Topic: BitBay |Decentralized Marketplace|Smart Contracts|IoT Tech|Markets Open - page 136. (Read 339485 times)

what time are we expecting the new release?

If there's one thing that this thread is making clear is that the smart contracts are a really new thing for most of us. The entire concept and how it should be conducted hasn't crystallised yet.

This is an announcement thread on a bitcointalk forum. So these are the people that are the most in the loop. Outside there's a world where most people haven't even heard of cryptocurrency and think that Bitcoin is a video game or something.

The idea of complete strangers being able to negotiate any type of deal without any form of middle men or government protection is just utterly alien to them.

So I think some humility is required here.

Nobody has figured escrows out entirely. We don't know what the ideal escrow amounts are for each type of contract. There are many possible trades and deals possible in this world and they probably all require their own scheme.

There are three variables in a smart contract:

- Amount
- Symmetry in the collateral of each party
- Time (the optional limit after which the collateral is automatically destroyed)

These variables may be entirely different for a large gold trader, an online freelancer or a guitar merchant.

That's what fascinates me about this technology. Sure it has potential to be worth a dollar per BAY eventually but that's just lame speculation. What's really interesting is that we have barely begun to scratch the surface between the game theory behind all this. We don't know what people respond to best, we don't know what are the best and the worst scenarios and there's probably also a meta-game of contracts arising depending on the level of trust in the markets.

I can't be the only one who's excited about this.

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EDIT: For example, do you realise that the time extension on a smart contract also makes for a less riskful way of trading? I'm not sure if it's possible yet, (it certainly wouldn't be difficult to implement) but rather than burning the coins after expiration, the contract could also simply release the coins again. This means that you won't ever lose your escrow, but what you will lose is liquidity.  

So in the situation where a deal goes bust and either one of the parties isn't happy. They chose not to release the coins immediately but after the four years that the escrow has set on it.  

The unhappy customer may be fine with having his coins stalled for four years. But for a shady dealer looking to scam more people, those four years are disastrous. He needs that money right now in order to scam more people.

It's a far milder punishment for not holding up the deal but that may be a serious enough deterrent for serial scammers. In other words, merely having a time-release contract with a merchant is proof enough that you're not dealing with someone that is able to scam a lot of people.

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And for the speculative traders: Imagine a coin that encourages trading but occasionally burns or freezes coins like this. Imagine what that does to the value of the coins you yourself are holding

You lose money. Seller lose reputation and that would be last time he would sell anything in Marketplace. Keep in mind smart contract can't protect you from scammers nothing can but it makes it less attractive for them so you'll never have to deal with scams who take your money and don't send you product.

If you're buying from new seller it's your job to make sure that deal goes smoothly for you and you shouldn't buy from him if he isn't able to put some money in escrow. Even Nigerian prince can sell stuff in marketplace as long as he can find people who wants to get scam but he'll back out as soon as you ask him to deposit money in escrow.

Now, if seller is old and has good reputation. Hell..I wouldn't even worry about it. In that case you'll just contact him and he'll send you the merchanise or update you with whatever is going on. Someone who has spent 1 year in building reputation there is less likely he'll come out and scam because he'll be risking his account.

There will be angry buyers and there will be angry sellers but that's something that comes with business and there is no way to go around it. All you can do is not deal with that seller again and go to his account and give him negative review just like ebay.

That's the situation that smart contracts are supposed to make so unappealing that both parties do whatever they can to avoid it. So, the same thing as when the merchant doesn't receive the payment. The deal is off and the escrow stays where it is and if it's timed then both parties lose their escrow.

If the escrow is particularly high then it's recommended to set up a new contract with a new escrow and release the old contract the moment the new one is set.

In example 1 - what happens if the goods are never received?

Bought another BTC, damnn still freakin cheap

DD = deposit from both sides

It doesn't mean you need "double money". If you're selling $100,000 car you can put $1 in an escrow if you like but obviously more you put in more secure the deal will be. It's all upto seller & buyer how much they want to put in escrow. There is no "mandatory" deposit requirement from "smart contract". It's given there as a safety measure. Obviously, you don't have to use it if you don't want and those who're against it can just leave it alone.

In simple terms:

Seller A is selling an earphone for $50. Buyer sends him a message. He replies. They both agree to seal the deal WITHOUT escrow. In that case no money is required from both side.

What BitBay is doing is removing the middleman and allowing Buyer & Seller to seal the deal however they want. If deal turns sour they'll have no one to blame but themselves.

Obvioiusly, If I'm selling something to new buyer I would want him to put money as "security deposit" and that totally depends on what we agree on. It can  be anything from $0-$50k+ BUT it's totally upto Buyer & Seller. There is no one to tell you what to do. Isn't that wonderful? Damn right it is.

Second example:

You're sitting LA and wants to rent an apartment in NYC. You contact the seller and he tells you 500 BAY "security deposit" is required. You both agree and you deposit 500 BAY in an escrow with clause that "if he doesn't hear from you within a week deal will be canceled and you'll get back your security deposit (money you put in escrow)" OR "you'll move in new apartment within a month and if you don't money will be released to him". So, in this case seller deposit "zero" and buyer deposits "500 Bay".

Both are happy with the deal and deal is secured.

Obviously, second example is something that'll happen in long term and first example is something you'll start seeing as soon as marketplace is launched. My point is that Bay has more potential than any of us realize and don't look at DD as something mandatory. No one would force you to use it and no one would be yelling at you if you don't use it. Seller & Buyer have total control over it.

Yes, very true indeed.

BitBay will change the world in few years. If this project is legit (so far it hasn't given me any reason to think otherwise). This can change how everything works in marketplace and real world. Once people are used to using smart contracts they will never go back to "paypal" or any other middleman for that matter including real life ones (realtors as an example).

Dude, I could waste some minutes of my time with an ignorant...but not with an angry ignorant.
Have a nice day.

Great explanation.

There will be so many trusted traders with great feedback in the marketplace that you wont feel it necessary to use any level of escrow with most of them.

But for the totally unknown person with -0- feedback to deal with another completely anonymous unknown, this DD escrow system does work perfectly.

And thats just the trade part of it. there are many uses for it that haven't even been dreamed up yet.

And you can still use your 3rd party escrow for 5%, just write that into your smart contract.

Cant wait to start playing with the new wallet.

Nothing is perfect and, the scenario you propose can certainly happen but, that's life. People need to be aware, to the best of their ability, what they are agreeing to and what they stand to loose. In many cases, escrow won't even be needed or, a token amount of coin can be used. It's all very dynamic and can be tailored differently for each deal if desired. The point is this, it's available if needed...
 
 

Then the problem of the buyer screwing the seller arises again, if the buyer puts what ever amount into escrow and then just disputes it the vendor loses all the coins. If the vendor requires such a high % of escrow then no one will use the Vendor.

Or am I missing something?

One last time for those who still don't seem to "get it":

Some of you here are operating under the totally INCORRECT assumption that "Double Escrow" means double the cost of the item. This is TOTALLY INCORRECT unless the parties want it to be that way. The two parties involved in the escrow agreement have to set, and agree upon, an escrow amount. They are NOT forced to use double the amount of the contract, they can choose the amount.

One more time:

The parties involved in the transaction agree upon the escrow amount. Period.

Don't worry about them, they are clueless and that's fine, the rest of us are not.

Don't waste your time on Trolls, it's what they want. Those of us that understand how it works and, why it will work, are confidently waiting.

How am I ignorant in paypal niche? I used the fucking "" for fuck sake yet you are still playing smart ass? Or are you that stupid?

It was just to point out that everybody is ignorant in some niche...as you are in the Paypal niche. Using the word "ignorance" in every sentence won't change the fact that you have somehow the illusion to not be an ignorant. Anyway, that's a discussion of another level.

Cut this crap already, don't give me this shit. That's not the point. I only said that as an example ...

"mimimi, paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products..."

It's so easy to play smart ass, yet still your ignorance have no limit...

If you're selling a doge tshirt and cant cover the 20$ for the deposit then you dont deserve to be in business..