Topic: BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes) - page 287. (Read 243437 times)

I should've posted when I decided to take it offline but whatever. This forum has been a mess with petty shit that I don't want anything to do with. I'm not gonna keep the site up it was never that well coded or optimized the server was way to expensive and it was still really slow. I also own biblepaypool.com and never did anything with it they both expire on December 26th 2018 if anyone wants to register.

I agree with the comment about opening up an account with Exchanges. I personally don't trust my info going out to them. Especially the smaller unknown ones. Would it be possible to implement a similar service like Byteball did where you can exchange the currency from within the wallet to something like BTC and then have it send it to an address you already have? Byteball's option for that is a much higher fee than sending it to an exchange first, but for the sake of protecting my information, I think it is sometimes worth that fee. I honestly don't know if there would be an easy way of doing the reverse effect. Perhaps worth the consideration?

Edit: Also, BiblePayFaucet.com has been down for a while. Perhaps updating this page https://www.biblepay.org/freebbp/#faucets to reflect that?

Yeah, new users are really helpful, because they're usually on the fence about whether to come aboard or not. If an idea doesn't have appeal for them, then it's not a good idea. That's how I look at it.

I think finding a Christian merchant is putting the cart before the horse. It's extra work for the merchant, and the low price of the coin makes it difficult for them to count in millions of BBP (but the price is what it is.) If it were a stock, I'd recommend doing a reverse split just to get the price up into something people and merchants can wrap their heads around, or have some kind of  levels to the coin, like Byteball  does with Bytes, Megabyte and Gigabyte. Maybe that's not feasible or useful though.

People need a reason to use the coin as currency, or else it just becomes an investment thing. Rob mentioned putting videos up. If there were a way to organize them right, we could possibly sell a subscription service, where for certain amount of BBP per month, they have access to a searchable scripture, custom prayers, videos, etc. That's providing a service that could attract people.A more sophisticated addition could be a custom course in Christianity, so that people can wind their way through the material and feel accomplishment, and even get some kind of "diploma" and BBP as a result.

Another thing I've seen before is custom prayers, where someone could have a group of people pray for them or their loved ones, and charge for that service if possible. I've seen that kind of thing before, but not sure if it was free or for a fee.

I think one of the biggest issues is most people don't want to open an exchange account and trade for BBP if they're not already in crypto (which is the vast majority).  If there was some way to make that easier, I think the popularity might take off. It seems like almost all the coins have this issue.

The general idea is to provide something that people would want, and will give payment in BBP. Instead of asking people to use the coin, require it in exchange for something.

I'll have to sleep on it more. My best ideas come in dreams or prayer. I'm pretty good spitballing ideas, but implementation is not my strong suit.

Rob's quote at the end of your post is beautiful!

Thanks Rob, no problem. I appreciate your creativity and your determined effort to build the absolute best coin possible. We've made a lot of progress this past year. Most of the challenges we face now aren't due to our decisions and actions, but to the price decline of BTC.

We have an incredibly talented community that is dedicated to BiblePay and the Christian principles that distinguish us from other projects. Our sponsorship of over 100 kids in poverty speaks for itself and our deepest motivation. We may disagree at times about the best path forward, but we're always united in our faith and the fact that Jesus is our leader.

Again thanks for your vision, and the inspiration that comes from your love for the Lord and His children.

Welcome back Togo.  Thanks for the research.

On Christianity, I think a lot of atheists or non-Christians can easily come to the conclusion that we are extremists, because we always talk about The only way, truth, and life is Jesus (to us, there is simply no option to consider another savior, as there is only one true savior).  So this my-way-or-highway attitude gets us in frequent arguments and frequent trouble.  But we have to stand up for our beliefs until the end, just as in the Tribulation without taking the mark - to be saved.

I read the thing about "should we rebrand" into a science coin etc.  I'm just so Pro-Jesus that I can't fathom it.  You guys would lose me for sure.  If the supermajority voted to remove Christianity from this coin, I would immediately leave and would give credentials to MIP and someone would need to hire a dev.  I want to suffer through any heartaches that we need to go through to make it as a Christian crypto.  There are 1 billion+ Christians out there, and no shortage of innovation here.  So I think we can do it, we just need to conceptualize and implement and mature into a useful service that Christians regard as a serious asset to the religion and life - as the salt & light of the world, we can be very useful to non-Christians.  We are the ones who give strong moral advice, and lead people to the light.  Surely we can be a Christian crypto with a useful service to non-Christians as a utility as well. (That opens our market up globally).

I have a report from Compassion, they did give us an up to month (sort of in the end-of-year format) but the woman said something like Dont bother us again - we wont do it for you again - but I thought, wait a minute, the web site is broken because we have too many childrens records in it - so we have a right to ask again LOL, but Ill talk about this more later.  Ill also provide the link for this report.

I'm glad you like both POG & POOM.  On Proof of burn, POG is not related to it (only in the sense that we collect information on the fact that tithes were paid, but nothing is burnt).  Its more innovative in the sense that we would have an integrated pool.  Thats pretty impressive, I think, Bitcoin has all these pools, and we would be out here with our own internal pool handling an unlimited amount of miners.  (Unlimited because each block can hold 32,767 miners rewards, and we have 205 blocks per day for the round).  That I think is a powerful thing.  We could also gain some positive PR if POG caused growth - in that we could take a month of stats and talk about how much our miners donated to the orphan foundation.

The Foundation address is currently in my control.  As you can see however, all donated coins total up to the monthly reports and compassion payments in our revenue and expense records.  However I do point out - I dont mind decentralizing control of this to 3 devs through multisig address - once we grow a little bigger.  Think about it, while you have me here, why would I risk stealing an orphan fund tithe and capitualiting my entire community and trust , it doesnt make sense.  (Also, note that I am so God Fearing that I always add on a little bit when I liquidate compassions amount).  So its in good hands until we build out our community.  But I agree the decentralized nature of POOM is also nice - and we can also look into that later even if we end up with POG. 

Well anyway thanks for the compliments on PODC.  I hope I didn't miss anything.

Ok, maybe I did misinterpret what you meant.  I actually thought you meant "because of Rob's impulsive leadership style", BiblePays investors Have definitely fled the coin.

I apologize for jumping to conclusions, thank you for pointing out that you weren't singling me out as the source of our recent drawdown.

I didn't attack you or anyone else. Take a minute to relax and then re-read what I wrote. It isn't "mean spirited."

Yes, PODC is "hard to setup." This is widely known. That's why I suggested we make it and the other features easier.

I wasn't referring to a "popularity" model being untested, but to the POG / tithing model.

Advertising/Marketing:
a. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.36138565
b. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.41633372

Spaghetti Documentation:
a. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.46214666
b. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.46250760

Jaap & April need PR help:
- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.46534233
(April has some professional PR experience, shes been very nice to help us)

Stats/Growth Indicators?:
- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.42714861
(Are we tracking number of miners now?, a monthly report on our key stats/growth would be cool)

Google Ads:
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=204.0
(Google ended their Cryptocurrency Ad Ban like 2 months ago,
zthomasz pointed out we rank like 6th/7th for keyword "christian cryptocurrency",
to my knowledge no one is running a google ad for BiblePay right now)

BiblePay Advertising Google Sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1grgb5Y74XMqShKDp051h1bSZVbHzRLna1bYzoTh6MAY/edit#gid=0

NOTE: Once we get the end of the year statement from Compassion I believe we could then finally get Bitcointalk Banner Advertising from Theymos
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=83.0

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Recently I advertised on WCG forums, Rosetta@home forums, I reached out to Team Christians, I advertised on BOINC subreddit
Combined probably only got like 300-400+ views though, 70% from BOINC reddit, the BOINC Cruncher guide has 220 views so far
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=314.0

PODC setup is not easy/user friendly, but we havent even made a good guide, and we dont even have a Youtube tutorial!
(guy who made a mining setup video for BiblePay got 3,000 views!, pretty sure it became outdated when PODC came out,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1yKx8KsH60 [60-70% of the population are visual learners!])

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We have all been early adopters and beta testers I feel like the BiblePay code is stable now

If we truly want to beat out and consume Gridcoin and get all the BOINC Crunchers I believe we should rebrand away from Christianity being the main focus/name,
reading all the Gridcoin Discord/Reddit/Slack messages the past year, I dont think Ive seen one religious person there, but I have seen religion joked about a few times, the WCG forums also had someone with a Freedom From Religion signature (our biggest reddit post was about us reaching rank 666 on coinmarketcap..., weve also been attacked by bitcointalk forum mod and high ranking member for being religious coin...) The current crypto population is not very open to religion, I think this will change as more people get into crypto, but for now, that is the case

6 Common Perceptions of Christians
https://churchleaders.com/outreach-missions/outreach-missions-articles/138865-i-like-jesus-not-the-church.html

Five Ways Christianity Is Increasingly Viewed as Extremist
https://www.barna.com/research/five-ways-christianity-is-increasingly-viewed-as-extremist/

Is Christianity on the decline?

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Assuming we want to keep Christianity as a key focus of the coin
and that we want as many miners as possible (1 click mining),
I think moving away from PODC is a good idea then

It does suck though, because I believe the direction Rob has gone with Masternodes and POBH/PODC as superior to Gridcoin/Foldingcoin/Curecoin,
and PODC is one of the coolest things we do, Id support BiblePay 1 click mining coin and a rebranded Science Fork coin, though sounds like a mess supporting 2 coins

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I have to re-read Proof of Giving (POG) and Proof of Orphan Mining (POOM) some more
https://wiki.biblepay.org/Concept_POOM
https://wiki.biblepay.org/Proof-of-Giving

With POOM, I didnt like that all of our private info is on one service, but I love how it decentralizes the orphan sponsorships!

With POG, the coins all go the Orphan Address? Who controls that address?
Is POG similar to Proof of Burn? Are there reasons why other coins haven't really used Proof of Burn?
(theres been a ton of bad PR lately about how Bitcoin/crypto uses so much energy, this sounds like an interesting solution)

Slimcoin looks like it died
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-slimcoin-proof-of-burn-new-block-gen-mineable-by-low-power-computer-613213
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/slimcoin-first-proof-of-burn-currency-decentralized-web-1141676

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Warning: Shark Pool
"All alts, including forks and splits are acts of war against Bitcoin and are going to be treated as such.
Shark Pool miners will exclusively mine empty blocks on alts and sell the profits for Bitcoin (BCH).
We are looking for capable generals to hunt alts down at 0% poolfee!"
https://www.ccn.com/war-bitcoin-cash-startup-launches-mining-pool-to-attack-altcoins-bch-forks/
https://sharkpool.cash/

Well actually there is no evidence that "I" or "my" leadership style is what drove away investors.  Actually there is more evidence that the infighting which I have seen first hand in this community (IE community members actually attacking the lead developer) combined with the current HODL bear market is what is causing attrition.  

We are clearly hard to set up.  And I am receiving these complaints that we are hard to setup (IE these aren't pie in the sky fairy tales).  

POOM is not being considered at the same time as POG - they are separate large ideas.  I will put POG up for vote first, simply because of thesnats concerns about POOM (basically one allowing their account to be logged in - which I admit IS questionable).  But I dont say the same thing about POG.

Btw, I never received an answer for my e-mail, so I think you consider fully engaging in the replies before blaming me as the "problem" for our current rut.  (Your post is a good example of what is a bad example to be posted on the forum - something that attacks with a mean spirit, and something that is not known to be true).

In addition, I don't think we ever Had a 'real' PR campaign.  I don't think we have PR problems yet (other than image perception problems).  We arent even scratching the surface yet.  Thats what is all about - becoming popular.  And its not untested - the popularity model worked for the top 50 coins - except they did it with popular mining algorithms.  We are supposed to Christian here - therefore I support POG instead of X11.

EDIT:  Just to clarify, POG has to be considered, voted, programmed, tested in testnet, and scheduled for a mandatory btw.  There is no consideration of releasing untested code.  This cycle probably takes a minimum of 60 days even if we were trying to release quickly, and as long as half a year if we were doing this at slow speed.   We also have to consider CoinExchange, when they will allow an upgrade.  If you were referring to my impulsive removal of QT, that was once, but I think the longer term track record of reliable releases speaks more accurately.  On that proposal, Ill be resuscitating it soon and starting a discussion on it also (so in the end - it will erase that instance of being impulsive).

no.....this will be your problem=native english lang

Know any?

1000x wrote


paid for PR professionals

I get the concerns about frequent changes... but the most common heard issue is "its so dang hard to get setup"...

I have concerns about removing the stake requirement, and some other aspects but in general I like the idea.

I do agree PR is a large issue we need to address.. I'm open to suggestions

Licht: can you pm me,  i'd like to talk a bit via email

I just saw the first new block in the podc list in BC. Looks good

Even if the proposed POG solution with it's own set of rules/terminology has some merit, the timing is questionable. With POOM still in discussion, POG will be perceived as another example of the impulsive leadership style that investors have grown weary of.

It's also unlikely that POG will repair our multi-faceted public relations problem. It could easily do more harm than good by causing loyal yet battle-stressed investors to leave the project. If that happens, this attempt to attract new money with an untested idea will amplify the attrition problem.

Instead of reacting to the current PR challenges by adding another layer of well-intended complexity, I suggest we first focus on making it easier to setup the features we already have before introducing anything new like POG or POOM. At the very least I think we should remain steady during this latest bitcoin price implosion and postpone any major changes until after Christmas.

Thanks Tybiboune, good insights.

I really have to agree with you to a point- regarding the ability to make PODC 'friendly' - given enough time and resources, that might be possible.  But I also wonder, maybe we should leave that gem and community reward for Gridcoin.  Maybe we should consider focusing all our time energy and intelligence on the gospel here - possibly - with POG instead.   I will leave this part of the discussion for later, but from an overarching summary:  I feel at this point in time, we could have all the tools in the world, but when we are done - "maybe" 10 housewives would still never dream of installing a second program on their PC to gain RAC (IE downloading boinc, registering with Rosetta) and learning what RAC is, but they "might" consider loading up biblepay and clicking Start.  That's basically where we are.  Its possible theoretically to take BOINC and virtualize all of its features (with developer business logic/assumptions down to a crypto interface), but do we have the time - resources here to do it within one year, and will BOINC hold up against the Swongle test forever?  These are all risks we have to consider.  

Let me move on to POG:

Please, if this explanation is too technical for anyone, note that I am not too exaspirated to explain it in more detail.

Tithing is the act of giving your BiblePay away to the orphan foundation (in contrast to burning it).  It allows us to record your public receiving address in a transaction (if we want to reward you later with a mining reward), and adds you to the internal pool.

POG is an idea where we have an internal pool (inside the wallet) instead of a set of supporter pools.  It accomplishes this by paying coinbase rewards to multiple recipients (instead of 1, we pay up to 32,767 recipients per 'tranche').  A tranche is a set of miners who have similar 'tithing power'.  Tithing power is the sum that you gave over the last 24 hours to the orphanage foundation.

In POG, we level the playing field by rewarding tithe_weight to the solving ability with a higher magnitude than mining_hashpower.  Another words, with higher tithes, a laptop beats a 96 core miner for the current block because of the tithe_weight.  


And then philosophically speaking, we have to look at what we are gaining in either scenario.  If we stay with PODC, it is a given we spend a lot on electricity (about $20K per month as of last month).  POG otoh, removing the 'competetiveness' from mining and changing the heart to giving, lowers the electricity consumption (because you are rewarded for tithe_weight, not hashpower), therefore theoretically more orphans could be sponsored with POG than with PODC.  

I agree on the being nice to eachother!

I will try to work on a more simple description of POG,  it seems to be an issue for non-native English speakers.

Also,  Red/Green checks for indicators will be added to the PODC Status script soon

Approx. 24 hours before block 86100 (thats Nov 27th roughly).  At that point the wallet starts trying to make a budget, and the pool moves the highest voted proposals from the voting section to the budget section.

Hi everyone!

A few comments here, if I'm allowed....

First of all, I'm getting really tired of those "fights" on this discussion thread. It really looks like angry teens fighting, with often silly and unproved arguments, and it mostly makes the project look like something not attractive at all. Especially concerning the purpose and name of the project... Really disappointing.

Then, concerning the "Proof of Giving"... Maybe someone will give a simple and clear explanation of how this actually works (not with specific terms, eventually created for the purpose of the project, but with general accessible vocabulary) ("tithe"?? really? we're talking about "tithe"? I'm not native English but I'm fluent, and I had to check the translation for this word...). Then people will be able to understand how it's supposed to work. But for now, I get really lost in the explanations on the wiki page That's for the "simplification" part Maybe it will actually be easier to start working with the BiblePay project using that new "algorithm", but I do believe that the "easy" part of it has to come from the applications that allow a new member to create a new wallet and start the mining process. Give that "Proof of Giving", "Proof of Distributed Computing" or "Proof of Waking Up Early In the Morning" names won't change anything, as long as the user has to go through a fastidious process to start it all.
The PoDC concept is not bad at all, the fact that new users have to get to a certain amount of staked BBP to be able to get their 100% reward is smart and good too, it would just all be clearer if we had one modern and stylish application that configures everything in a few clicks, and then clearly shows what to expect (what you get from that podcstatus.php one user posted, but more "synthetic", for example using some gauges to show the current status, the estimated delay before going "full PODC", and some red/light checkboxes to show whether BOINC is correctly linked and everything).
This application could even be used to give members access to those lovely photos of the orphans and the helped people that benefit from our actions, and also to access some specific docs (accounting and such).

No member would ever ask those neverending "I registered few days ago but I cannot see my xxxx info on the pool/biblepay-central and I'm not receiving any BBP yet, how can I be sure that I did everything right?"
And the global feeling will be more friendly and welcoming, less hardcore-techie geek (not saying that the members are not very welcoming, I did feel very welcome when I joined the community few months ago, and people were very helpful to guide me through the hassle of setting everything right).

I'm 100% sure that focusing on this aspect would do much more for global adoption than any algorithm change.

Peace to everyone, and be nice to eachother!