Topic: BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg - page 317. (Read 542094 times)

Thanks for all the input today, dzimbeck, bankrunner, and others! This certainly helps me clear things up on my own end as well. Makes me want to buy more!
Glad to see you part of the community bankrunner! Hope you stick around    

I agree. Momentum is there since it is the first, unique and by a professional dev. team.

Setting a P&R Team don't mean we will should it out loud right away. But it will help to organize strong marketing guys (the wannabe's will leave). Such a process takes weeks.. Meaning if we can start shouting it out loud, we are not ready..

Setting up small campagnes are ideal to learn who and whom are truly an assets for the team!

Hi Inotanewbie

Here you go....

https://cryptrader.com/charts/bittrex/bay/btc

To change the exchange (e.g. for BTER, just replace "bittrex" with "bter" in the URL).

If you switch to the 4-hour chart which is a reasonably medium range view (2-3 weeks) you can see it double-peaked around 170-180. Then it corrected down to 105 and is currently sitting around 115. The rise was off 70-80 so the correction has traced back a good 70% at least which is a fair consolidation.

The momentum (see MACD, bottom graph) also indicates that the two corrections have completed (at least as far as the 4-hour chart is concerned).

Given all this, + reasonable order book demand + reasonable fundamentals (most things are still ahead of us than behind), I'd say there's reason for calling this the bottom for now.

But anything can happen. A big holder could get impatient and just dump everything back down to 70. I can't see it going below that for now though.

As I say - don't bet the house on it but I'm in the market for a few at this price.





One thing that does look very promising is the fact that the On Balance Volume has been trending up the whole time through the corrections and if anything seems to be moving slightly against the latter downward price movement.

I'll restrain myself from drawing too extreme a conclusion from that in a public post, but lets just say I wouldn't be selling at this price  



h.t.h. !

P.S. Just checked - I've had a buy order in at 115 for the last 3 hours and not a nibble. I didn't get 1 bay. They'r all going for 120 and above.

This is only to mitigate volatility. It certainly is not always changing though. The core concept is pretty much set. I see your point there but in a bear market a coin can lose 90% of its value and nobody can buy/sell on a market while thats happening. So this engine I'm designing will prevent loss of value in your coins so the markets can be happy.

After all, right now we have working smart contracts and decentralized markets with no fees and no arbiters. You would think its perfect. After all even BitHalo had smart contracts for an entire year. People are waiting for templates so its user friendly I think. Although we did have at least 20 deals on the markets go through.

Remember this system is decentralized. There is no reason votes can't be automated or augmented based on node performance instead of stakeholders.

or I could be completely wrong  but I wanted to throw these ideas out there

I've never coded so I see how the multiply 10 having the same effect as moving the decimal.

the next evolution in BTC is the decentralized market, faster transactions, and smart contracts. Bay will achieve all of these when complete. All the economic engineering of the coin can be left out, I think this is the problem with our current system and I believe people will gravitate to the decentralized market that has the freest flow of the coin that rides on it. I think all this attempt to engineer will be a turn off, especially if its complicated and always changing.

I understand your point. However floating point numbers aren't used in coins. Essentually "multiplying everyones balance by 10" is the same as adding a decimal place. Its simply from a math perspective, computers don't handle floating points correct and it will cause errors.
http://floating-point-gui.de/

The link above explains it simply. Of course ok, so it can be done without impacting the market... there is always a way. Even to make it "appear" to move to the right, you still must deal in integers not floats.

I see your concern, you are basically saying (what if voters are selfish) and thus they can increase supply by unfreezing? Well yes so the question of the frequency of voting comes in. Perhaps it can halve just like the block reward, perhaps we can allow the master key to message the client if variables like voting frequency need to be changed.

I think its more of a balancing act. What is the sweet spot where things will square off and the price can achieve a harmony. The idea that people can sell reserves in time locked sales may help act as a deterrent for selfish votes. Also with checklocktimeverify it should be possible to park your coins. This would mean that even on an interest increase those coins would stay parked until the locktime runs out. That would be a voluntary action. Coins that get sold from selfish votes might move into the hands of people who would vote deflation anyways.

The point is, the first iteration of this must exist. It certainly would decrease volatility though since no matter how you structure your argument, a dumpers coins will not be all available at once. Perhaps you could argue that overdeflating could cause this risk if the coin is inflated too early.

The theory is to have supply matching demand and there is some variables to consider.

Think of it this way, Bitcoin is supposed to be hailed as programmable money but they aren't taking advantage of their wonderful opportunity to programatically control their economy. No matter what, this is the next logical step for Bitcoin.

Hello mr graph & graphics i have seen you around and you know about your trading it is usually more pretty than this but hey free advice does not need the graphics to be awesome 

I know my user-name says i am not a newbie but when it comes to trades i am still kind of a newbie but wanting to learn, so could you tell me what graphs you are looking at and what is a good price to get in with a larger position?.#

I brought in November and then recently before the rise at 40-60 and averaged down  a lot basically even at 150, so could keep buying and drop it down slightly more.

Bottom 105 'ish'? 

I like the idea of transaction fees being a % ??0.18-.25?? rather than a set rate with a maximum fee of a set rate like 1.0

ok folks.

4 hour correction complete on Bittrex which has lasted a few days.

Last 1-hour chart didn't dip below 105. My buy orders are in.

you'll never get a decent % of people voting on reserve changes if its happening 1 or 2 times a day. essentially a vote FOR is a purchase OF on the market. You don't want to inflate your currency because there is no way to do that without hurting early arrivers. thats why the divisibility , the ability to move right of the decimal in noncoding terms, rewards the savers, something that is drastically lacking into days society and the driving appeal of all cryptos. the reserve and liquid tagging will imo act as a form of capitol controls which will cause distortions in a secondary market and could create more volatility when reserve coins are released by vote because of frontrun dumping of a vote favored to lower the reserve %. I appreciate this back and forth

lol interesting point... well now that my client will replace the standard Qt, doing updates/"forks" will be easier. That would be an update that could be easily done. However consider that Bitcoin is not in decimals. Computers dont understand floating points and decimals because its binary. Bitcoin is in integers one Bitcoin is 100000000. They say satoshis and then make decimals to make it prettier. In order to denominate more you need to inflate the currency to 1 trillion. But hell, thats not a big deal if we have reserve coins locked. Perhaps if that was ever needed one day it could be done easier without harming early arrivers.

Yes this is correct. A more technical elaboration is possible. Inputs are required to be tagged as either "reserve" or "liquid" miners will always calculate wether or not a % of a reserve input is spendable or how much of a liquid input must be tagged as reserve when spent. The concept is simple but making the accounting perfect is a little tricky.

If everyone sends to the voting address in request to deflate for example and we start at 100%, then we move to 99%. When an input needs to be spent, lets say its 100 coins then only 99 coins can be used liquid and 1 coin must lock. That coin is only available if the currency inflates back to 100.

We will allow for voting after certain intervals of blocks. So perhaps 1-2X per day. Thus in a month at most it can deflate 60%. After 99% we have to figure out what increment makes the most sense. Most like .01% so it would drop 99.99, 99.98 and so on. This effects all wallets.

Now consider this is nothing at all like a bank or federal reserve because the rates effect all users evenly. No custodial wallets and no unfair advantages. The beautiful part here is if you have deflated and you hold 100 coins where you used to hold 100,000, then you must have 99,900 in reserve. Your 100 coins will increase in exchange value of course so your purse might be worth more here. If anything it acts as a decentralized economy for the sake of eliminating volatility.

However some good arguments were made for allowing reserve sales. So I'm (considering) adding "time locked sale of reserves" which is a way to bypass the freeze in the condition that you lock the coins for X months. So if you buy reserves you must wait (lets say the minimum is 3) months. Upon receipt those coins are still reserve but (might) be liquid one day if some arent already and your hope is at the same value.

Those bond type sales might create a secondary market and allow investors to enter into the market without making the argument that the distribution was unfair for early adopters. Those reserves would probably get sold at a discount and its a balancing act to decide what the minimum lock should be.

Other techniques are still being discussed and nothing is set in stone yet. I know how I'm writing it in the source code but am still meditating on what a good debut will be. Right now, I'm working on templates to commercialize the markets better and make them more user friendly. So far it looks like there are no bugs and the testing has been very smooth. The only thing we are missing is a build that works on all Macs as we notice about 75% of them running. Perhaps we need to include some libraries or something its on my list of things to do.

1 billion coins is enough because you have eight zeros to the right of the decimal. The only issue is if widely accepted and used, you may have to lower the transaction fee  LOL

so it sounds like there is going to be a % of coins that will be locked and unspendable in the wallet unless voting changes this %? I assume these will be staked to get the interest. Will the % be the same for everyone regardless of the wallet size? there must then be a time element for further reduction in the size of the wallet. I think Voting will be to slow to meet market demands and will most likely overshoot or undershoot the optimum supply. I think the price will be better found in the market trading 24/7

Try to not think of this as a "peg" to the dollar(there is no specific number we are targeting). Think of this as simply adding freezing/unfreezing deflation/inflation. Liquidity is not reduced because its reduced for everyone proportionally. So the best way to see it is making supply match demand. If the demand goes down, the supply can be voted on to decrease via deflation. If the demand goes up, then reserves can be made liquid. It happens in increments so no need to fear any crash. In theory, we can grow the price against the dollar via voting. The only thing that is happening here is volatility is dramatically being reduced. If the dollar dies, this coin still exists. Remember only its supply was matching the demand so it could survive any bear market condition. The dream situation is when 1 billion isnt enough coins to match demand. But the theory is, we grow towards that.

The only certainty going forward is volatility in all currencies whether they are crypto or government fiat. I say let the markets determine value and Lets build Bay into one of those markets. the only reason why the fiats look somewhat stable is because of the currency manipulation behind the scenes, interest rate swaps, currency swaps, etc.. When these derivatives break the currencies will go into algo flash crashes as liquidity disappears, we have already seen this happen in the US 10y which is unheard of. There will be more stability in the cryptos because their supply cannot be drastically changed. We are one BANK RUN away from seeing BTC go back to $1,000+ because of it's transferability and limited nature. Then people will gravitate to attached markets to facilitate new trade connections that will be destroyed when the banking system fails. we need not fight the FED, just ignore them and use something outside their control.

You make some very valid points. I love the idea of a peg because it will help stabilize and attract commerce. The majority of bitcoin merchants immediately switch bitcoin purchases to fiat because they can't afford to lose money due to the volatility of bitcoins - granted if it wasn't for Mt. Gox scandal, BTC charts might have shown a much more stabile growth pattern.
I too have brought up the idea of something else rather than USD. It's definitely a worthy debate! Cheers!

pegging to RMB wouldn't be good ether imo because we don't know if it too will be hyper inflated and replaced with a new currency. Pegging to government fiat is a bad idea. if there is going to be a peg, I would suggest using one of the metals because of its steady supply and no risk of huge inflation, just like the supply of bay. how will the holders of bay decide to raise or lower the rolling peg that will affect the spendibility of Bay? This comes across as a currency control that could be detrimental to the project as well. I love the idea of the decentralized market and that's why I'm invested in this project. the only thing that concerns me at this point is the attempt to peg the value and limit spendibility. these are the same anti free market concepts that the central banks are engaged in that will lead to the rejection of their currencies. I think there can be hedging products that are creating with smart contracts sold on a market within bay that involve 2 opposing bets but a system wide valuation peg looks very messy if and when it changes. If we start bay with a peg to USD, how difficult will it be to change that once the dollar goes to shit? my fear is that a peg designed to stabilize the coin will backfire if pegged to extremely volatile shit paper

more or less the peg will be a rolling peg, which will be determine by us the holders of bitbay weather we want to increase the peg value or decrease the peg value . but the trade off will be less bitbay you can spend from your wallet when the peg is increase and more bitbay that are spendable when the peg is decreased. I brought up the historical usd decline and suggested that it be peg to cny instead but the user on this forum are more accustom to using the usd to determine a value on something (which i understand).