Topic: [BET] Trump or Harris 2024, Poker Player vs suchmoon (Read 2359 times)

I hope Trump will crush Putin! Putin deserves this!

I am not sure you are speaking about me, but I am not a wealth redistribution absolutist. I think it is absolutely necessary to have a spectrum of wealth in society. However, at the moment there is a constant concentration of wealth in some individuals and levelling is required for social stability. If you read the Capital in the XXI Century, you will find that such distribution in which "everyone gets richer" does not occur naturally - it requires proactivity.

There is a whole generation of young people whose lives are going to be worse in economic terms than their parents and struggling to emancipate, and I am talking middle class, which shows how that is failing.

Also, wealth is kind of a cake when resources are limited. This is about how goods are distributed and how decisions are made in government. Massive wealth carries massive influence (Hi Elon, yes that is you) which taken to a point makes Democracy less of a democracy.

Re misdoings... I am less concerned about the accounted mismanagement than about the mismanagement that I know is happening and is not recorded nor can be proven.

Some of you seem to find it hard to understand that many of us don't care if the rich get richer if the rest of us can get richer too. Wealth is not a cake.

Besides, I don't know what the Democratic donors will think. You haven't heard anything about the scandal?

DNC's Lindy Li: Claims Harris campaign $20M in DEBT, staffers not paid, top donors fleeing

How did the Harris campaign blow through $1 billion? | Cuomo

DNC 'in complete turmoil,' finance committee member says in extended interview | NewsNation

How did Kamala Harris’s campaign rack up a debt after record fundraising?

This is a good example of what a great money manager Harris is. It's not just the mismanagement, it's that she paid a bundle to appear on the sites she appeared on including Oprah, who doesn't need the $1M he paid her at all (and some of it came from modest people who donated $20 and the like) and who has denied it because it appears she didn't pay her directly but her company:

‘I Was Never Paid Anything—Ever’: Oprah Winfrey Denies She Was Paid $1M for Kamala Harris Appearance As Reports Claim Vice President’s Campaign Is $20M In Debt After Spending $1B

That is something that needs to be accepted by the Democrats if they want to be an alternative in the near future. They went too far on the wrong things to get votes that anyway were going to be theirs and did not appeal to the middle classes and the moderates of both sides. Also, they have been indecisive in issues that required decisiveness and that is to be paid.

On the bright side, I think that with this "trifecta" of Government (plus the SCOTUS in the pocket, let's not forget), Trump is going to go full Trump to the point of no return. There are a range of possible scenarios, from a backslash of deportations, getting some fallout from commercial wars, social unrest among some minorities... The Secretaries he is appointing are in the radical zones of the spectrum in some key positions.

No, many of the Trump voters are not stupid retards, and certainly the millionaires that donated have made an excellent deal as they will get a x100 return with tax cuts and SP 500 exhuberance.

Seeing that the Republicans are also going to take the House, with which they have swept the total of the elections, Presidential, Senate and House, I reaffirm that for such a thing the Democrats must have done very badly during the last 4 years and also in the electoral campaign.

That elitist argument that Trump has won because Republican voters are retarded or misinformed, when most major media outlets except Fox are pro-Democrat, is not wanting to learn anything from what has happened.

In fact it was a piggyback ride for Trump who was saddled up  by Musk with the aim  to fulfill his ambitions, get extra money and proceed to further people brainwashing. There is a rumor that he got more than 20 billions boost just during one evening. After Musk acquired  former Twitter ^{(trashed it to the current X)} my first thought he did just for the single purpose i.e. to manipulate people during the future ^{at that time} election campaign and the time has proved that I was correct.

Whatever opossition was there, after the level of popular support on this campaign, it is over. It is a lot about the money and there is a lot of money after setting tariffs and giving corporation tax breaks. I do not picture any Republican oposing the main points of Trump agenda including all those that make the risk I mentioned more likely after his election.

Well, whatever happens the world will adapt - I mean unless there is a nuclear war or the like.

I assume you're referring to me saying "I lean towards Trump as the slightly safer option", maybe a better way to put it is that I lean further away from Kamala than I lean away from Trump?   Neither represent who I'd want to lean towards.



I don't think he owns everyone who represents a republican, although certainly there are many diehard supporters on the right. And there are many diehard supporters on the left. Overall, both candidates here represented too many risks on each side for me, that's why it felt like the extreme's of both sides were running, which creates more division between people with different opinions. There are many republicans that I don't think really like Trump, some maybe not as outspoken as others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_2024_presidential_campaign



I didn't like the timing of the swap but I could never really see Biden as a serious option. Outside of any policies or changes he was going to pitch, his cognitive decline, or whatever health issue he is going through, wasn't something I was going to be OK with for 4 more years given the state of the country & world. I could have made that statement well before he announced he was re-running, based on videos I saw, speeches I heard, etc.

I really thought someone else was going to take the reigns at some point sooner, but gave up on that thought as time passed... then bam there was Kamala. *shrug*  Bitter sweet because at least there was another option to look at seriously, but then it appeared to be the same stuff from the past 4 years and pushing it further, which I also wasn't going to be OK with. *shrug*

Your confusion with Kamala is due to a misunderstanding of the nature of the party. The whole "danger to democracy" schtick talking point they espouse tells you exactly what's going on. Trump won the nomination because that's what people wanted. The Democrat party had already picked a different candidate, in case you don't remember. You weren't allowed him. This has been a theme.

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Srsly?


Misrepresentation and as much as it's true has been enjoyed by previous presidents. Call me when Obama is arrested for gun-running and executing Americans without trial (I'm sure there's plenty of others)


RvW was always bad law. Even RBG said so. Also, Trump is not directly responsible for this and does not support a nationwide ban.

Everyone honest knows that was bullshit. Plus that's always been the case.


Everyone honest knows that was bullshit. They even had to change the law to allow that to be brought. Also, civil convictions are brought on preponderance of evidence (and even that was sketchy) and do not have the weight of a criminal conviction which must be beyond a reasonable doubt.


Straight up lie

This is not a collection of facts that amount to reasons not to vote for Trump, this is a collection of talking points to justify your dislike for Trump. You're not going to convince anyone who looks beyond talking points.

Ok, so a few posts ago you were leaning towards Trump, but now...what am I reading here? Somehow you are now leaning towards not letting Trump do Trump things?

One of the main reasons to not elect Trump I mentioned several times was the level and types of risks that were associated with him and another very big reason is that he owns the Republican party and has been placing his people all over during years. There is no Republican party as you used to know it before him, he has taken it and anyone who dares to oppose goes to the political graveyard.

Sorry to those who thought that Trump could be controlled, would not go to far or somehow would be prevented from suiciding the US international, migration and trade policies and voted for him. Read the small print: no returns accepted.

Congrats on the win Poker Player!

As for this election, IIWII. I've got some concerns with the house potentially going republican as well, which might hinder some of the checks & balances to keep Trump from going wild wild west.

Even if it ends up all republican, I think there are enough level-headed republicans that wouldn't let Trump go completely bat shit crazy, maybe the legal system helps.. it helped with controlling some things during his first term, I guess we'll see.

I'm still baffled the democrats wouldn't have put someone else up, they had the chance to throw anyone in against Trump, and even at the last minute, and they picked Kamala, with a clear attachment and track record with Biden. Similarly, I really wish the Republicans wouldn't have put up Trump again. With the right campaign, they could have picked many different people and had a pretty good shot to win without driving more division.

Neither side seems to be willing to break away from the paths each side has been going down, which seems to be towards the far side(s) of the political spectrum.




Looking at this chart makes me wonder if one of these "other" guys would be great for uniting the country, maybe the world. 2024's numbers are not listed in the chart, but based on my count, there were 812 "other" registered candidates this year, outside of the main republican/democrat categories, most of which are either independent, nonpartisan, or unaffiliated. I'd see this jump in numbers as an indication real Americans are unhappy with the paths the established left and right have been going down.

Unfortunately, without a lot of financial and/or media support, most "other" guys never get seen or heard, mainly since the big players in our "free" press all appear to be financially in bed with the established rep/dem groups. I feel like the last 2 elections, at least, I've felt the pressure to vote more against someone and not for someone I actually wanted, which is sad.



That's it?  What about civil war, Abraham Lincoln, emancipation proclamation, 13th amendment, assassination, civil rights movement, etc... we've come a long way.

Considering that America is seen as the promoters of democracy in the world it's important they stick practically to what they preach to the world. America election is usually one that the entire globe always beam their searchlight on due to its powerful position in the world.

There were no form of vote buying if you're referring to the $1m initiative introduced by Elon musk in support for Trump. 

Seems we have similar situations  when it comes to general elections in our part's of the world. The orientation is markedly different among our politicians from those of the advanced nations and that's why we will always have elections characterised by violence and all form of electoral malpractice in broad daylight.

When the chairman of the electoral commission is appointed by the sitting president as umpire in the election, results will be compromised and that's why you'll always hardly find incumbent public office holder's like the president in our part's of the world losing any election.  I really don't know much about other previous elections before this but I think this just concluded America election  is a clear testament of how electoral processes ought to go in modern democratic societies.

The polls as always didn't know shit or (more likely) were manipulated. They were showing Harris lead for the most part, while in fact it was Trump that was in the lead, but CNN wouldn't admit it. No surprise there.

As for the win, I said it a few times that they're both pretty bad candidates, but out of the two Trump is better. I'd never support a socialist and a woke supporter. Harris represents all the things I despise in society. She doesn't care about freedom, what matters for her is equality. But the deal is there's no equality. If there's equality, make men have period! Wait, Tim Walz actually believes men menstruate!

Congratulations Poker Player!

Yes and no. If your country does not offer the basic guarantees we are talking about a completely different thing, but the comments here are about the process itself, not if there is actually fraud except for one thing, how resistant is a process to fraud.

The fact that all depends of a few swing states and to what seems to be a few swing counties makes it less fraud resistant.

Otherwise, is about representing accurately the will of the majority. In the recent election, the popular vote went to Trump so no question there. But it is not always the case.

Sure. The US elections have really matured to a level that you could believe in the electoral process to a certain degree. I don't know if there were any form of vote buying or other electoral malpractices in the just concluded election, it isn't really as alarming and open as it is done in my country. The level at which politicians disrespect the democratic process of electing political officeholders is at the peak. If it was in my country, it would not have been smooth and rancour free like we witnessed the in the United States of America yesterday. Especially as the power was taken from the ruling party and incumbent president to another candidate belonging to an opposition party. Kudos to the electoral officers and the electorates for conducting a free and fair election.

Please provide proof of any of that.

See, this is the type of fallout of electing Trump.

Payback is a bitch.

In 2016 Trump could have thrown Hillary to jail but he didn’t. They thanked him by stealing the election, trying to imprison him, and then sending a sniper on him was the final straw.

I don’t think he will let these go unpunished and you know what, he has the support from the majority now.

The diddycrats are fucked.

Firstly, I am sure that I am not the only one to remember than before "using the law to attack" was a bad thing, Hilary was attacked for allegedly using a gmail account inadequately. But that is ok, because she was a Dem? Or suing Bill Clinton was ok because that was not using the law?

I do understand your point, particularly speaking of federal law. It is made so that even minor irregularities can constitute a crime and once they decide to go after someone (let's be honest, usually with a good reason), they will find a number of charges to be made. The federal law seem to have hundreds of possible crimes, even the basic list https://clarifacts.com/federal-crimes-list/ is notable.

But, and here is why I think Trump sets a precedent, he is certainly convicted of very common offences. On the civil trial, of first sexual abuse, but then also a very large sum for continuing to attack the victim. On paying hush money without accounting for it, I am not saying is unheard of, but it is quite a simple case - you just should not do it and everyone knows. It is not hidden in some small print of a federal obscure statute.

On the one related to the doings of his corporation, I can agree that could probably widespread - but if you are into that short of business, do not run for POTUS. You will be scrutinised and it will come to light.

In the case of Trump he has created that "I am the victim" narrative that allows him to break the law, damage the lives of other and still pose as the injured party. But it is just that, a narrative. There is fully recorded one hour meeting in which he is asking the Governor of Georgia to "find him 17000 votes". This guy is now the POTUS.

As they say, "it is not paranoia if they are following you" so "it is not which-hunt if it is flying with a broom".

I'm not Trump's biggest fan by any means, and he's done plenty of stuff that is both criminal and incredibly unethical. But what I take from the fact that a convicted felon was elected as president is that the criminal justice system is a joke, and the American people know it. There are so many very-broad criminal laws that anyone can be convicted of anything, and it all comes down to whether the government considers it convenient to prosecute you or not. Now that Trump is in charge of the DoJ, you'll be seeing quite a few top Democrats become convicted felons, I think, and these convictions will have about the same amount of "justice" in them as Trump's convictions.

(Neil Gorsuch, my favorite Supreme Court justice, recently published a book about this sort of thing: Over Ruled: The Human Toll of Too Much Law.)

This is just to confirm that I've received the payment, txs suchmoon.