Topic: BFL silent these past days? - page 2. (Read 7098 times)
So what are they going to do with the second set of wafers then considering they ran into rather large issues? Would that be a scrap?
I think I read they have at least 85000 asic --- the asic works ok but use more power than expected --- they need to find a easy design solution to the problem --- note these asic use less than 50% power of avalon (bfl asic will be better in long term - less power
) --- so design may end up in a much larger case with bigger power supplyNope. Their entire gen 1 first run was supposed to total 75,000 chips. They split the first batch of 12,000 into 2 and had 6 wafers delivered while the last few layers of the 2nd 6 were held back in case they ran into problems. The bulk order of 63,000 was supposed to go into production a few weeks after the whole 12 wafers from batch 1 were delivered but there's been no confirmation that order has gone ahead.
It looks like they're going to use what's already in production to fill early orders and that the bulk order will now be use for a revised design.
I cancelled my order with BFL when Avalon put out batch 3 orders... but could the silence be that they are preparing to ship?
Reverse psychology perhaps?
When they have absolutely nothing, they are updating like crazy about all their progress. Now that they are updating nothing... maybe they are actually making progress? It seems like we are starting to see some suspicious activity on Josh's Pool and then there is Luke's development miner on eligius.
I guess either way it doesn't really matter... but seems like as good a way as any to pass the time until Avalon start shipping out their next two batches.
Reverse psychology perhaps?
When they have absolutely nothing, they are updating like crazy about all their progress. Now that they are updating nothing... maybe they are actually making progress? It seems like we are starting to see some suspicious activity on Josh's Pool and then there is Luke's development miner on eligius.
I guess either way it doesn't really matter... but seems like as good a way as any to pass the time until Avalon start shipping out their next two batches.
6,000 sq/ft facility, 22+ (and growing) employees, and one bathroom.
Anyone know what the warranty was for the FPGA single? I emailed them about mine on Tuesday this week, the power supply died. Haven't received any helpful information at all in the forums either. Plus finding out I can't do an upgrade any more makes it even more of a facepalm for me. I received it on November 2nd 2012 I believe... warranty has to be good still right?
FPGAs use to have a 6month warranty. Future asic products are lifetime. Im not sure if the fpga warrarnty has changed since they were first released but im positive it use to be 6 months. 
BFL official update channel.
As a serious investors with self respect I do not resort to monitoring troll-box to get updates.
So here's the latest official update I've had :
Email :
In the meanwhile I've made some forum diving and subscribed to get notice of new post in the /Announcements/ section.
Here's what I've got so far:
Announcements :
Oh and they're also making contest for the best BFL drawings.
I've heard rumors they would give a discount for early investors but I can't confirm that.
This isn't what I'd call professional communications.
To be honest I did search the forum and 90% of what I saw looked like this : A troll or a customers with a Jalapeno or less whining, people telling him to STFU or get a refund ... and Josh coming from time to time to insult someone at random shedding doubt on their capabilities.
As a serious investors with self respect I do not resort to monitoring troll-box to get updates.
So here's the latest official update I've had :
Email :
Quote
Butterfly Labs Announcement
January 2013
Hello everyone. It's been about a month since our last update and it's high time we had another, since we have lots of information to share this time around....This means our delivery date is expected the week of the 10th of February...
January 2013
Hello everyone. It's been about a month since our last update and it's high time we had another, since we have lots of information to share this time around....This means our delivery date is expected the week of the 10th of February...
In the meanwhile I've made some forum diving and subscribed to get notice of new post in the /Announcements/ section.
Here's what I've got so far:
Announcements :
Quote
15 March BFL News
Apparently BFL has now attained the vaunted status of being large enough to attract a DDoS. This morning, starting about 1AM CST, the BFL sites started getting over 1 Gbs of traffic, effectively knocking everything offline....
Apparently BFL has now attained the vaunted status of being large enough to attract a DDoS. This morning, starting about 1AM CST, the BFL sites started getting over 1 Gbs of traffic, effectively knocking everything offline....
Oh and they're also making contest for the best BFL drawings.
I've heard rumors they would give a discount for early investors but I can't confirm that.
This isn't what I'd call professional communications.
To be honest I did search the forum and 90% of what I saw looked like this : A troll or a customers with a Jalapeno or less whining, people telling him to STFU or get a refund ... and Josh coming from time to time to insult someone at random shedding doubt on their capabilities.
The ASIC designer is some guy who works full time at a bank in France and works for BFL nights and weekends (probably like 10 hours part time), and the other parts of the "team" are the contract PCB manufacturers.
No! There was a post with an ASIC metal layer schematics. Custo msilicon Solutions Inc. is deisgning and manufacturing this ASIC. I don't know what this french guy is doing but it's not the ASIC, not the PCB and not the software. Maybe it's their project lead?!
The ASIC is designed and produced by an external company. BFL has no knowledge about ASIC design and manufacturing. They allowed this external company to make the most stupid beginner errors with this ASIC.
I'm pretty sure there is no engineering team. The ASIC designer is some guy who works full time at a bank in France and works for BFL nights and weekends (probably like 10 hours part time), and the other parts of the "team" are the contract PCB manufacturers. BFL = sales & marketing hoping like hell they can stumble their way into shipping a product before people pull their pre-orders.
Honestly I can't really see a KC company being a successful ASIC company. Shortage in the talent pool anyone? Maybe if they relocated to where engineers are plentiful, say........California, they might have a chance of delivering this year.
The ASIC is designed and produced by an external company. BFL has no knowledge about ASIC design and manufacturing. They allowed this external company to make the most stupid beginner errors with this ASIC.
I'm pretty sure there is no engineering team. The ASIC designer is some guy who works full time at a bank in France and works for BFL nights and weekends (probably like 10 hours part time), and the other parts of the "team" are the contract PCB manufacturers. BFL = sales & marketing hoping like hell they can stumble their way into shipping a product before people pull their pre-orders.
I think I read they have at least 85000 asic --- the asic works ok but use more power than expected --- they need to find a easy design solution to the problem --- note these asic use less than 50% power of avalon (bfl asic will be better in long term - less power ) --- so design may end up in a much larger case with bigger power supply
) --- so design may end up in a much larger case with bigger power supplyI don't know how many ASICs they have, and they seems to work - well kind of - but I don't think those ASICs are working good enough for a product. At those little details in the videos, messages and pictures you can get from them leads me to this conclusion. If you have experience with ASIC design and manufacturing, read between the lines of their success messages. Those messages sounds good, but if you read about their remaining problems and the planed solutions you get another- very different - picture.
And then there is another major point: BFL is not Avalon - if they could really ship the products this month you would read victory messages from Josh in all forums. This silence alone speaks for itself!
I have a few orders of 60 GH mining rigs so I am hopefull they will ship this month--- and Josh being silent is not good news --- and bfl taking about 4 week after getting asic to get a working proto type running make me thinks that the problem are greater than stated --- all I am trying to say is if the asic is ok and only has power problem --- it is fixable with a good engineer
I think I read they have at least 85000 asic --- the asic works ok but use more power than expected --- they need to find a easy design solution to the problem --- note these asic use less than 50% power of avalon (bfl asic will be better in long term - less power ) --- so design may end up in a much larger case with bigger power supply
) --- so design may end up in a much larger case with bigger power supplyI don't know how many ASICs they have, and they seems to work - well kind of - but I don't think those ASICs are working good enough for a product. At those little details in the videos, messages and pictures you can get from them leads me to this conclusion. If you have experience with ASIC design and manufacturing, read between the lines of their success messages. Those messages sounds good, but if you read about their remaining problems and the planed solutions you get another- very different - picture.
And then there is another major point: BFL is not Avalon - if they could really ship the products this month you would read victory messages from Josh in all forums. This silence alone speaks for itself!
I mean think about this one tweet (it was like a Q and A type deal)
Just ponder on that for a moment.
1. Evades the question straight away.
2. "That's what's happened at the foundry" - as in "we need the foundry to fix it and give us more chips".
3. classic BFL, "it bodes very well for us" - how in the world does a problem in the manufacture of the chip (or the chip design, it's not clear) bode well?
Quote
Has the ASIC firm got back to you on why they think just the chip is running about twice as much power as expected, and will power consumption come down for wafers 76+?" We are in process with that. We have a theory as to what's going on and we're trying to confirm that's what happened at the foundry and if so, it bodes very well for us
Just ponder on that for a moment.
1. Evades the question straight away.
2. "That's what's happened at the foundry" - as in "we need the foundry to fix it and give us more chips".
3. classic BFL, "it bodes very well for us" - how in the world does a problem in the manufacture of the chip (or the chip design, it's not clear) bode well?
He meant bowl's well.
Quote
There is not so many detail known about the board, but some things stinks here too. Maybe they outsourced the board design as well.
Surely, they're not using the only PCB outfit in Chicago owned by Greeks who have relatives in KC, are they?
I agree they have a major power problem - 170 watts at 28 GH is not a good sign for a pcb designed for 60 watts-- but good engineers always come up with a solution
They don't have good engineers. The ASIC is designed and produced by an external company. BFL has no knowledge about ASIC design and manufacturing. They allowed this external company to make the most stupid beginner errors with this ASIC.
There is not so many detail known about the board, but some things stinks here too. Maybe they outsourced the board design as well. Unfortunately the BFL people seems to have no clue what their suppliers are doing. In addition they are really bad in prjoject management.
I think we have to wait for at least one additional wafer run until Custom Silicon Inc. is delivering an ASIC that could be used to build a product.
I think I read they have at least 85000 asic --- the asic works ok but use more power than expected --- they need to find a easy design solution to the problem --- note these asic use less than 50% power of avalon (bfl asic will be better in long term - less power
) --- so design may end up in a much larger case with bigger power supply I agree they have a major power problem - 170 watts at 28 GH is not a good sign for a pcb designed for 60 watts-- but good engineers always come up with a solution
They don't have good engineers. The ASIC is designed and produced by an external company. BFL has no knowledge about ASIC design and manufacturing. They allowed this external company to make the most stupid beginner errors with this ASIC.
There is not so many detail known about the board, but some things stinks here too. Maybe they outsourced the board design as well. Unfortunately the BFL people seems to have no clue what their suppliers are doing. In addition they are really bad in prjoject management.
I think we have to wait for at least one additional wafer run until Custom Silicon Inc. is delivering an ASIC that could be used to build a product.
At least they finally admitted they don't have a set shipping date. No more next month next month next month next week next month business. That was good comedy while it lasted though!
You say this right?
It was only 7 days ago https://www.facebook.com/ButterflyLabs/posts/561388687226275?comment_id=6319490&reply_comment_id=6319537&total_comments=3
I just want them to start shipping, or at least Kano and ckolivas get theirs soon. Luke-jr "owning" the only one that's been "shipped" and mining just rubs salt in the wound.
At least they finally admitted they don't have a set shipping date. No more next month next month next month next week next month business. That was good comedy while it lasted though!
So BFL just tweeted the "Luke-Jr's Little Single is now running at around 27-30GHash/s". They don't mention anything about power consumption.
My speculation is that they can't fix the power issues without new ASICs from China. They are conspicuously silent about power consumption in their updates apart from relative measures like gaining a small % here from a board redesign, or a small % here from firmware - but I think they actually need entire new chips to be manufactured before they can meet power requirements and they know if they let on to this fact then it's all over.
They will stall and stall with power and firmware and 'developer units' (like Luke Jrs) until they get new chips in like a month. Mass shipping in 2 months if they don't go bankrupt.
My speculation is that they can't fix the power issues without new ASICs from China. They are conspicuously silent about power consumption in their updates apart from relative measures like gaining a small % here from a board redesign, or a small % here from firmware - but I think they actually need entire new chips to be manufactured before they can meet power requirements and they know if they let on to this fact then it's all over.
They will stall and stall with power and firmware and 'developer units' (like Luke Jrs) until they get new chips in like a month. Mass shipping in 2 months if they don't go bankrupt.
I agree they have a major power problem - 170 watts at 28 GH is not a good sign for a pcb designed for 60 watts-- but good engineers always come up with a solution to use the current asic
eg 3x 20 GH = 60 GH single -each miner at about 100 watts--- or change the power adaptor plug and use a power supply that has all the voltages external --- less heat on pcb and no power supply issues ----- lots of other option are avaiable
the only problem is that the pcb may have to be redesigned ---10 layer proto type pcb may take 3-4 days but a production pcb run of a few thousand may take a few weeks
I mean think about this one tweet (it was like a Q and A type deal)
Just ponder on that for a moment.
1. Evades the question straight away.
2. "That's what's happened at the foundry" - as in "we need the foundry to fix it and give us more chips".
3. classic BFL, "it bodes very well for us" - how in the world does a problem in the manufacture of the chip (or the chip design, it's not clear) bode well?
Quote
Has the ASIC firm got back to you on why they think just the chip is running about twice as much power as expected, and will power consumption come down for wafers 76+?" We are in process with that. We have a theory as to what's going on and we're trying to confirm that's what happened at the foundry and if so, it bodes very well for us
Just ponder on that for a moment.
1. Evades the question straight away.
2. "That's what's happened at the foundry" - as in "we need the foundry to fix it and give us more chips".
3. classic BFL, "it bodes very well for us" - how in the world does a problem in the manufacture of the chip (or the chip design, it's not clear) bode well?
So BFL just tweeted the "Luke-Jr's Little Single is now running at around 27-30GHash/s". They don't mention anything about power consumption.
My speculation is that they can't fix the power issues without new ASICs from China. They are conspicuously silent about power consumption in their updates apart from relative measures like gaining a small % here from a board redesign, or a small % here from firmware - but I think they actually need entire new chips to be manufactured before they can meet power requirements and they know if they let on to this fact then it's all over.
They will stall and stall with power and firmware and 'developer units' (like Luke Jrs) until they get new chips in like a month. Mass shipping in 2 months if they don't go bankrupt.
My speculation is that they can't fix the power issues without new ASICs from China. They are conspicuously silent about power consumption in their updates apart from relative measures like gaining a small % here from a board redesign, or a small % here from firmware - but I think they actually need entire new chips to be manufactured before they can meet power requirements and they know if they let on to this fact then it's all over.
They will stall and stall with power and firmware and 'developer units' (like Luke Jrs) until they get new chips in like a month. Mass shipping in 2 months if they don't go bankrupt.
Jump to: