"Avalon" ASIC, announcement & pre-order. pre-order over. project started. - page 25.

Bogart

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ngzhang on September 22, 2012, 11:11:06 AM

Quote from: Bogart on September 21, 2012, 10:35:29 PM

Quote from: ngzhang on September 17, 2012, 02:48:26 AM

after a long time, we finally finished our research and emulation. now it's time to go.

Q: How many of the 7 steps described in the Standard-cell Design section of the article are you saying have been completed? All of them?

will finish all of them before 10.20

How many are done right now?

Quote from: Bogart on September 21, 2012, 10:35:29 PM

Quote from: ngzhang on September 17, 2012, 02:48:26 AM

Q: I am also assuming that you plan to use a Multi Project Wafer, as described near the end of the article, where your project shares a mask with a bunch of other small projects. Is this correct?

no. MPW is only a step of this project, for the sample batch. finally we will have a full wafer.

I suppose that gives you the chance to make revisions to the mask should something turn out to need revising before producing whole wafers. That sounds good.

ngzhang

hero member

Activity: 592

Merit: 501

We will stand and fight.

Quote from: Bogart on September 21, 2012, 10:35:29 PM

I wonder if you could answer some more questions about the project,

I have been reading the wikipedia article about ASICs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application-specific_integrated_circuit

Q: I assume you will be using the Standard-cell Design described in the article. Is this correct?

A: yes

Quote from: ngzhang on September 17, 2012, 02:48:26 AM

after a long time, we finally finished our research and emulation. now it's time to go.

Q: How many of the 7 steps described in the Standard-cell Design section of the article are you saying have been completed? All of them?

will finish all of them before 10.20

Q: I am also assuming that you plan to use a Multi Project Wafer, as described near the end of the article, where your project shares a mask with a bunch of other small projects. Is this correct?

no. MPW is only a step of this project, for the sample batch. finally we will have a full wafer.

Quote from: ngzhang on September 17, 2012, 02:48:26 AM

1, an introduction & pre-order website for out-China customers will online around 9.23. multiple payment methods are acceptable.

Q: Will the finished products ship from China?

yes

Quote from: ngzhang on September 17, 2012, 02:48:26 AM

2, this Project will handle by a highly experienced team, they have 10+ years of ASIC development experience, include all design process. also, they are very trustworthy, their leader is one of my teachers.

Q: Can you tell us about the team? How many members are on it, and who does what?

sorry, no. this information is strictly confidential. .

Please forgive the large number of questions, but I would love to see them answered before investing such a large sum in the development of the product.

psilan

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

ROFL COUNTER

Tyger

full member

Activity: 141

Merit: 102

@Ngzang, same question do you ship from China? because export costs from China are low.
Secondly buying the chips instead of the board would be an nice option so we can create own hardware too.

yxt

legendary

Activity: 3528

Merit: 1116

pls accept CC

Transisto

donator

Activity: 1731

Merit: 1008

Quote from: disclaimer201 on September 22, 2012, 03:47:42 AM

Quote from: Syke on September 21, 2012, 07:17:40 PM

ngzhang is a good guy. But the trouble with these 100% funded pre-orders is the potential for total loss, whether on purpose (scam) or not (accidental). I would consider paying a small downpayment, but I'm not paying for a non-existent product.

+1 A small downpayment of maybe 10% would be acceptable for each unit ordered. I'm almost certain you'd get orders in the hundreds more than if you had people pay in full if you did it this way. You'd also boost your reputation, become hero of the small time miners in establishing healthy business practices again, and could possibly win over many of the BFL customers for giving them a viable alternative.

It's 100% refundable. People charge 20% down on part orders, 25% for restocking fee, 50% on contractor jobs, this also require development from an experienced team, nearly at production cost.

They're 150% of BFL at 1300$, I don't think 1999$ will stand though.

disclaimer201

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Syke on September 21, 2012, 07:17:40 PM

ngzhang is a good guy. But the trouble with these 100% funded pre-orders is the potential for total loss, whether on purpose (scam) or not (accidental). I would consider paying a small downpayment, but I'm not paying for a non-existent product.

+1 A small downpayment of maybe 10% would be acceptable for each unit ordered. I'm almost certain you'd get orders in the hundreds more than if you had people pay in full if you did it this way. You'd also boost your reputation, become hero of the small time miners in establishing healthy business practices again, and could possibly win over many of the BFL customers for giving them a viable alternative.

Transisto

donator

Activity: 1731

Merit: 1008

Will you accept MtGox codes for payments ?

I've already sold my BTCs in preparation of a big sell off.

19 hours to go ... Cheesy

Bogart

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

I wonder if you could answer some more questions about the project,

I have been reading the wikipedia article about ASICs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application-specific_integrated_circuit

Q: I assume you will be using the Standard-cell Design described in the article. Is this correct?

Quote from: ngzhang on September 17, 2012, 02:48:26 AM

after a long time, we finally finished our research and emulation. now it's time to go.

Q: How many of the 7 steps described in the Standard-cell Design section of the article are you saying have been completed? All of them?

Q: I am also assuming that you plan to use a Multi Project Wafer, as described near the end of the article, where your project shares a mask with a bunch of other small projects. Is this correct?

Quote from: ngzhang on September 17, 2012, 02:48:26 AM

1, an introduction & pre-order website for out-China customers will online around 9.23. multiple payment methods are acceptable.

Q: Will the finished products ship from China?

Quote from: ngzhang on September 17, 2012, 02:48:26 AM

2, this Project will handle by a highly experienced team, they have 10+ years of ASIC development experience, include all design process. also, they are very trustworthy, their leader is one of my teachers.

Q: Can you tell us about the team? How many members are on it, and who does what?

Please forgive the large number of questions, but I would love to see them answered before investing such a large sum in the development of the product.

kano

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: Bogart on September 21, 2012, 07:54:29 PM

Quote from: ngzhang on September 17, 2012, 02:48:26 AM

We are taking orders for the “initial batch run”. They will be only 300 units available for pre-order. again, the price is $1,299 per unit.

I have heard people say [in other threads] that it takes millions to make an ASIC.

Is $389,700 really going to be sufficient to fund everything that will need to be funded to do this?

Don't believe everything you read ...

Bogart

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ngzhang on September 17, 2012, 02:48:26 AM

We are taking orders for the “initial batch run”. They will be only 300 units available for pre-order. again, the price is $1,299 per unit.

I have heard people say [in other threads] that it takes millions to make an ASIC.

Is $389,700 really going to be sufficient to fund everything that will need to be funded to do this?

Syke

legendary

Activity: 3878

Merit: 1193

ngzhang is a good guy. But the trouble with these 100% funded pre-orders is the potential for total loss, whether on purpose (scam) or not (accidental). I would consider paying a small downpayment, but I'm not paying for a non-existent product.

disclaimer201

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1001

Didn't know about the credit card chargeback time, if this is the case I'd feel a bit safer to send funds. Maybe I will make use of the offer for 2k bucks when the Asics actually exist.

On a related note please take a look at this thread on BFL's CEO being a convicted felon. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/re-butterfly-labs-ceo-25-million-usd-mail-fraud-a-concise-summary-of-evidence-110805

Doesn't make me feel better about sending money to anyone, even to someone with a good reputation. Once upon a time Mr. Tong Zhou also had a wonderful reputation in this community, and even paid back people in full for the first "hack" on Bitcoinica. I know I'm paranoid, but the amount of fraud in Bitcoin related businesses is sickening, you will have to admit.

nedbert9

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Inactive

Quote from: theasian09 on September 21, 2012, 04:00:49 PM

I really dont get why people are bothering to post that they wont pre-order without paypal or CC. Bitcoin is inherently guarantee-less. If you have a problem with that why are you here?

I havent been on the forums very long but from my time here ive seen that the OP is very active, provides great support for his product and was as open as possible, providing regular updates. If I had the $ id pre-order in a heartbeat.

Full disclosure: I do not currently own or have any pre order business with nzghang.

He's one of the examples of a having a good, appropriately transparent relationship with the mining community.

You will notice that the popular conspiracists of the Bitcoin forum don't loiter here just because of the high amount of quality communication with the community as it relates to his projects.

If you look at his work with FPGA's you'll see that his technical competence is on the level with some of the best contributions to the Bitcoin community.

I hope we all realize that there are only a few thousand miners. We are indeed as small, niche community. In reality, together, this small community can make or break specialty mining hardware vendors. So, make your purchase decision carefully when looking at all of the options.

It's unfortunate that we'll have to wait a few months to see Avalon.

theasian09

newbie

Activity: 19

Merit: 0

I really dont get why people are bothering to post that they wont pre-order without paypal or CC. Bitcoin is inherently guarantee-less. If you have a problem with that why are you here?

I havent been on the forums very long but from my time here ive seen that the OP is very active, provides great support for his product and was as open as possible, providing regular updates. If I had the $ id pre-order in a heartbeat.

malevolent

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 1724

Quote from: ngzhang on September 21, 2012, 04:43:44 AM

but, as far as i know, it there such a low salary in EU now? 700USD a month? Shocked

Yes, and there are countries in EU with even lower salaries.

For example in Bulgaria the avg monthly wage is around 300 Euro and the minimum (by law) is 100 Euro. This is what people get after taxes. It is similar in Romania which is also in the EU.
On the other hand in western Europe the minimum wage is around 1200€ but then again those countries will have a much higher gross government debt to GDP.

Syke

legendary

Activity: 3878

Merit: 1193

Quote from: disclaimer201 on September 21, 2012, 03:02:05 PM

How many weeks after purchase could you make a claim with the credit card company or paypal at all? 6 weeks? We are talking about months here. So, useless in 2013.

Credit card companies love to do chargebacks, so 6 months is not unusual. Even after that, just give them a call and they'll rip the funds right out of the merchant's account no questions asked. Assuming the merchant is still in business...

malevolent

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 1724

Quote from: disclaimer201 on September 21, 2012, 03:02:05 PM

How many weeks after purchase could you make a claim with the credit card company or paypal at all? 6 weeks? We are talking about months here. So, useless in 2013.

In theory, it is possible to chargeback CC up to 180 days.

disclaimer201

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1001

How many weeks after purchase could you make a claim with the credit card company or paypal at all? 6 weeks? We are talking about months here. So, useless in 2013.

Bogart

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: disclaimer201 on September 21, 2012, 02:51:08 PM

Quote from: flynn on September 21, 2012, 02:45:51 PM

Quote from: tbcoin on September 21, 2012, 02:41:37 PM

I've paid my BFL ASIC pre-order with paypal ... Huh

Hu ho, someone is not playing by the rules ?

Paypal is not an issue here. But pre-orders are imo. Not accepting Paypal is the only way to go. Not only is it a well-known fact that paypal is 'evil' but I never understood why people are even interested in Bitcoin if they see nothing wrong with paypal.

I believe the idea is to "insure" your preorder such that you have some recourse should things turn sour. Paypal has some measures in place to protect buyers if the unthinkable does happen, and so do the credit card issuers that these same buyers are likely to use to fund their purchase-via-paypal so as to be doubly protected.

On the flip-side, paypal themselves have policies in place (like the 20 day preorder time limit) to protect themselves from being taken advantage of and having to pay out buyer protection money too often.

Topic: "Avalon" ASIC, announcement & pre-order. pre-order over. project started. - page 25. (Read 98447 times)