Topic: BF Labs Inc. officially reinstated their once ended refund policy via Bitcoin. (Read 5123 times)
August 28, 2013, 12:01:41 AM
This is a bullshit thread, thus I'm locking it.
August 27, 2013, 11:46:14 AM
BFL is not a scam until it is a scam: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1jwnqq/do_not_order_from_coinabulcom_at_the_moment_the/
August 27, 2013, 11:42:54 AM
Might also be worth complaining to BitPay.
I wonder why everyone ignores bitpay considering they are the payment processor for most of the transactions? Quote from: BitPay Terms, 9.3
Purchaser Complaints. Purchasers filing complaints about a purchase will be forwarded to you for resolution. BitPay reserves the right to terminate accounts which receive excessive complaints.
(from https://bitpay.com/terms)
August 27, 2013, 11:38:48 AM
Might also be worth complaining to BitPay.
Quote from: BitPay Terms, 9.3
Purchaser Complaints. Purchasers filing complaints about a purchase will be forwarded to you for resolution. BitPay reserves the right to terminate accounts which receive excessive complaints.
(from https://bitpay.com/terms) 
August 25, 2013, 11:03:56 PM
they have currently refused a refund for bitcoin by referring to their "no refunds" policy. This was 2 days ago. Im looking for advise on next course of action.
Send them a message saying that by refusing to refund your order before they have shipped you the product, BFL is violating FTC rules. Report their violation to the FTC. http://www.ftc.gov/complaint
You should also complain to the Kansas Attorney General http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms
You may also want to drop a line to PayPal to say "I noticed a PayPal button on a website that took my money and won't ship me product. You may want to look into it".
Also file a complaint with the BBB of Kansas. http://www.bbb.org/kansas-city/Business-Reviews/electronic-equipment-and-supplies-wholesale-and-manufacturers/bf-labs-inc-in-overland-park-ks-1000002011
The full Public Service Announcement:
If you have ordered from ButterFly Labs and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask ButterFly Labs for a refund, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. Multiple customers have already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via Bitcoin or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC at http://www.ftc.gov/complaint and they will advocate for you with ButterFly Labs to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
You can also do a paper filing with the DA here: http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms
There are also several threads on how to get a refund from ButterFly Labs, here are two:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/yes-you-can-get-a-refund-from-bfl-266945
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/butterfly-labs-did-everything-they-could-to-make-getting-a-refund-impossible-272585
August 25, 2013, 10:54:35 PM
they have currently refused a refund for bitcoin by referring to their "no refunds" policy. This was 2 days ago. Im looking for advise on next course of action.
August 23, 2013, 09:17:28 PM
Where is that "Honest Abe" quote from Josh 
Can't seem to find it anywhere...............
Can't seem to find it anywhere...............
http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitforce-sc-release-notes/
Quote
...Although there are always issues during development, our team is highly experienced in exactly this field and we're currently ahead of our original timeline. Honest Abe, we're scheduling shipments for October of 2012. Will it REALLY be as fast as you say? YES. It's really that fast. Let's review our track record once again. Our most recent release was the Mini Rig...
August 23, 2013, 09:04:16 PM
so you're tellin me, new money comes in for their "Monarch" and suddenly refunds are processed?
August 23, 2013, 08:45:19 PM
Where is that "Honest Abe" quote from Josh
Can't seem to find it anywhere...............
Can't seem to find it anywhere...............
August 23, 2013, 08:41:51 PM
Indeed. Requested refund on Monday (2013-08-21), denied citing the "all sales final" condition. Further correspondence included an interesting tidbit:
I've read different here, and heard different from a friend of mine. But I don't really know first hand.
So while I hope that the this policy is reinstated, it doesn't appear to be from my perspective. I filed a complaint with the FTC, the Kansas AG, and the Kansas BBB, I guess we'll see what happens.
Quote from: Paul Scholes
We aren't accepting refunds and have not accepted refunds for the past several weeks I have been in this position.
I've read different here, and heard different from a friend of mine. But I don't really know first hand.
So while I hope that the this policy is reinstated, it doesn't appear to be from my perspective. I filed a complaint with the FTC, the Kansas AG, and the Kansas BBB, I guess we'll see what happens.
You could forward to BFL that you have taken these actions. Along with:
"no sale has yet taken place" because you have not received your merchandise.
BFL can be fined for up to $16,000 for each instance of these violations.
This would give them one last chance to do what the law requires of them.
Good idea, did that as well. Thanks.
August 23, 2013, 07:19:24 PM
August 23, 2013, 07:11:06 PM
Joshua once again living in an alternate reality where what he says supersedes the law. Not to mention deleting a few posts that gave him a facepalm with regard to FTC regs broken down for dummies ie Joshua.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy-13.html
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy-13.html
The fact that BFL deletes posts from their website that contain the FTC rules being broken, might be a bit of a red flag.
August 23, 2013, 07:01:27 PM
Joshua once again living in an alternate reality where what he says supersedes the law. Not to mention deleting a few posts that gave him a facepalm with regard to FTC regs broken down for dummies ie Joshua.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy-13.html
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy-13.html
August 23, 2013, 07:01:10 PM
Feel free to vote in the petition: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/poll-petition-to-have-the-ftc-investigate-bf-labs-inc-in-kansas-poll-280290
August 23, 2013, 06:51:18 PM
Indeed. Requested refund on Monday (2013-08-21), denied citing the "all sales final" condition. Further correspondence included an interesting tidbit:
I've read different here, and heard different from a friend of mine. But I don't really know first hand.
So while I hope that the this policy is reinstated, it doesn't appear to be from my perspective. I filed a complaint with the FTC, the Kansas AG, and the Kansas BBB, I guess we'll see what happens.
Quote from: Paul Scholes
We aren't accepting refunds and have not accepted refunds for the past several weeks I have been in this position.
I've read different here, and heard different from a friend of mine. But I don't really know first hand.
So while I hope that the this policy is reinstated, it doesn't appear to be from my perspective. I filed a complaint with the FTC, the Kansas AG, and the Kansas BBB, I guess we'll see what happens.
You could forward to BFL that you have taken these actions. Along with:
"no sale has yet taken place" because you have not received your merchandise.
BFL can be fined for up to $16,000 for each instance of these violations.
This would give them one last chance to do what the law requires of them.
August 23, 2013, 05:51:01 PM
Indeed. Requested refund on Monday (2013-08-21), denied citing the "all sales final" condition. Further correspondence included an interesting tidbit:
I've read different here, and heard different from a friend of mine. But I don't really know first hand.
So while I hope that the this policy is reinstated, it doesn't appear to be from my perspective. I filed a complaint with the FTC, the Kansas AG, and the Kansas BBB, I guess we'll see what happens.
Quote from: Paul Scholes
We aren't accepting refunds and have not accepted refunds for the past several weeks I have been in this position.
I've read different here, and heard different from a friend of mine. But I don't really know first hand.
So while I hope that the this policy is reinstated, it doesn't appear to be from my perspective. I filed a complaint with the FTC, the Kansas AG, and the Kansas BBB, I guess we'll see what happens.
August 22, 2013, 04:15:45 AM
I have nothing to add, just read my posts in this thread. I'll describe the whole process in one post as soon as I reach my PC.
UPD. So the whole process with timeline.
Monday. Requested the refund by email. Told them I was aware of their "sales final" policy and still insisted the refund. Told them I would file complaints to BBB and AG. Asked for refund via the same method the order was paid, i.e. bitcoins.
Wednesday. Sent a copy through BFL online contact form.
Sunday. Filed online complaints to BBB and AG Kansas. Enclosed my invoice from BFL.
Tuesday. Received a reply asking for my BTC address. Gave one. Received email stating they had asked BitPay to refund. Received BTC.
Once again, both payment and refund are payed at fixed USD price. Invoice is in USD. Amount of BTC in both cases is determined by BitPay's instant rate.
UPD. So the whole process with timeline.
Monday. Requested the refund by email. Told them I was aware of their "sales final" policy and still insisted the refund. Told them I would file complaints to BBB and AG. Asked for refund via the same method the order was paid, i.e. bitcoins.
Wednesday. Sent a copy through BFL online contact form.
Sunday. Filed online complaints to BBB and AG Kansas. Enclosed my invoice from BFL.
Tuesday. Received a reply asking for my BTC address. Gave one. Received email stating they had asked BitPay to refund. Received BTC.
Once again, both payment and refund are payed at fixed USD price. Invoice is in USD. Amount of BTC in both cases is determined by BitPay's instant rate.
Since BFL isn't too concerned about the BBB since they are already rated an F, and the AG of Kansas is a mute issue since Josh is on record in stating that BFL has yet to be contacted by ANY government official, applying the same maths that Butterfly Labs uses in their correspondence, i.e. 2 + 2 = [ ], it's now a foregone conclusion that BF Labs Inc. is most definitely honoring ALL refund requests, payable via bitcoins simply by asking for it.
If this is not the case, though I have reason to believe that BFL will now honor ALL refund requests, they then should be considered scammers because they should not be allowed to choose between whom and whom not they should be giving refunds to, for it would set
Excellent job, Team BFL! I apologize for all I've stated about your slimy ass in the pass, unless...
Only thousands more to go... 1 out of thousands is not a pattern... that majority being refunded is.
August 21, 2013, 11:01:26 PM
My friend received a NO from BFL to his refund request on Monday of this week via email, he paid with a wire. Should he write asking again? Or did I miss the humor in this thread lol
IN all seriousness, if he wants it, tell him to ask again. August 21, 2013, 10:59:10 PM
My friend received a NO from BFL to his refund request on Monday of this week via email, he paid with a wire. Should he write asking again? Or did I miss the humor in this thread lol
August 21, 2013, 07:15:58 PM
offtopic: Bitpay are not deserving of any pedestal [yet, anyhow]...
They held on to ~USD$5000 of mine, refusing to send it either back to me, or on to the merchant. The situation was resolved, with fulsome apologies, after I made it clear I was going to tell everyone at the London BitCoin Meetup about my experience. Bitpay were sticking to "we don't need to talk to payers" attitude, the merchant was helpful, but reasonably said it wasn't really their problem and there wasn't anything they could do.
I need to emphasize that I did get multiple apologies in the end, and I think Bitpay eventually got to the point where they realised it might be worth looking at their policies that said it was okay to sit on other peoples money for days and days, and be dismissive and untruthful with the person who's money it is. I will use Bitpay again, but I will be damn sure that the transaction is 100% 'ordinary' first.
They held on to ~USD$5000 of mine, refusing to send it either back to me, or on to the merchant. The situation was resolved, with fulsome apologies, after I made it clear I was going to tell everyone at the London BitCoin Meetup about my experience. Bitpay were sticking to "we don't need to talk to payers" attitude, the merchant was helpful, but reasonably said it wasn't really their problem and there wasn't anything they could do.
I need to emphasize that I did get multiple apologies in the end, and I think Bitpay eventually got to the point where they realised it might be worth looking at their policies that said it was okay to sit on other peoples money for days and days, and be dismissive and untruthful with the person who's money it is. I will use Bitpay again, but I will be damn sure that the transaction is 100% 'ordinary' first.
Bravo!
See how it all works out? BitPay has a special relationship with BFL, and now both are making sure that fellow bitcoiners are as happy as possible will all Bitcoin transactions, for it was us, loyal bitcoiners, and no longer monumental assholes, that have springboarded all the now successful Bitcoin-based enterprises.
My eyes welled up when I penned the above. Keep up the fine wook BFL. Unless...
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