I never considered it an argument, merely a discussion.Oh and THIS IS TEH LAST WORD!
Cheers.
Topic: BFL are expecting 100,000 chips... - page 2. (Read 6989 times)
I dunno 'bout that. You haven't given me anything to cause me to question my beliefs sir. I never considered it an argument, merely a discussion.
Oh and THIS IS TEH LAST WORD!
Cheers.
I never considered it an argument, merely a discussion.Oh and THIS IS TEH LAST WORD!
Cheers.
I don't find it annoying in the least. I find it to be a savvy and geek friendly decision by Tom. I supply the PSU from the company I trust with the capabilities I believe I will require and BFL can keep their multiple questionable PSUs that I have zero input into. Meanwhile each time I plug in additional devices to said PSU I lower my cost basis for the whole setup compared to the competition.
I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.
I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.
I think creativex needs his/her horomone levels checked.He/she is VERY prone to argueing,like most estrogen laden "folks".
I know what you were referring to crazyates,but they'll just run you over with the same ole crap,just give up......
I know BFL's unit will be able to run out of the box when I get it.
While bASIC's folks will be diggin thru ole P.O.S. PSU's & burnin up thier units & demanding a refund when it happens & Tom will say "you should've bought the PSU I offer,sorry,no refund"
I've tried those $50 PSU's,guess what.......I lost more than that replacing mobo's,vid cards & CPU's.I will GLADLY spend $125-200 for a decent PSU
Now I do the same thing. I'll find anything to argue about, just to push people and get them going. I like seeing how firmly people believe in something.
He might do it for different reasons, but he's the same way: he CANNOT give in, no matter how convincing an argument, or how wrong he is.
...here I thought this was a discussion board. Silly me. BTW, bite me.
If you don't mind paying $230 more for 12Gh/s less then be my guest...madam.
I don't find it annoying in the least. I find it to be a savvy and geek friendly decision by Tom. I supply the PSU from the company I trust with the capabilities I believe I will require and BFL can keep their multiple questionable PSUs that I have zero input into. Meanwhile each time I plug in additional devices to said PSU I lower my cost basis for the whole setup compared to the competition.
I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.
I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.
I think creativex needs his/her horomone levels checked.He/she is VERY prone to argueing,like most estrogen laden "folks".
I know what you were referring to crazyates,but they'll just run you over with the same ole crap,just give up......
I know BFL's unit will be able to run out of the box when I get it.
While bASIC's folks will be diggin thru ole P.O.S. PSU's & burnin up thier units & demanding a refund when it happens & Tom will say "you should've bought the PSU I offer,sorry,no refund"
I've tried those $50 PSU's,guess what.......I lost more than that replacing mobo's,vid cards & CPU's.I will GLADLY spend $125-200 for a decent PSU
There are only a couple smart ways of managing BFL.
Scam A
1) Sell to consumers.
2) After 1 is finished sell more to yourself.
Scam B
1) Sell to consumers.
2) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
3) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
...
n) After (1)-(n-1) are finished, sell more to yourself.
It can only end one way. Scam B is just a longer, long con.
That's why competition is so important. It forces BFL to show their hand eventually.Scam A
1) Sell to consumers.
2) After 1 is finished sell more to yourself.
Scam B
1) Sell to consumers.
2) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
3) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
...
n) After (1)-(n-1) are finished, sell more to yourself.
It can only end one way. Scam B is just a longer, long con.
Competition is not good, here. For the current front runner, it increases the attractiveness of scam A relative to scam B.
I don't find it annoying in the least. I find it to be a savvy and geek friendly decision by Tom. I supply the PSU from the company I trust with the capabilities I believe I will require and BFL can keep their multiple questionable PSUs that I have zero input into. Meanwhile each time I plug in additional devices to said PSU I lower my cost basis for the whole setup compared to the competition.
I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.
I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.
I'm just saying it's annoying, and probably not something a lot of people are taking into account. I'm not saying it's a game changer, but it's still there.
He also said it would power 10 units. That's $27/bASIC which is very reasonable, so again BFL looks overpriced. You're barking up the wrong tree here. A monster PSU is not required to power a bASIC according to it's developer, a relatively inexpensive unit will do nicely and likely allow for expansion as well.
A power supply? Come on miners tend to have baskets of these...this miner certainly does. I've seen multiple posts already by people claiming to be BFL customers asking what BFL will do to match BTCFPGA prices/performance.
Umm any PSUs I have lying around are all old and/or inefficient. I'm glad you keep hundreds of dollars worth of PSUs to be able to power all those bASICs, but some of us don't. And yes, that does present an issue.My setup I've prepared doesn't include a PC or it's PSU to power 10 or even 1 bASICs. Having to either A) use a really old crappy PSU or B) buy a PSU just for powering one bASIC is just ridiculous. Now if I were gonna buy half a dozen bASICs, then it might be worth it to buy one, but still! That's a $200 "hidden" expense that I just don't want to have to deal with.
And yes, it is quite easy to spend $200 on a PSU, esp for a 1kW, 80Plus Gold unit from a good brand. The one Tom has for sale on his site is $270, but that's 80Plus Platinum, which means you're just about guaranteed 90+% efficiency at all levels.
A power supply? Come on miners tend to have baskets of these...this miner certainly does. I've seen multiple posts already by people claiming to be BFL customers asking what BFL will do to match BTCFPGA prices/performance.
Umm any PSUs I have lying around are all old and/or inefficient. I'm glad you keep hundreds of dollars worth of PSUs to be able to power all those bASICs, but some of us don't. And yes, that does present an issue.My setup I've prepared doesn't include a PC or it's PSU to power 10 or even 1 bASICs. Having to either A) use a really old crappy PSU or B) buy a PSU just for powering one bASIC is just ridiculous. Now if I were gonna buy half a dozen bASICs, then it might be worth it to buy one, but still! That's a $200 "hidden" expense that I just don't want to have to deal with.
How have you determined the power supply costs $200? I have never paid that for a PSU, and that includes the behemoth powering the computer I'm typing this message on(PCP&C 850). If I had paid $200 for a PSU I'd expect to power no less than 5 bASICs with it AND the computer feeding them making the cost for PSUs $40/bASIC...actually less if you're also powering a computer.
BFL products would've been fairly valued IMO if they'd released them in October when they "scheduled shipments". Their customers would've had a ridiculously brief ROI and be profitable already. At this point I believe they're horribly overpriced for a launch against stiff competition in January of 2013.
BFL products would've been fairly valued IMO if they'd released them in October when they "scheduled shipments". Their customers would've had a ridiculously brief ROI and be profitable already. At this point I believe they're horribly overpriced for a launch against stiff competition in January of 2013.
A power supply? Come on miners tend to have baskets of these...this miner certainly does. I've seen multiple posts already by people claiming to be BFL customers asking what BFL will do to match BTCFPGA prices/performance.
Umm any PSUs I have lying around are all old and/or inefficient. I'm glad you keep hundreds of dollars worth of PSUs to be able to power all those bASICs, but some of us don't. And yes, that does present an issue.My setup I've prepared doesn't include a PC or it's PSU to power 10 or even 1 bASICs. Having to either A) use a really old crappy PSU or B) buy a PSU just for powering one bASIC is just ridiculous. Now if I were gonna buy half a dozen bASICs, then it might be worth it to buy one, but still! That's a $200 "hidden" expense that I just don't want to have to deal with.
A power supply? Come on miners tend to have baskets of these...this miner certainly does. I've seen multiple posts already by people claiming to be BFL customers asking what BFL will do to match BTCFPGA prices/performance.
Indeed. BFL is already under pressure to lower prices.
Uhh what pressure is that? bASIC is cheaper and faster, sure, but doesn't come with a PSU, and more than likely uses more power. Avalon is the same price and about the same speed, and while Avalon does not need a host PC, it still uses more power. Reclaimer's 4U rack mount option was 80GH/s, while BFL's is 1.5TH/s. I think they're decently competitive. 
That only works if BFL was actually holding the bitcoins from preorder sales. They used BitPay to process BTC orders, and shortly after preorders opened BitPay was on the forum trying to sell large chunks of BTC from the BFL sales.
Actually it wouldn't work at all if they were paid in Bitcoins. They need FIAT to dump onto the exchanges in order to artificially bump up the market price for the eventual dump.
My way is safer, cheaper, fears no competition, and less time-intensive than Cuniculas method, and far more reasonable from a scammers perspective, so I think in terms of the paranoia awards, the clear winner.
Indeed. BFL is already under pressure to lower prices.
There are only a couple smart ways of managing BFL.
Scam A
1) Sell to consumers.
2) After 1 is finished sell more to yourself.
Scam B
1) Sell to consumers.
2) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
3) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
...
n) After (1)-(n-1) are finished, sell more to yourself.
It can only end one way. Scam B is just a longer, long con.
That's why competition is so important. It forces BFL to show their hand eventually. Scam A
1) Sell to consumers.
2) After 1 is finished sell more to yourself.
Scam B
1) Sell to consumers.
2) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
3) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
...
n) After (1)-(n-1) are finished, sell more to yourself.
It can only end one way. Scam B is just a longer, long con.
There are only a couple smart ways of managing BFL.
Scam A
1) Sell to consumers.
2) After 1 is finished sell more to yourself.
Scam B
1) Sell to consumers.
2) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
3) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
...
n) After (1)-(n-1) are finished, sell more to yourself.
It can only end one way. Scam B is just a longer, long con.
Scam A
1) Sell to consumers.
2) After 1 is finished sell more to yourself.
Scam B
1) Sell to consumers.
2) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
3) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
...
n) After (1)-(n-1) are finished, sell more to yourself.
It can only end one way. Scam B is just a longer, long con.
That only works if BFL was actually holding the bitcoins from preorder sales. They used BitPay to process BTC orders, and shortly after preorders opened BitPay was on the forum trying to sell large chunks of BTC from the BFL sales.
Since you guys brought it up, try this one on for size:
-Acquire VC funding to produce ASICs, sell "pre-orders" which are really zero-interest loans. Use VC money to begin production of ASICs, use loan money to begin artificially inflating bitcoin price, thereby increasing fervor for bitcoins and increasing pre-sales, which you can use to puff up bitcoin price more, rinse-repeat, stocking up on coins.
-Create "delays" and "improvements" to line extending time until shipment allowing more pre-orders to pile up and more coin collection / market manipulation, allow market to stabilize at new artificial price.
-At final breaking point, when competitors have product ready, and customers begin to balk and ask for refunds in sizable numbers, begin controlled (limited) shipment of product.
-When product reaches first wave of consumers, collect flood of new orders from people finally reassured that ASICs are real.
-Continue limited shipment until new orders begin to slow pace, ramp up "production" (read: shipping) to fill most orders in short span of time.
-Ship most/all orders (to deny returns), unload stockpile of bitcoin at artificially inflated price, crashing bitcoins price (after taking all the top level bids).
Close up shop, move to Aruba, live nice life.
Nothing illegal done, tons of cash made off pre-orders, tons of bitcoins turned into tons of fiat, miners left with worthless hardware they can't return.
How's THAT for a plan? Easier than supposedly running some 51% scheme, and fits nicely with current events (price rose *sharply* right after July '12).
-Acquire VC funding to produce ASICs, sell "pre-orders" which are really zero-interest loans. Use VC money to begin production of ASICs, use loan money to begin artificially inflating bitcoin price, thereby increasing fervor for bitcoins and increasing pre-sales, which you can use to puff up bitcoin price more, rinse-repeat, stocking up on coins.
-Create "delays" and "improvements" to line extending time until shipment allowing more pre-orders to pile up and more coin collection / market manipulation, allow market to stabilize at new artificial price.
-At final breaking point, when competitors have product ready, and customers begin to balk and ask for refunds in sizable numbers, begin controlled (limited) shipment of product.
-When product reaches first wave of consumers, collect flood of new orders from people finally reassured that ASICs are real.
-Continue limited shipment until new orders begin to slow pace, ramp up "production" (read: shipping) to fill most orders in short span of time.
-Ship most/all orders (to deny returns), unload stockpile of bitcoin at artificially inflated price, crashing bitcoins price (after taking all the top level bids).
Close up shop, move to Aruba, live nice life.
Nothing illegal done, tons of cash made off pre-orders, tons of bitcoins turned into tons of fiat, miners left with worthless hardware they can't return.
How's THAT for a plan? Easier than supposedly running some 51% scheme, and fits nicely with current events (price rose *sharply* right after July '12).
Sounds like a solid pump&dump scam. So in effect, every pre-order is backed by the equivalent amount of bitcoins
. But why the heck would they want to flash crash the market? Jump to: