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Topic: Avalon ASIC Batch #2 Income Sharing; arrived and hashing - page 9. (Read 23480 times)

sr. member
Activity: 411
Merit: 250
I think prioritizing BTC return is more important than hashing on an alt chain

Check the "Ratio vs. BTC" column:

http://dustcoin.com/mining

Ratio will change by the time machine starts hashing, but still it is possible mining altcoins would return BTC faster than mining BTC itself. Time will tell.

For me personally it's not about the return I can get right now, but about what I think has the longer-term chance. Bitcoin has the mind share of cryptocurrency and I think it's the one that will go for the long haul and eventually be worth more down the road. That's why my position is to prioritize BTC mining over alt-chains, but if we can do merged mining without sacrificing BTC returns it would provide an additional benefit in the short term.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
I think prioritizing BTC return is more important than hashing on an alt chain

Check the "Ratio vs. BTC" column:

http://dustcoin.com/mining

Ratio will change by the time machine starts hashing, but still it is possible mining altcoins would return BTC faster than mining BTC itself. Time will tell.

I will mine bitcoin.
sr. member
Activity: 411
Merit: 250
I have heard that p2pool has trouble with ASICs, not sure why though, so I would investigate that first. I think prioritizing BTC return is more important than hashing on an alt chain, so personally I'd like to go that direction. With that, I think a PPS pool would be wasting money because our hash rate should be enough to take the risk on ourselves instead of the pool operators, and out of the 4 options you provided, I would prefer OzCoin because of the low fee for DGM mining.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
Could we have an open debate about the pools machine will be mining at? I think it is important matter, given not all pools are the same. My favourite
combination for pools is the following, sorted by pool overall effectivness:

1. BitParking - 4 coins merge mined, payout addresses bound to account, 2.5% PPS, minimum payout 0.1 for each coin
2. OzCoin - BTC + NMC merge mined, 1% DGM, 2% POT, 3% PPS, minimum payout 0.1 for each coin
3. BTCGuild - BTC + NMC merge mined, payout addresses can be locked, 5% PPS, minimum payout 0.1 for each coin
4. 50BTC - only bitcoins mined, payout address can be locked, 3% PPS, minimum payout 0.01 BTC

IMO machine should be setup for at least 4 pools with solo mining or P2P pool as the last failover option.

Comments welcomed.

I certainly welcome open debate.  I will review the debate closely.  I will accept the results as a recommendation. 
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
Does anybody know if there is a way to see which addresses are bidding which amounts and what the current winning addresses are without writing it down and calculating manually? When the bidding is close to closing it will probably be busy and manually calculating every transaction could take time that will otherwise be spent bidding.

The ideal thing is for me to have software that will harvest the blockchain and make database entries.

Code:
Hand Constructed, please audit.
I will be on a business trip most of the week of 4/15.  Updates will be delayed.

5 18qDhkReMuFfciHshdpQhr3QhXZp82aWon 1.21000000  <-- current winners
1 12peTunkkUp88aRaUgndRBzPNSrEw3PDu7 1.17000000
2 1JzMp55NW22xjEE4QKUhN5iAmKyFnJSUDg 1.16950000
1 1Fu4JaynbQrtkSPN73uoDqEPAxyzVfsqLu 1.16010000
2 1Gor6F9rMXUhbKGT9iYRKpa4U4tW94Ycq8 1.16000000
3 1EkWkthDoxCXTyxRYVjtnmq13e8SbQNbs2 1.15000000
2 1NFtyTwefVtHXbxCPVZBG9H6SrujTxk4G6 1.15000000
5 18jpEzLGFYeT4nACAUs5zrY2cDSwBXWVAt 1.14698120
4 1cCXNG5mNFkErBWtCLaVLA9fZrGAzFCB1 1.10000000
3 1PnAWB2opLVyGFUmaCeyjdFZ3w88PgPbmb 1.10000000

2 1CwLwBgR16urEkcL5Su3LkzA7RYYqyjHy4 1.00000001  <-- These bidders have sent multiple increases.
3 1LktD4cXPmcJ75Sd2WgRs69rBZqNQd5L4P 0.97000000        Keeping their bid a while in case they bid more.

2 13shEJVGamWDu1qkAjbjD8g62hacPFmjQc 0.00000000
2 14pDJaE7qWXgLAS4RbpVyq4ebsUPXEBXNa 0.00000000
2 16NUNbUCieHLZGVoGdCP7Uzp5pxDNp35UT 0.00000000
2 1Aby6bNLfydieYGkLaMVd6BJjHrAaBsLMR 0.00000000
2 1AFA4ppBvYpdiDFidFUGsWo6nn2NTdAvzZ 0.00000000
2 1AFuCJXLNZEF2ktFw1WWgvo7guUghtino8 0.00000000
2 1BnYjPuUek6kSZYprV7KwZCEh5Fdt5EtSX 0.00000000
2 1CpXQhWptbYu4AAsmiEcos9f7rPgDHdALs 0.00000000
2 1F2472ponJGqDyKNLgFKPnFdXfXT46Hx3Y 0.00000000
2 1F79KrkTVrGSoHX8j52axHUZi66utRnmzZ 0.00000000
2 1FrpnnbV98mMVDk7xfvRYNkMdiVkHeo4CL 0.00000000
2 1GZzn1wN2SN1XF6zo6CkLh77tQGqTYJS46 0.00000000
2 1HWdsr5FjadLMFiaZZvS4YqXpR4aQwDTHX 0.00000000
2 1HZrAsW7i1P5TVrVxWmwxZyiKqyMsw1rC5 0.00000000
2 1LaMr73WuPknQqcnYx5B49hUV3njXtGkzv 0.00000000
3 1LsZV1sNMnrvgGqgg1WYeaJ4Bbjm3ZkMoL 0.00000000
2 1MaMD7C4zAYxZybmB87CgJKhojt97G7TAr 0.00000000
2 1nAmPPmyDkvd5FJscJhDZ4te9tFvaD4BS 0.00000000
2 1QKKFsCXYv1Ya2qyCiQGC2MVfioKon9w3L 0.00000000
1 1Q8nr8o5s9ZQfVy94EspjdpjteqqQmD1K -0.01507825

A Batch #2 Avalon is selling for BTC 150.  Bid high, I can get another.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
Does anybody know if there is a way to see which addresses are bidding which amounts and what the current winning addresses are without writing it down and calculating manually? When the bidding is close to closing it will probably be busy and manually calculating every transaction could take time that will otherwise be spent bidding.

My hope is that some of the low level commands in bitcoind can handle this.  I am busy with some pressing RL issues (RL is Second Life slang for Real Life, and by extension my not-bitcoin day activities)

If anyone can code this up for the RPC interaction with bitcoind, I will be appreciative.  Else, I will do something, but not Thur or Fri.

-----
It turns out that some commands submitted to bitcoind can start this process.

1.  bitcoind listtransactions "Avalon Auction" > list-of-transactions.txt
2.  bitcoind getrawtransaction   1 > getrawtransaction-1.txt
3.  inspect and locate "vin" and txid vout
4.  bitcoind getrawtransaction 1 > getrawtransaction-2.txt

Now all the information is plastered all over these files.  It has to be parsed and checked for coherency.
Then put into a web database.


sr. member
Activity: 411
Merit: 250
Does anybody know if there is a way to see which addresses are bidding which amounts and what the current winning addresses are without writing it down and calculating manually? When the bidding is close to closing it will probably be busy and manually calculating every transaction could take time that will otherwise be spent bidding.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
0.5 BTC placed earlier received. 3x 0.75 BTC placed, this time as requested.

Welcome back.  Thank you for your confidence.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
I have returned his total of 0.4 BTC.  I used the address that was one of the inputs, and is also the address that his change went to in all those transactions.

0.1 BTC less than I sent total, since there were 5 transactions. Unless those remaining 0.1 BTC are valid bid, send them back as well, thanks!

I decided to do bidding properly over multiple MultiBit wallets. Major pain in the a55, but still better than messing with blockchain.info or Armory. Bids will be placed soon.

I have now sent 2 transactions totaling 0.5 BTC.

I am referencing these 5 incoming transactions

1df1ccf5d0f1f59d813d4283648a68ae3fb3db7f04697b9b2b0141cc954ab38f
d61a16dd4f407c493f70b022aee1d9266c01d617c7884be2312778634300948b
efe4576ba042ff44bf486dffd13c841bfc563da95ac88736ee5d066f9dccf732
30047845d2cdb04d3ade84f5a2d004a80aaaff01f9198861285191234237a897
36004fdfa95f8b1b7fb7481014d0c7b489d5f11ab53b7fb2da953b180d1e336e

Thank you for attempting to place a bid.  I would welcome a bid made from a single address if you choose to make one.

hero member
Activity: 845
Merit: 609
ProfMac -

Might help for you to post a daily highest bets. Lots of clutter and hard for me to tell the highest bets.

From the looks 0.1 is the highest?

TJ
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
What are there bids with several 'from' addresses (and how are those even generated)?  Aren't bidders supposed to use a single from address?

One person made all those bids.  He is using bitcoin-QT, and it is difficult to send payments from only 1 address with that client.  I have returned his total of 0.4 BTC.  I used the address that was one of the inputs, and is also the address that his change went to in all those transactions.

I think the easiest way to make a conforming transaction is to send funds to an address at blockchain.info.  That web page lets you pay from a selected address to 1 address.  I discovered that when I was trying to keep an audit trail before I sent out 56 BTC for the Avalon purchase.

He does not trust blockchain.info, and wants to keep funds in a wallet that he protects.  A suggestion was made that he send only enough funds to blockchain.info to pay for the bids that he intends to make, and then his only exposure will be for the few minutes it takes to do the transaction.  I had the sense that this arrangement was also unsatisfactory to him.

There is also another multi pay bid for a total of about 15 Satoshis.  That one is mine, for testing purposes.  I should have done the test with throw away addresses, I apologize for the clutter.

full member
Activity: 122
Merit: 100
What are there bids with several 'from' addresses (and how are those even generated)?  Aren't bidders supposed to use a single from address?
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
48 hour notice is fine, but there is no incentive for me to bid early. i'll place my bids when the 48 hours is announced!

TJ

In the off chance that the Avalon Batch #3 is re-opened for purchase, I would consider it a strong event.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
ProfMac,

Congrats on your success! You have inspired me to do the same with mine, and to auction it most similarly to how the forum auctions off advertising space: 50 slots available, 1 slot = 1% of income from the 85GH/s rig. This will allow people to get half their own Avalon for potentially as cheap as 25 BTC!

Keep us posted on how well yours goes! I see a lot of potential scams going on here with these resells and I want to know just how many of them are legit.

Welcome, thanks, and happy auctioneering!




hero member
Activity: 845
Merit: 609
48 hour notice is fine, but there is no incentive for me to bid early. i'll place my bids when the 48 hours is announced!

TJ
full member
Activity: 122
Merit: 100
I'm pretty sure you can send from specific addresses with Bitcoin-qt using the command line version but not with the GUI.

I like the idea of having a 24-48 hour notice of the end of the auction posted.  Great stuff Prof!

subSTRATA: It's easy enough to set up a blockchain.info wallet and just use it for bidding.  Send what you need to the blockchain wallet and then distribute it to Prof for the auction bids.  After that you won't have anything sitting 'out there' to risk, the rest of your funds still sit in your local wallet.

Also, a little friendly criticism... there's pages of stuff in this thread involving your misunderstandings, lack of comprehension, complaints, etc. that could have been avoided if you just READ what Prof wrote earlier.  If a newb like me can get it, it's not that hard.   Undecided
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
You can't do it with Bitcoin-Qt. There is a patch but it is not tested, ask Gavin. With MultiBit, it is doable, but requires making a new wallet, sending bitcoins
to address in that wallet and then sending gathered bitcoins to auction address. Than repeat for each and all bid upping or outbidding someone else's bid. If
one is bidding on all 10 shares, that means making 10 new MultiBit wallets, each having just 1 address. I might do that actualy, since rage just went from me
to guy next door!

I'm online in #bitcoin-dev and looking at the expert console in bitcoin-qt.  Sipa is commenting a bit.

I'm depressed and have a thermos of coffee.  I thought I had it worked out to be easy and powerful.
I don't think the low level commands are safe for an auction of ordinary users, if there are ordinary users in the bitcoin community.


...
I can send from the command line.  The link a posting or so above tells how.
I don't see how from the GUI.
sipa is telling me to never reuse an address, that all the people who want to return payment are breaking the privacy structure.  I am telling him that transparent auditing is equally or more important.  I guess I'm gonna have to earn my easy money fixing this.  I don't think I'm gonna get a custom patch from him...

legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1002
The most of bitcoiners are using either Bitcoin-Qt or MultiBit, and you just excluded all of them from the auctions. I do not trust blockchain.info and I don't
want to mess with Armory since it crashes randomly on my WinXP computer, sometimes causing even system lockup. Unless I can participate using the most
widely used, trustable and stable solutions, I ain't gonna participate. You can send all my bitcoins back to any of those addresses which I used to place 0.1
BTC bids. Related transactions:

https://blockchain.info/tx/1df1ccf5d0f1f59d813d4283648a68ae3fb3db7f04697b9b2b0141cc954ab38f
https://blockchain.info/tx/d61a16dd4f407c493f70b022aee1d9266c01d617c7884be2312778634300948b
https://blockchain.info/tx/efe4576ba042ff44bf486dffd13c841bfc563da95ac88736ee5d066f9dccf732
https://blockchain.info/tx/30047845d2cdb04d3ade84f5a2d004a80aaaff01f9198861285191234237a897
https://blockchain.info/tx/36004fdfa95f8b1b7fb7481014d0c7b489d5f11ab53b7fb2da953b180d1e336e

I am corresponding in #bitcoin-dev about how to do this using bitcoin-QT.  
I will perfect the process with my own funds and addresses.
I will return your funds, each payment back to its original address.
I will write up the process.

The background reading is online.

There is a payment protocol document in the works.  I bookmarked it, but it's not on today's list.  I actually think my idea is better, and something like the PGP web of trust would also work well.  I am 0x17B56C41 or so in the PGP/GPG world.
sr. member
Activity: 411
Merit: 250
The block chain bidding is ideal. It makes the bids binding. In my auction for CH shares, I had a few bids that were not honored. Love the innovation profmac.

Too bad my auction took too long, I was gathering those coins to invest with you prof.

2 questions:

1) End date for the auction - there has to be one for me to bid.
2) Will there be refunds to original address for non-winning bids?

Thx TheJucie

The innovator is never properly rewarded.  He is forgotten under the accolades of those who make money from his innovations.
The block-chain is everything.
I am willing to pre-announce an end to the auction.  Will 24 or 48 hours of advance notice be enough? 
All non-winning auction bids will be refunded to the original payment address.

I would prefer the date be tied to something concrete, such as the arrival of the unit, and for 48 hours notice to happen. Personal preference, I'll be happy with anything that would make it certain.
sr. member
Activity: 411
Merit: 250
You are funny. Unless one has 10 different addresses, each holding more bitcoins than bids aimed to be outbidden, there is no way he can own 10 shares.
When the auction opened, you could own 9 shares for 9 Satoshis.

For that to be true, I'd need to send 1 Satoshi from each of the 9 different addresses, than send more bitcoins individually for each and all addresses where my
bid was no longer the highest one.

That's precisely right, and how bitcoin auctions using the blockchain can differentiate between different bidders. How else can you validate yourself? Lets say we each sent in 3 transactions of .1 BTC. Lets also say that I'm not active in the forum, and then you come in and say that you sent in 5 transactions. Suddenly you've stolen my bids. Requiring the bid to be tied to the address is a great way to simplify bookkeeping on everybody's part and to keep your bitcoins safe from people like me who might say that I sent it in, and how would you prove that it was your transaction and not mine?

Quote

Let's complicate it more - only addresses starting with 1a2b3c are valid. I'm sure majority of bitcoiners would love it.

This statement makes no sense. Addresses are randomly generated and unique - there's no reason to have a qualification on address.

Quote
What you are saying is that I don't own 5 shares for 0.1 BTC each but just 1 share for which I paid 0.5 BTC already. Unless I use some new addresses to send bitcoins, I can bid on 1 and only 1 share - the one I own right now. Or I actualy own more than 1 share now, but I'd need to figure out how many bitcoins were sent from each of addresses I've used already, else there is no way for me to figure out anything? One who has 10 BTC split on 10.000 addresses already lost the auction? Unless one uses Armory, blockchain.info wallet or some other solution, he is pretty much screwed and might actualy seriously overpay the share.

LOL?

1st - I've not heard of armory before. I looked it up and it looks nice. Please let us know what client you are using - I am fairly certain that specifying sending address will be an option. But you are correct, right now you own a bunch of bids. There's time until the auction is over (Prof - this is the #1 question that you're not answering. Please answer it. It will make everybody happier.) and we can figure it out.
Quote
@ theGECK

You and Prof must be right, that is why there is incredible amount of interest in this offer. There are five pages of posts already not because it is unclear what is offer about or because the deal is overcomplicated but because people just love to post, they do it for fun or to increase post count.

You want to attract as many people as possible and have fun but you are making managing the offer convenient for you only, at all costs it seems. What a joke!

"Convenient for you only, at all costs".
1) Not sure how I got roped into this, since I'm not the one who set the rules. I just agree with them.
2) Seeing that what we're talking about is how Bitcoin has worked since day 1, I don't think that it's a matter of convenience for Prof. It's a matter of making sure that nobody can lay claim to bids in the future. If there's ever a dispute, whomever can send from that address owns the bid - conflict resolution becomes very simple.
3) Again, this is how Bitcoin works. You send coins from an address that you have the private key to sign the transactions. Please let us know what you're using and we'll help you figure it out.
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