Bakkt | Bitcointalksearch.org

fillippone

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Bakkt is trying to find new directions for their business:

Bitcoin Company Bakkt Awarded BitLicense in New York

Quote

The bitcoin-focused subsidiary of Intercontinental Exchange was awarded both virtual currency and money transmitter licenses.

According to an announcement from DFS Superintendent Linda Lacewell on Thursday, the virtual currency license will allow Bakkt Marketplace, a wholly owned subsidiary of Bakkt Holdings, to offer its New York customers the ability to buy and sell digital currencies.
The firm was also granted a money transmitter license. The licenses bring Bakkt under DFS supervision for its licensed activities.
"This approval provides additional virtual currency options to New Yorkers as the state continues to rebuild and recover," said Lacewell.
"This represents a major milestone to achieving our vision of making digital assets accessible to all, and we’re thrilled to continue driving innovation in this rapidly evolving industry, highlighted by the upcoming launch of the Bakkt App," said Bakkt CEO Gavin Michael.

A complete regulatory offering for sure will help Bakkt gaining market shares providing services to US firms, who are in dire need of a vehicle to get exposure to Bitcoin. Or someone who is able to provide custodian services for those.

fillippone

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Bakkt hit the news again today:

Crypto Exchange Bakkt Nears Merger With Victory Park SPAC

Quote

Bakkt, the cryptocurrency platform majority owned by Intercontinental Exchange Inc., is in advanced talks to go public through a merger with blank-check firm VPC Impact Acquisition Holdings, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

The transaction is set to value the combined entity at more than $2 billion, and an announcement may come as soon as next week, said the people.

Looks like ICE is dumping the investment, in my opinion.

Bakkt had the purpose of servicing physical bitcoins to institutional investors, but ultimately lost the battle with CME:

Trading volumes are tiny, compared to CME.

Volumes on less-regulated exchanges are multiple but probably inflated by training bot activities.

Looking at the more relevant Open Interest positions (Institutional money usually leaves the position open over long periods of time, while day trader usually close their position overnight, leaving no traces on Open Interest the CME gains relevance, but Bakkt still is a tiny fraction:

Karartma1

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Quote from: fillippone on September 25, 2020, 04:00:21 AM

Quote from: Karartma1 on September 25, 2020, 03:37:37 AM

<...>
Don't get me wrong, for what it's worth, to me they can collapse. We don't need no Bakkt (or CME).

I disagree here. Every instrument useful for Bitcoin price discovery is more than welcome in the market arena. Even if it is used to induce volatility or price manipulation. Market has to be proven resilient to such (weak) attacks to demonstrate Bitcoin as a reliable Store of Value. Stress test is important, and we cannot rely on regulations to protect investors as in traditional markets.

That's good not to be on the same page. I keep my position: I don't think these instruments are necessary. As the future markets worked like a handbrake for gold, they sure can do the same to bitcoin. I guess the following article summarizes what I would like to express. Have a read Wink

https://medium.com/swlh/will-the-futures-market-do-to-bitcoin-what-it-did-to-gold-b7d35704641

fillippone

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Quote from: Karartma1 on September 25, 2020, 03:37:37 AM

<...>
Don't get me wrong, for what it's worth, to me they can collapse. We don't need no Bakkt (or CME).

I disagree here. Every instrument useful for Bitcoin price discovery is more than welcome in the market arena. Even if it is used to induce volatility or price manipulation. Market has to be proven resilient to such (weak) attacks to demonstrate Bitcoin as a reliable Store of Value. Stress test is important, and we cannot rely on regulations to protect investors as in traditional markets.

Karartma1

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Quote from: fillippone on September 24, 2020, 01:34:00 PM

Quote from: Febo on September 22, 2020, 09:02:13 AM

Last week was new record as it was expected. But It is funny to see how 8 weeks ago volume just made a leg up and now is way higher same as it happened after first 4 weeks in last November. Wonder when we wil see another leg up. To over billion or several billion weakly volume.

[img widht=200]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiYIBtcX0AARJP8?format=jpg&name=900x900[/img]

Bakkt really need to scale up. If you look at overall futures volume they are well behind all other exchanges. They are tiny even compared to their main competitor CME. I might be wrong here, but I think they needed to be more relevant in terms of market share at this point (not to mention their options market, or rather lack of)

Yes, they are losing ground. Bakkt started like the non plus ultra of the Bitcoin futures world and look at it now. We can agree that the market is still in its early stages but, as you pointed out, I expected more from them. When the next bull run will start, I'll be curious to watch their market share. Don't get me wrong, for what it's worth, to me they can collapse. We don't need no Bakkt (or CME).

fillippone

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Quote from: Febo on September 22, 2020, 09:02:13 AM

Last week was new record as it was expected. But It is funny to see how 8 weeks ago volume just made a leg up and now is way higher same as it happened after first 4 weeks in last November. Wonder when we wil see another leg up. To over billion or several billion weakly volume.

Bakkt really need to scale up. If you look at overall futures volume they are well behind all other exchanges. They are tiny even compared to their main competitor CME. I might be wrong here, but I think they needed to be more relevant in terms of market share at this point (not to mention their options market, or rather lack of)

Febo

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Last week was new record as it was expected. But It is funny to see how 8 weeks ago volume just made a leg up and now is way higher same as it happened after first 4 weeks in last November. Wonder when we wil see another leg up. To over billion or several billion weakly volume.

exstasie

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Quote from: gentlemand on August 07, 2020, 09:46:40 AM

It's going to be interesting to see how places like this and CME are going to react as the actual Bitcoin market starts to take control again. They're going to rue the fact that they're not 24/7 and traders of the real deal are going to exploit this to the hilt.

'Taming Bitcoin' may likely turn out to be the exact opposite as it wreaks havoc.

With any luck, Bitcoin will force the traditional markets to become 24/7. Cheesy

I've always thought markets closing at all was kind of a scam. Institutional traders are hedging in pre-market and post-market sessions while the rest of us plebs always have to wait until Monday morning, only to get screwed over by massive gaps. Now they know the feeling!

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

It's going to be interesting to see how places like this and CME are going to react as the actual Bitcoin market starts to take control again. They're going to rue the fact that they're not 24/7 and traders of the real deal are going to exploit this to the hilt.

'Taming Bitcoin' may likely turn out to be the exact opposite as it wreaks havoc.

exstasie

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Quote from: Hueristic on July 30, 2020, 08:45:00 PM

Quote

Bakkt is not actually backed by Bitcoin

However Kruger says that most contracts are simply paper trades that are rolled over. Only 15 BTC were actually delivered in October and only 17 were delivered in November.

https://micky.com.au/stabbed-in-the-bakkt-not-a-scam-but-not-the-whole-truth-either/

It didn't dawn on me until now that these numbers were from last year, shortly after Bakkt launched.

The number of BTC being physically delivered each month has increased an order of magnitude since then. The high so far was 293 BTC in March. Not as bad as we thought:

Maybe Wall Street really is starting to use Bakkt to accumulate. Tongue

Febo

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Last weeks volume dwarf all previous weeks. $434 million. I am sure this and more will be the new normal in 2021.

casperBGD

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Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

Quote from: fillippone on August 03, 2020, 03:00:50 AM

^snip
Does Bitcoin have to survive this and other attacks to prove himself as a reliable Store of Value, like Gold has proven itself over the last 4,000 years? Of course.

agree, BTC is a good idea, and also a functional product with limited number of users at the moment, but have to prove on large scale to be taken as one reliable store of value
it is not just, we are taking it for granted, and other should follow suite, no, has to be proven, verified with large number of users

fillippone

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Quote from: exstasie on August 03, 2020, 01:36:24 AM

Quote from: Hueristic on August 03, 2020, 12:05:34 AM

BITCOIN IS UNDER ATTACK and people act as if its all good and the moon is right around the corner.

I buy enough into the anti-fragility narrative that I'm not too worried about it. If Bitcoin was ever going to be successful, it was going to be attacked this way.

I really didn't understand the argument here, but I do agree with you: Wall Street came here to speculate, they don't like or hate Bitcoin, they just see it as another source of income for their bankers. Incidentally, also their client could possibly profit from this, but it's not the main purpose of their acting.
IS this attack rogue and facilitated by CB's brr? YEs, of course.
Is that fair? I don't care
Does Bitcoin have to survive this and other attacks to prove himself as a reliable Store of Value, like Gold has proven itself over the last 4,000 years? Of course.

exstasie

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Quote from: Hueristic on August 03, 2020, 12:05:34 AM

Quote from: exstasie on August 01, 2020, 10:24:11 PM

Someone bought a little too heavily into the idea that Wall Street came to accumulate BTC. Tongue

They came to speculate! If it's cheaper or more convenient for them to roll over to the next contract, so be it. No skin off my back.

Yup. keep believing wallstreet is not running of the Fed reserve tittties.

they came to scoop off the market cap and shake confidence.

WHY do you think the price hasn'tr gone up in years? You think thats organic or history repeating itself?

Why couldn't it be organic? It's only logical that a multi-year bear market might follow a bubble pop.

Quote from: Hueristic on August 03, 2020, 12:05:34 AM

'You forget to take into account Knowledge Doubling Curve, everyone knows what bitcoin is now.

Everyone knows what Bitcoin is, after 2017. Have they bought in yet?

Quote from: Hueristic on August 03, 2020, 12:05:34 AM

thye ARE accumilating as cheaply as possible burning siezed coins and brrr'd fiat and they keep dumping it to shake confidence.

You think they are doing it on spot exchanges? They obviously aren't accumulating real BTC on Bakkt, and they can't accumulate real BTC using CME futures.

Quote from: Hueristic on August 03, 2020, 12:05:34 AM

BITCOIN IS UNDER ATTACK and people act as if its all good and the moon is right around the corner.

I buy enough into the anti-fragility narrative that I'm not too worried about it. If Bitcoin was ever going to be successful, it was going to be attacked this way.

Hueristic

legendary

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Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: exstasie on August 01, 2020, 10:24:11 PM

Quote from: Hueristic on August 01, 2020, 08:14:22 PM

Keep trying to help them weasel out.

Someone bought a little too heavily into the idea that Wall Street came to accumulate BTC. Tongue

They came to speculate! If it's cheaper or more convenient for them to roll over to the next contract, so be it. No skin off my back.

Yup. keep believing wallstreet is not running of the Fed reserve tittties.

they came to scoop off the market cap and shake confidence.

WHY do you think the price hasn'tr gone up in years? You think thats organic or history repeating itself?

'You forget to take into account Knowledge Doubling Curve, everyone knows what bitcoin is now.

EDY: sorry watsted tobigh and misread your relp. thye ARE accumilating as cheaply as possible burning siezed coins and brrr'd fiat and they keep dumping it to shake confidence.

BITCOIN IS UNDER ATTACK and people act as if its all good and the moon is right around the corner.

which it stilll is cause they can't jhold the dam back forebver.

fuck u cna spell check i gotta pass out

exstasie

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Quote from: Hueristic on August 01, 2020, 08:14:22 PM

Keep trying to help them weasel out.

Someone bought a little too heavily into the idea that Wall Street came to accumulate BTC. Tongue

They came to speculate! If it's cheaper or more convenient for them to roll over to the next contract, so be it. No skin off my back.

Hueristic

legendary

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Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

pre-funded

Keep trying to help them weasel out.

exstasie

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Quote from: Hueristic on July 31, 2020, 09:44:44 AM

What you are both missing is that is the exact opposite of what was promised and the reason is explained right here by Bakkt itself.

Quote

“A critical element to price discovery is physical delivery. Specifically, with our solution, the buying and selling of Bitcoin is fully collateralized or pre-funded. As such, our new daily Bitcoin contract will not be traded on margin, use leverage, or serve to create a paper claim on a real asset.”

They pulled a bait and switch.

https://micky.com.au/bakkts-new-record-as-it-claims-cme-cant-stop-bitcoin-price-manipulation/

A promise of full collateralization isn't a promise that every contract bought will be held for physical delivery.

Bakkt can't force traders to take delivery, any more than the ICE can force crude oil traders to take delivery on barrels of oil. That's why the WTI contract went negative a few months ago. Too many speculators trying to roll over with no bid liquidity.

The ability to take physical delivery is extremely important because it allows direct arbitrage to the spot market, even if most contract holders don't exercise the option. This means Bakkt can theoretically affect price discovery where CME cash settled futures really can't.

This is similar to how Tether keeps USDT pegged. Not many people redeem for dollars, but the ability to do so keeps the peg in line through arbitrage.

fillippone

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Quote from: Hueristic on July 31, 2020, 09:44:44 AM

What you are both missing is that is the exact opposite of what was promised and the reason is explained right here by Bakkt itself.

Quote

“A critical element to price discovery is physical delivery. Specifically, with our solution, the buying and selling of Bitcoin is fully collateralized or pre-funded. As such, our new daily Bitcoin contract will not be traded on margin, use leverage, or serve to create a paper claim on a real asset.”

They pulled a bait and switch.

https://micky.com.au/bakkts-new-record-as-it-claims-cme-cant-stop-bitcoin-price-manipulation/

I give a different interpretation to the above sentence. First of all, yes for sure there is no leverage or margin trading on BAKKT, I mean, no more than it is normal with a future. But what the above sentences mean is that at the delivery the bitcoin is fully collateralised, as the buyer and the seller have both posted initial margin upon trade inception, and then they have regulated variation margin on a daily basis according to the daily settlement of the future. This means at expiry the seller of the contract has already paid the payoff of the future. This means it is fully collateralised.

Hueristic

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Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: fillippone on July 31, 2020, 02:38:47 AM

Quote from: Hueristic link=topic=5180571.msg54904009#msg54904009

<...>
So, what are the real numbers? Huh

Not these bullshit 150 million sold bullshit numbers, those are paper trades which is nothing more than a futures gambling house that never leaves the site.

It should be called Bakkt Casino as that is exactly what it is, with the only winners being the house.

No conspiracy theory here. What you are looking at is the difference between future volumes and futures open interest at settlement. You are basically comparing the 137 usd millions daily volumes with the 14 millions of open interest at maturity date. Be aware that this is something common to every future in every asset class: I haven’t any statistic here ready available, but for every future the daily volumes are a double digit multiple of final settlements (this is particularly true for commodities like oil). Also rolling maturities is a common practice, when only the first future is liquid.

Quote from: exstasie on July 31, 2020, 04:11:58 AM

Quote from: Hueristic on July 30, 2020, 08:45:00 PM

Quote

However Kruger says that most contracts are simply paper trades that are rolled over. Only 15 BTC were actually delivered in October and only 17 were delivered in November.

https://micky.com.au/stabbed-in-the-bakkt-not-a-scam-but-not-the-whole-truth-either/

So, what are the real numbers? Huh

Not these bullshit 150 million sold bullshit numbers, those are paper trades which is nothing more than a futures gambling house that never leaves the site.

Wall Street came to speculate. What were you expecting? Wink

This is how it is in traditional commodities markets too. Traders have no interest in physical settlement, and that's who generates the majority of volume. They roll over contracts to maintain their positions while avoiding settlement costs and fees.

What you are both missing is that is the exact opposite of what was promised and the reason is explained right here by Bakkt itself.

Quote

“A critical element to price discovery is physical delivery. Specifically, with our solution, the buying and selling of Bitcoin is fully collateralized or pre-funded. As such, our new daily Bitcoin contract will not be traded on margin, use leverage, or serve to create a paper claim on a real asset.”

They pulled a bait and switch.

https://micky.com.au/bakkts-new-record-as-it-claims-cme-cant-stop-bitcoin-price-manipulation/

Topic: Bakkt (Read 5599 times)