Bakkt - page 7. | Bitcointalksearch.org

1Referee

legendary

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Quote from: Febo on September 11, 2019, 04:09:46 PM

It seems I mixed another ETF with BAKKT simply because they were one launched other starting whatever at same time.

https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/d23lg4/three_days_after_launch_the_vaneck_bitcoin_trust/

They collected only $41k in 3 days.

That doesn't surprise me. People are just too overly obsessed about institutions and think they'll pump billions in a product that has little appeal to them.

If we look at the fees of this half baked 'ETF', it's a whopping 2.9%, and that's not even taking into consideration the fee the brokerage firms charge on top of it. If we add their fees too, we're looking at ~4% on average, which isn't too appealing. Institutions are better off waiting for Bakkt and use their service, which is much cheaper.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: Febo on September 11, 2019, 04:09:46 PM

It seems I mixed another ETF with BAKKT simply because they were one launched other starting whatever at same time.

https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/d23lg4/three_days_after_launch_the_vaneck_bitcoin_trust/

They collected only $41k in 3 days.

I'll guess they're doing this just to chip away a little further at the SEC. They probably don't care about the numbers, or let's hope they don't.

It seems people have a weird conception of 'institutional money'. It's just as bored and cautious as everyone else's money. If things are dead there's no reason for them to kick off when others have zero interest in doing so. It'll follow the tide like everyone else.

Febo

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Quote from: BitHodler on September 10, 2019, 03:33:10 PM

Quote from: Febo on September 10, 2019, 01:04:23 PM

It looks Wall street dont like Bitcoin that much. Apparently is not that much interest. Hopefully just yet and not at all.

Based on what? The price that's going down? Bakkt hasn't done anything to promote itself as a price driver. No product, no actual sign of demand for physically settled futures, etc. The price shouldn't react to this.

The reason for the price not to go up much more is because we're stuck in a bearish pattern, and the fact that little to no fresh capital is entering the space (read; no influx of stablecoin inflation).

When Tether was printing tokens the price kept going up consistently. Now Tether's printing has almost stopped, so does the bullish momentum that we had. It seems that we're due for months of bearish price action.

It seems I mixed another ETF with BAKKT simply because they were one launched other starting whatever at same time.

https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/d23lg4/three_days_after_launch_the_vaneck_bitcoin_trust/

They collected only $41k in 3 days.

exstasie

legendary

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Quote from: lixer on September 11, 2019, 11:07:10 AM

By now, I expected that the bakkt news would have made an impact already, but seems people are not easily moved by some of these news again

We already got "the Bakkt pump." It's not a coincidence that Bakkt announcing their launch date marked a local bottom on the charts. See Aug 15-16 on the chart. We rallied from $9,500 to $11K on that news. It was a classic "buy the rumor" situation!

Anyone expecting more than that isn't respecting the chart. See all those lower highs since $13,800? We're still in a downtrend. In a downtrend, good news is just a reason to sell the bounce.

lixer

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Quote from: BitHodler on September 10, 2019, 03:33:10 PM

Quote from: Febo on September 10, 2019, 01:04:23 PM

It looks Wall street dont like Bitcoin that much. Apparently is not that much interest. Hopefully just yet and not at all.

Based on what? The price that's going down? Bakkt hasn't done anything to promote itself as a price driver. No product, no actual sign of demand for physically settled futures, etc. The price shouldn't react to this.

The reason for the price not to go up much more is because we're stuck in a bearish pattern, and the fact that little to no fresh capital is entering the space (read; no influx of stablecoin inflation).

When Tether was printing tokens the price kept going up consistently. Now Tether's printing has almost stopped, so does the bullish momentum that we had. It seems that we're due for months of bearish price action.

By now, I expected that the bakkt news would have made an impact already, but seems people are not easily moved by some of these news again, and we have to expect something more powerful to really get people engage with the market again, but I still don’t see anything wrong at the level that we are now in the usage of bitcoin.

The market is full of traders, and we should expect this always, I know we have been expecting it to break bigger barriers because of the investment we have, but know that bitcoin also functions as payment, as people demand for bitcoin and outs money into the market, remember that the receivers also have its own agenda of changing it to fiat which will make the money to leave the market, so we cannot really avoid this fluctuations we see, but in this fluctuation, there are also benefits.

btc_angela

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Quote from: adaseb on September 10, 2019, 11:44:55 PM

Quote from: ePesoInitiative on September 10, 2019, 05:27:40 PM

Well, it will be decided on September 23 or around it. This could be a sell the news event and Bitcoin crashes back to around $6,000 or it could be the fractal that emulates the gold fractal when gold futures came, meaning the price will shoot up to $30,000+.

I don't think this will have the same effect as the CME and CBOE Bitcoin futures like in 2017. When we heard that there would be bitcoin futures everybody went nuts and I think its what caused the massive price surge from $6000 to $20000. Then when it actually launched it was the peak of the market.

Everyone goes crazy that time in 2017, majority didn't understand what CME and CBOE was, and thought they still good to invest eventhough that market is already is a huge bubble.

Quote from: adaseb on September 10, 2019, 11:44:55 PM

Bakkt is different because the market knew about it for a while now and its most likely not what took us from $3100 to $13800, so even if its a flop the sell-off might be minimal.

Major difference is that we are not in a bull run and this is not cash settled. So I guess it could let to a price boost in October or towards the end of the year.

adaseb

legendary

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Quote from: ePesoInitiative on September 10, 2019, 05:27:40 PM

Well, it will be decided on September 23 or around it. This could be a sell the news event and Bitcoin crashes back to around $6,000 or it could be the fractal that emulates the gold fractal when gold futures came, meaning the price will shoot up to $30,000+.

I don't think this will have the same effect as the CME and CBOE Bitcoin futures like in 2017. When we heard that there would be bitcoin futures everybody went nuts and I think its what caused the massive price surge from $6000 to $20000. Then when it actually launched it was the peak of the market.

Bakkt is different because the market knew about it for a while now and its most likely not what took us from $3100 to $13800, so even if its a flop the sell-off might be minimal.

ePesoInitiative

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Well, it will be decided on September 23 or around it. This could be a sell the news event and Bitcoin crashes back to around $6,000 or it could be the fractal that emulates the gold fractal when gold futures came, meaning the price will shoot up to $30,000+.

exstasie

legendary

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Quote from: Febo on September 10, 2019, 01:04:23 PM

It looks Wall street dont like Bitcoin that much. Apparently is not that much interest. Hopefully just yet and not at all.

Why do you say that? Bakkt only opened deposits a few days ago and we have no idea how many BTC are flowing into their warehouse. We'll see what volume looks like in late September when they launch.

Quote from: BitHodler on September 10, 2019, 03:33:10 PM

When Tether was printing tokens the price kept going up consistently. Now Tether's printing has almost stopped, so does the bullish momentum that we had. It seems that we're due for months of bearish price action.

I think we're actually near the end of this downtrend. If we're lucky, there will be a selloff into the $8,000s but I'm not too confident about that. Bears have wasted weeks meandering sideways and selling momentum is fading out. This 2+ month correction is clearly an accumulation pattern when you look at the monthly chart, so they're running out of time.

BitHodler

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Quote from: Febo on September 10, 2019, 01:04:23 PM

It looks Wall street dont like Bitcoin that much. Apparently is not that much interest. Hopefully just yet and not at all.

Based on what? The price that's going down? Bakkt hasn't done anything to promote itself as a price driver. No product, no actual sign of demand for physically settled futures, etc. The price shouldn't react to this.

The reason for the price not to go up much more is because we're stuck in a bearish pattern, and the fact that little to no fresh capital is entering the space (read; no influx of stablecoin inflation).

When Tether was printing tokens the price kept going up consistently. Now Tether's printing has almost stopped, so does the bullish momentum that we had. It seems that we're due for months of bearish price action.

mindrust

legendary

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Quote from: Febo on September 10, 2019, 01:04:23 PM

It looks Wall street dont like Bitcoin that much. Apparently is not that much interest. Hopefully just yet and not at all.

Bitcoin don't give a fuck. With WallStreet or without, Bitcoin will still do what he knows the best. Shitting on FIAT hodlers.

Febo

legendary

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It looks Wall street dont like Bitcoin that much. Apparently is not that much interest. Hopefully just yet and not at all.

davinchi

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This wasn't "buy the rumour, sell the news" tho Cheesy

. I mean it surely looked like it when you look at the prices but it was just pure coincidence Cheesy

. Of course, there is truth in every lie so maybe even if that wasn't the main reason maybe there was some inside this fall.

I am not saying it was because of it by the way, I said it wasn't at the start but maybe just a small part of the fall was due to that? After this starts I am sure there will be a lot more people who will bet on shorting as well and that is a sad reality, the more chances people have making money from bitcoin falling down, the harder it will be for us to go down. You give people to make money easier when they just sell their coins, they will do that instead of risking via buying bitcoin.

serjent05

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Quote from: Gohs on September 07, 2019, 11:50:46 PM

I'm not surprised that BTC dumped after the news. It's just like back in 2017, when CBOE and CME launched BTC started falling all through 2018.
I won't be totally surprised if history repeats itself.

Probably it won't repeat itself. As far as I know CBOE and CME is cashed settled which means, they do not necessarily need to back up their futures with physical Bitcoin while these Bakkt is physically backed meaning their futures is backed by Bitcoin itself. So this time around, there is really a demand for Bitcoin unlike the CBOE and CME where they can sell unlimited amount of BTC even though they don't have them.

gentlemand

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on September 08, 2019, 06:09:52 PM

that means that eventually, on average, every bitcoin in bakkt's vaults will be re-pledged twice. bakkt's supply would essentially be tripled out of thin air. this is one of the ways wall street suppresses prices.

I seem to remember Bakkt saying something along the lines of 'well, we could do that but, trust us, we won't because that would be uncool.'

That type of attitude really doesn't tend to last very long.

The one thing that BTC has to defend against that that nothing that's gone before it has had is the ability to personally verify it near instantly. I get the feeling that hardly anyone will give a shit if they have dollars dangled in front of them.

hatshepsut93

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Bakkt is just one step on Bitcoin's way of becoming a more established and recognized asset, and I think regardless if it will have a positive or a negative effect on the price, it will be quite small, maybe even unnoticeable in all this crazy volatility that is always here. So, I'm not really hyped about Bakkt and don't track all the news about it. Bitcoin market seem to also stop being so sensitive to all these trading platform news, compared to what we saw last year.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: 1Referee on September 08, 2019, 05:49:44 PM

It's at least a good development in the sense that shorters can't short more than there are Bitcoins in the reserves of Bakkt.

i'm not sure that's true. bakkt isn't allowing leveraged trading (yet) but the ICE and the rest of wall street engages in commingling and rehypothecation practices. this effectively inflates the supply available for shorting---and significantly so. a wall street veteran warned us about what this means:

Quote

Singh has recommended that regulators’ financial stability assessments be adjusted to back out “pledged collateral, or the associated reuse of such assets,” but policymakers have not heeded his wise advice.

Dr. Singh estimates that collateral is re-used 2.0 times (as of year-end 2017). This means only one of the three people who think they own a U.S. Treasury bond, for example, actually does own it—namely, the original owner of the bond and the two parties that reused the bond. The brokerage statements of all three people show that they own the bond, so it’s impossible for them to detect that behind the scenes only one bond exists!

that means that eventually, on average, every bitcoin in bakkt's vaults will be re-pledged twice. bakkt's supply would essentially be tripled out of thin air. this is one of the ways wall street suppresses prices.

1Referee

legendary

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Quote from: stfN2128 on September 08, 2019, 08:51:00 AM

Don't forget to mention the fact that bakkt futures are settled by real btc, all the other were only settled by cash. As more traders are trading on bakkt, as more futures bakkt has to hold in their wallet. so it could have an big effect on the price of btc..

It's at least a good development in the sense that shorters can't short more than there are Bitcoins in the reserves of Bakkt. CME allows anyone with money to short Bitcoin's entire market cap over and over, which isn't possible with Bakkt. Naked shorting is what has destroyed Gold's aspect of scarcity market wise, and for now it's fantastic to have a player as Bakkt on board to counter that.

CBOE leaving the cash settled futures space has done Bitcoin well. Their volumes may not have been super duper high, but less naked shorts is always a plus.

gentlemand

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Quote from: stfN2128 on September 08, 2019, 08:51:00 AM

Don't forget to mention the fact that bakkt futures are settled by real btc, all the other were only settled by cash. As more traders are trading on bakkt, as more futures bakkt has to hold in their wallet. so it could have an big effect on the price of btc..

It goes both ways. It'll be very interesting to see what it does after another bubble pop. Most will want to switch to shorting for dollars in that scenario, that's if they were ever interested in physical BTC in the first place.

stfN2128

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Quote from: Lucius on September 08, 2019, 07:31:01 AM

Quote from: Gohs on September 07, 2019, 11:50:46 PM

I'm not surprised that BTC dumped after the news. It's just like back in 2017, when CBOE and CME launched BTC started falling all through 2018.
I won't be totally surprised if history repeats itself.

That news had nothing to do with that dump, do you and some others can start reading that almost identical things have been going on for months. You also mix BTC futures back in 2017, their effect was enormous and it pump price to $20k, with huge media FOMO of course. But it was time after halving, now we are in pre-halving time, and Bakkt can only help to boost price.

History repeats itself, there are some patterns that we can follow through Bitcoin history, but 2020 does not fit that pattern. After long crypto winter and recovery, we are now moving towards a new achievements, price should go up, not down.

Don't forget to mention the fact that bakkt futures are settled by real btc, all the other were only settled by cash. As more traders are trading on bakkt, as more futures bakkt has to hold in their wallet. so it could have an big effect on the price of btc..

Topic: Bakkt - page 7. (Read 5599 times)