes up 30% of Bitcoin's industry, let alone a part of mining.
Train will remain alive and well until the next official hardware announcement... then we'll all be bitching about not buyiing enough shares under BTC6.
Agreed, we've had several stops on this train ride already:
0.5 XBT/share
0.7 XBT/share
1.2 XBT/share
2.5 XBT/share
4.5 XBT/share
Double digits will happen in 2013.
Double digits would entail ASICMiner shares making up 30% of all bitcoins ever mined. Do you really believe ASICMiner is worth that much?
Friedcat's franchise plans on top of the hardware selling implies he's planning to grow way beyond 30% of the hashrate share. Do you want to bet against him?
Train will remain alive and well until the next official hardware announcement... then we'll all be bitching about not buyiing enough shares under BTC6.
Agreed, we've had several stops on this train ride already:
0.5 XBT/share
0.7 XBT/share
1.2 XBT/share
2.5 XBT/share
4.5 XBT/share
Double digits will happen in 2013.
Double digits would entail ASICMiner shares making up 30% of all bitcoins ever mined. Do you really believe ASICMiner is worth that much?
I had trouble understanding the timeline form friedcat's post on page 532:
Project Timeline
August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.
What does that timeline refer to? Hardware leasing/franchising, or the actual hardware sales?Can anyone please enlighten? Verb combination Deploy/sell confuses me in particular.
Project Timeline
August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.
What does that timeline refer to? Hardware leasing/franchising, or the actual hardware sales?Can anyone please enlighten? Verb combination Deploy/sell confuses me in particular.
Well, as I understand it, "deploy" means mass deployment (either themselves or by franchise) and "sell" means retail sales. Or maybe franchise falls under "sell", but either way "deploy/sell" must include anything you can do with the hashpower.
Train will remain alive and well until the next official hardware announcement... then we'll all be bitching about not buyiing enough shares under BTC6.
Agreed, we've had several stops on this train ride already:
0.5 BTC/share
0.7 BTC/share
1.2 BTC/share
2.5 BTC/share
4.5 BTC/share
Double digits will happen in 2013.
I had trouble understanding the timeline form friedcat's post on page 532:
Project Timeline
August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.
What does that timeline refer to? Hardware leasing/franchising, or the actual hardware sales?Can anyone please enlighten? Verb combination Deploy/sell confuses me in particular.
Project Timeline
August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.
What does that timeline refer to? Hardware leasing/franchising, or the actual hardware sales?Can anyone please enlighten? Verb combination Deploy/sell confuses me in particular.
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