Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 983. (Read 3917568 times)
Not if the Federal Reserve no longer exists and USD isn't used, which is not that unlikely when we're talking about 100 years.
on the other hand if every share would be worth 5 BTC, then the company would be worth pretty much 2 000 000 BTC, which is 17 percent of bitcoins in circulation, that would be a lot, some could say too much
There is nothing to fear if a company's worth is greater than all the currency in circulation. "There was approximately $1.19 trillion in circulation as of June 5, 2013, of which $1.15 trillion was in Federal Reserve notes" according to the Federal Reserve: http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm.
The most valuable American company is, I believe, Exxon Mobil with a current enterprise value of $413 billion.
Exxon alone is therefore worth 34.7% of all US dollars outstanding.
And the enterprise value of the Dow 30 (again only 30 companies) is far greater than the total number of US dollars out there.
There will only ever be 21 million bitcoins. There is no upper limit on the value human beings can create when they apply their minds and bodies to creative, productive endeavours. There is no direct correlation between a currency's supply and the value of an economy. (It is only government manipulated variations in supply of currency that can have an impact in causing distortions in economies and thereby create temporary and unsustainable activities in an economy, but that is beside the main point of this message.)
This can be a tricky concept - for example, if ASICMINER became worth BTC22 million, would that be possible? The answer is still yes. Consider, the value of a share is the present value of its future dividends. If the utilization of bitcoin reached a level where there was a high velocity of bitcoins such that the worldwide annual gross transaction value exceeded BTC10 billion, (roughly $1 trillion dollars at today's prices), then a .25% fee applied against that entire number would be worth BTC25 million bitcoin alone per year. If Asicminer retained kits 25% share of mining, it would be able to pay an annual dividend of BTC6 million and would only need to trade at 4 times its dividend price (a dividend yield of 25%!) to have a value in excess of all the bitcoins in circulation. I know we are very far away from having that volume of bitcoin transactions out there. This is more intended as an exercise to show how it is possible for there to be things out there "more valuable than all the money in the world", even in monetary terms. But it's also nice to dream of a day when there would be that kind of transaction volume on bitcoin.
IMHO what you are describing here is exactly one of the problems we have with the current system... creating value out of thin air. A bit of overevaluation is fine, because in the end some companies will succeed, some will fail and we're somewhat even. A classic zero-sum game. An excess of overevaluation however leads to bubbles leads to disasters.
Either way, I'd be very careful in comparing Fiat based enterprises with Bitcoin operations. Right now $413 billion are 34.7% of all USD outstanding, but given inflation it won't stay that way. The volume might increase, but it's always a run from inflation. With Bitcoin however, there's a point where it will stop. Right now there's new coins coming in, but come 50-100 years and there will be 21,000,000 BTC. End. Who knows how many USD will be out there by then? They will just keep coming and coming...
hi guys, looking for the friedcat t-shirts... the black ones with the cat in the pan. I had the link in a tab somewhere but can't find it, and a quick search took me to this one which is not what I'm looking for:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/friedcat-fan-t-shirt-dividends-tomorrow-232150
if anyone has the link to hand please let me know, PM is cool...
thanks
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd it's gone!
Wow that is crazy. Thought I could steal some cheap shares while most people are sleeping... but by the time my coins were confirmed it was gone.
Wild West of Crypto, anything can and eventually will happen. I fought off sleep last night in an attempt to pick up some PT's under 2.7, purchased my last tranche right before I passed right the hell out. Woke up to this sight, not bad.
Not bad at all. Let the tsunami commence!
there's like $12K on BF before 2.8, too
uh, well, not any more...
$1k has been eaten so far on havelock
We are looking at 3BTC/share this weekend Boys n Girls.
Think so? People like selling shares after divs because they have funds to trade. I see 3 BTC next Wednesday, this weekend might be a little early.
For direct shares, I believe many holders will wait until this price is met. Many have conveyed as much and frankly I cannot blame them with the outlook of the company right now. I see that sell wall on Havelock @ 2.7 and wonder if it will last a full day.
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd it's gone!
Wow that is crazy. Thought I could steal some cheap shares while most people are sleeping... but by the time my coins were confirmed it was gone.
Money never sleeps
there's like $12K on BF before 2.8, too
uh, well, not any more...
$1k has been eaten so far on havelock
We are looking at 3BTC/share this weekend Boys n Girls.
Think so? People like selling shares after divs because they have funds to trade. I see 3 BTC next Wednesday, this weekend might be a little early.
For direct shares, I believe many holders will wait until this price is met. Many have conveyed as much and frankly I cannot blame them with the outlook of the company right now. I see that sell wall on Havelock @ 2.7 and wonder if it will last a full day.
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd it's gone!
Wow that is crazy. Thought I could steal some cheap shares while most people are sleeping... but by the time my coins were confirmed it was gone.
(Intro Post)
Phew - managed to read all 377 pages in around 24 hrs. Favorite line was:
"First $100M company without a website."
Not just because it was funny, but because its a nicely contrarian concept in the internet era that you can still build a $100M internet business in under a year without a website, particularly apt when every Mom+Pop store has been told for 10 years "you must have a website, everyone has a website these days". Wrong, and demonstrably, not needed!
Other quick points:
1) Difference between AM and BFL light and day. I read one thread where BFL_JOSH was having a slanging match with a potential customer. His language and attitude was of a 13-year old with behavioural difficulties, not a CEO. Its very easy to see why BFL don't deliver if that is the quality of people they have. Whereas friedcat has been polite, to the point, honest in every single post. Props to friedcat, and all his staff.
2) I think the T-shirt should have been a Chinese-style Wok to fry the cat in, but its still cool, sure friedcat isn't bothered either way
3) I wish I had come across AM even a few months ago, instead of yesterday, then I could have got shares for 1BTC or something instead of the 2.5BTC I paid yesterday. But I don't have a time machine any more, Stewie Griffen stole it.
4) I wish I had bought shares on a Tuesday instead of Thursday, live and learn ;-)
Congrats to everyone that got in at the IPO, but even at 2.5, I think there is plenty of room for expansion, because friedcat has delivered on everything. That is very very rare in any start-up.
I'm in this for the long-term, and nice to meet fellow AM shareholders. You're an entertainining group of indidividuals, and as pointed out, great chartists!!
cheers,
Phew - managed to read all 377 pages in around 24 hrs. Favorite line was:
"First $100M company without a website."
Not just because it was funny, but because its a nicely contrarian concept in the internet era that you can still build a $100M internet business in under a year without a website, particularly apt when every Mom+Pop store has been told for 10 years "you must have a website, everyone has a website these days". Wrong, and demonstrably, not needed!
Other quick points:
1) Difference between AM and BFL light and day. I read one thread where BFL_JOSH was having a slanging match with a potential customer. His language and attitude was of a 13-year old with behavioural difficulties, not a CEO. Its very easy to see why BFL don't deliver if that is the quality of people they have. Whereas friedcat has been polite, to the point, honest in every single post. Props to friedcat, and all his staff.
2) I think the T-shirt should have been a Chinese-style Wok to fry the cat in, but its still cool, sure friedcat isn't bothered either way
3) I wish I had come across AM even a few months ago, instead of yesterday, then I could have got shares for 1BTC or something instead of the 2.5BTC I paid yesterday. But I don't have a time machine any more, Stewie Griffen stole it.
4) I wish I had bought shares on a Tuesday instead of Thursday, live and learn ;-)
Congrats to everyone that got in at the IPO, but even at 2.5, I think there is plenty of room for expansion, because friedcat has delivered on everything. That is very very rare in any start-up.
I'm in this for the long-term, and nice to meet fellow AM shareholders. You're an entertainining group of indidividuals, and as pointed out, great chartists!!
cheers,
Nice to meet you too! As someone who has also read (almost) every post in this thread, I agree with you about BFL, the professionalism of friedcat/ASICMINER/Bitfountain, the shareholders, the room for expansion... and especially the time machine!
I was lucky enough to have read it right around the time that the chips were finished, and shares started being traded OTC... for BTC0.5. I bough a couple hundred shares at that price, when Bitcoin was ~13 USD... obviously the best investment in my life. It pains me to do the math of what the brilliant people who bought thousands of shares at the IPO are worth now... amazing stuff. They took a risk and they turned thousands in to millions... hazaa to them, well deserved.
Imagine what Bitcoin would look like right now if the ASICMINER IPO had failed. Say GLBSE had thrown in the towel before friedcat could do it. Things would look a lot different.
there's like $12K on BF before 2.8, too
uh, well, not any more...
$1k has been eaten so far on havelock
We are looking at 3BTC/share this weekend Boys n Girls.
Think so? People like selling shares after divs because they have funds to trade. I see 3 BTC next Wednesday, this weekend might be a little early.
For direct shares, I believe many holders will wait until this price is met. Many have conveyed as much and frankly I cannot blame them with the outlook of the company right now. I see that sell wall on Havelock @ 2.7 and wonder if it will last a full day.
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd it's gone!
on the other hand if every share would be worth 5 BTC, then the company would be worth pretty much 2 000 000 BTC, which is 17 percent of bitcoins in circulation, that would be a lot, some could say too much
There is nothing to fear if a company's worth is greater than all the currency in circulation. "There was approximately $1.19 trillion in circulation as of June 5, 2013, of which $1.15 trillion was in Federal Reserve notes" according to the Federal Reserve: http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm.
The most valuable American company is, I believe, Exxon Mobil with a current enterprise value of $413 billion.
Exxon alone is therefore worth 34.7% of all US dollars outstanding.
And the enterprise value of the Dow 30 (again only 30 companies) is far greater than the total number of US dollars out there.
There will only ever be 21 million bitcoins. There is no upper limit on the value human beings can create when they apply their minds and bodies to creative, productive endeavours. There is no direct correlation between a currency's supply and the value of an economy. (It is only government manipulated variations in supply of currency that can have an impact in causing distortions in economies and thereby create temporary and unsustainable activities in an economy, but that is beside the main point of this message.)
This can be a tricky concept - for example, if ASICMINER became worth BTC22 million, would that be possible? The answer is still yes. Consider, the value of a share is the present value of its future dividends. If the utilization of bitcoin reached a level where there was a high velocity of bitcoins such that the worldwide annual gross transaction value exceeded BTC10 billion, (roughly $1 trillion dollars at today's prices), then a .25% fee applied against that entire number would be worth BTC25 million bitcoin alone per year. If Asicminer retained kits 25% share of mining, it would be able to pay an annual dividend of BTC6 million and would only need to trade at 4 times its dividend price (a dividend yield of 25%!) to have a value in excess of all the bitcoins in circulation. I know we are very far away from having that volume of bitcoin transactions out there. This is more intended as an exercise to show how it is possible for there to be things out there "more valuable than all the money in the world", even in monetary terms. But it's also nice to dream of a day when there would be that kind of transaction volume on bitcoin.
I hope the facilties are being taken care of by a good security team. Not to be a tinfoilhatter but the more success you have, the more enemies you make. Certain people would be very happy now if the AsicMiner hashing farm were to *accidentally* blow up.
Sure, but AM has been the farm to watch for a while now. I don't the risk of being blow up has appreciated considerably just because of the last week or two.
Still, a plant somewhere else on the planet would sense. Many major electronics companies (Sony, Seagate) suffered heavily when the Thai eastern seaboard flooded a year or two back and took out all kinds of kit that wasn't being made anywhere else.
I hope the facilties are being taken care of by a good security team. Not to be a tinfoilhatter but the more success you have, the more enemies you make. Certain people would be very happy now if the AsicMiner hashing farm were to *accidentally* blow up.
only 17%? we are mining atleast 20% and can easily mine more! plus we get more from transaction fees, plus more from hw sales! i think 17% of all bitcoins is a bit low lols
alright, then the share price should be 5 BTC
on a side note - it seems that ASICMINER has now all the hashrate on solomining, I don't see any hashrate left on BTCGuild...
only 17%? we are mining atleast 20% and can easily mine more! plus we get more from transaction fees, plus more from hw sales! i think 17% of all bitcoins is a bit low lols
We're not going to 3 BTC guys...
We're going to 3.5 BTC. How long did it stay 2 BTC? Not very. Enthusiasm brings us to a middle-ground. We see 3 BTC. We want 4 BTC. We settle for 3.5 BTC.
At a price of 5 BTC this share gives you a rock solid yearly return of more than 20%. This is from mining alone. Considering the growth potential, the value cannot be undererestimated. Probably in the 10 to 15 range.We're going to 3.5 BTC. How long did it stay 2 BTC? Not very. Enthusiasm brings us to a middle-ground. We see 3 BTC. We want 4 BTC. We settle for 3.5 BTC.
on the other hand if every share would be worth 5 BTC, then the company would be worth pretty much 2 000 000 BTC, which is 17 percent of bitcoins in circulation, that would be a lot, some could say too much
nothing wrong with too much..
We're not going to 3 BTC guys...
We're going to 3.5 BTC. How long did it stay 2 BTC? Not very. Enthusiasm brings us to a middle-ground. We see 3 BTC. We want 4 BTC. We settle for 3.5 BTC.
At a price of 5 BTC this share gives you a rock solid yearly return of more than 20%. This is from mining alone. Considering the growth potential, the value cannot be undererestimated. Probably in the 10 to 15 range.We're going to 3.5 BTC. How long did it stay 2 BTC? Not very. Enthusiasm brings us to a middle-ground. We see 3 BTC. We want 4 BTC. We settle for 3.5 BTC.
on the other hand if every share would be worth 5 BTC, then the company would be worth pretty much 2 000 000 BTC, which is 17 percent of bitcoins in circulation, that would be a lot, some could say too much
We're not going to 3 BTC guys...
We're going to 3.5 BTC. How long did it stay 2 BTC? Not very. Enthusiasm brings us to a middle-ground. We see 3 BTC. We want 4 BTC. We settle for 3.5 BTC.
At a price of 5 BTC this share gives you a rock solid yearly return of more than 20%. This is from mining alone. Considering the growth potential, the value cannot be undererestimated. Probably in the 10 to 15 range. We're going to 3.5 BTC. How long did it stay 2 BTC? Not very. Enthusiasm brings us to a middle-ground. We see 3 BTC. We want 4 BTC. We settle for 3.5 BTC.
A couple pages back I mentioned I was buying ASICMiner puts with a 90 day expiration, a strike of 1.8BTC, and a premium of 0.14BTC.
I've been (unsurprisingly) getting more interest about this after the price spike. I obviously cannot offer the same deal after the price spike. Based on the new price of 2.8, I am offering the following:
Buying puts with 90 day exp, strike of 1.95BTC, and premium of 0.14BTC. BTCT preferred.
I've been (unsurprisingly) getting more interest about this after the price spike. I obviously cannot offer the same deal after the price spike. Based on the new price of 2.8, I am offering the following:
Buying puts with 90 day exp, strike of 1.95BTC, and premium of 0.14BTC. BTCT preferred.
Not just because it was funny, but because its a nicely contrarian concept in the internet era that you can still build a $100M internet business in under a year without a website, particularly apt when every Mom+Pop store has been told for 10 years "you must have a website, everyone has a website these days". Wrong, and demonstrably, not needed!
I disagree.AM managed to prosper without a site because his competitors were either utter incompetents or at least quite slow: since AM actually delivered, people bought into that.
However not having a proper website - in general - hurts your potential and current customers, searching for informations about you.
The fact that AM has de facto monopoly over Bitcoin ASICs (not counting the vapour ones, of course), has much lessened this "problem".
We're not going to 3 BTC guys...
We're going to 3.5 BTC. How long did it stay 2 BTC? Not very. Enthusiasm brings us to a middle-ground. We see 3 BTC. We want 4 BTC. We settle for 3.5 BTC.
We're going to 3.5 BTC. How long did it stay 2 BTC? Not very. Enthusiasm brings us to a middle-ground. We see 3 BTC. We want 4 BTC. We settle for 3.5 BTC.
But of course
We're not going to 3 BTC guys...
We're going to 3.5 BTC. How long did it stay 2 BTC? Not very. Enthusiasm brings us to a middle-ground. We see 3 BTC. We want 4 BTC. We settle for 3.5 BTC.
We're going to 3.5 BTC. How long did it stay 2 BTC? Not very. Enthusiasm brings us to a middle-ground. We see 3 BTC. We want 4 BTC. We settle for 3.5 BTC.
Jump to: