Jessy, I actually read your entire post carefully, and although I have no interest in the adult entertainment industry (don't condemn it, just not my thing), I got a lot out of your (and Warren's) ideas. "Moat" is an important concept; it's essentially why my wife and I had to abandon an educational app that we had put 2 months of part-time work into -- a big player stepped in easily before I got it off the ground since the barriers to entry were low. As I'm thinking about future opportunities, this concept of moat needs to be burned into my mind lest I waste another 2 months of work. Thanks for the reminder.
That said, with new technologies, there's always a chance an upstart will end up winning big, since being first in counts for a lot. The barriers to becoming an online BTC exchange were relatively low (some would say too low, but not me). But look at how successful MtGox was prior to the hack, just because they were one of the first ones in. A savvy businessman could have taken all the cash flowing in and created a rock solid site and then been THE online exchange to beat in the coming years. I suspect it will be the same for Bitcoins and porn.
Topic: Bitcams - page 7. (Read 37489 times)
It is a great dream. Those without fully understanding the benefits of being a smaller start up, then working towards larger / broad based goals and being able to adapt to the necessary changes that would go into being a larger / broad based site. Jessy isn't wrong in his thinking, his thinking I do not believe applies to this project.
There's a difference between someone with a dream and someone with a dream and a means to complete it. He wants everyone else to complete this project. He has no technical skills, he has no content lined up, he has no initial capital (not everyone will work for free) and he has no specific goals and outlines of what needs to be done. I'm sure someone with far more resources will take an idea like this and make it happen, but that's because they have the content, skills, and knowledge to do it.
Also, Jessy Kang is a female. Specifically, she's a female dom. Jessy is a female name, Jesse is the the androgynous version.
It is a great dream. Those without fully understanding the benefits of being a smaller start up, then working towards larger / broad based goals and being able to adapt to the necessary changes that would go into being a larger / broad based site. Jessy isn't wrong in his thinking, his thinking I do not believe applies to this project.
Jessy essentially put the final nail in this project's coffin. Anyone reading this thread will read that post, understand the risks better, and walk away. No professional developer in their right mind would invest their time in a, highly possible, disaster. That and the simple fact that Vegetta essentially ignored Jessy's post and asked for a 'TL;DR' version should be warning enough for any potential developer.
I'm sure it'll happen, but I doubt this is it. There are hundreds of millions of people world-wide that watch porn online and pay with cash. You are talking about using Bitcoins for income (which has shown to be extremely volatile) and your maximum customer size is ~100,000 at best. How can you plan on cornering 10% of the adult industry (which is a multi-billion dollar industry) if your maximum customer size is well under 1%? I think you have a good idea, but everyone has those. You are expecting people to put in a ton of work for you and you don't even have the women locked in, nor do you have any sort of hosting facility locked in. You no upfront capital to pay for marketing, hosting, etc.
It's like going to EA, Ubisoft, Activision and saying you have an incredible game idea that will sell millions. You want to oversee the project. You have nothing physical to show them, no story boards, no game design plan, no outline, just an idea in your brain. You know what they will do? They will politely ask you to leave and not contact them again. I have a background in game design and just because you have an idea doesn't mean a damn thing unless you have a prototype to show.
I'm sorry, but this idea, in its current state, is a pipe dream.
I'm sure it'll happen, but I doubt this is it. There are hundreds of millions of people world-wide that watch porn online and pay with cash. You are talking about using Bitcoins for income (which has shown to be extremely volatile) and your maximum customer size is ~100,000 at best. How can you plan on cornering 10% of the adult industry (which is a multi-billion dollar industry) if your maximum customer size is well under 1%? I think you have a good idea, but everyone has those. You are expecting people to put in a ton of work for you and you don't even have the women locked in, nor do you have any sort of hosting facility locked in. You no upfront capital to pay for marketing, hosting, etc.
It's like going to EA, Ubisoft, Activision and saying you have an incredible game idea that will sell millions. You want to oversee the project. You have nothing physical to show them, no story boards, no game design plan, no outline, just an idea in your brain. You know what they will do? They will politely ask you to leave and not contact them again. I have a background in game design and just because you have an idea doesn't mean a damn thing unless you have a prototype to show.
I'm sorry, but this idea, in its current state, is a pipe dream.
LOL;
nice advice from one who had experience with Pornsites.
By the way, do you know if these TGP gallery Sites make any Money?
and how could i setup one/ how des it work to get content and Payment.
Is it just liek that, i write an email and ask or what? :-)
For example i have a good domain and on Server,
to host on it Porn ads (promotion Galleries)
nice advice from one who had experience with Pornsites.
By the way, do you know if these TGP gallery Sites make any Money?
and how could i setup one/ how des it work to get content and Payment.
Is it just liek that, i write an email and ask or what? :-)
For example i have a good domain and on Server,
to host on it Porn ads (promotion Galleries)
Can you give me some specifics of what you're after? Please keep it short and direct, no more 2 page essays, you sound highly intelligent, but you need to be able to sell your ideas a bit better. What do you have to offer to our team?
Wait- you read all that, and the first that came to mind was "yup, she wants what I got- but I'm going to play hard to get..."?
Wow
I was offering some friendly professional advice- won't happen again.
I'm off to start a hosting company, if I can corner just 10% of the market I'll be set for life...
Can you give me some specifics of what you're after? Please keep it short and direct, no more 2 page essays, you sound highly intelligent, but you need to be able to sell your ideas a bit better. What do you have to offer to our team?
Wait- you read all that, and the first that came to mind was "yup, she wants what I got- but I'm going to play hard to get..."?
Wow
I was offering some friendly professional advice- won't happen again.
I'm off to start a hosting company, if I can corner just 10% of the market I'll be set for life...
Okay, well it's an Adult business thread so I'm actually qualified to offer an opinion.
I used to be the office manager at an Internet porn company before I started my own business. I've worked the back office in Adult businesses for about a decade. During that time, the following two scenarios occur with alarming regularity:
1. People pay money for pornographic photos/videos, so videographers and photographers think they can start a successful porn site.
2. People look at Porn sites that are on servers, so programmers/network admins think they can start a successful porn site.
This is somewhat akin to- I can fix cars, or design nice cars, therefor I should open a car dealership.
The problem is both 1 and 2 are cheap to hire and don't directly make you money. Traffic (well, sales) makes you money. The people that can send high conversion traffic have large, established high-payout sites to promote. Even if you get the dregs- they will require a commission that eats up most of your profit margin. Your overhead is a much higher percentage than that of huge legacy sites who have long since paid of capital expenditures, plus have a fair amount of non-affiliate traffic coming in.
Most people are horrified by the percentage cam providers take- but there are MANY options to choose from, and some ladies do work independently over Skype and YIM. They pay that percentage because the cam providers send a massive amount of traffic so their gross is inevitably higher than if they go it alone. It's no different from renting a Kiosk at the mall.
It's a sound business decision, but leaves a poor taste in customers mouths who want the girl to get more of the money. She always has that option, there are cam hosts of many different tiers, but you get what you pay for. Traffic- and more specifically conversion, is king. The ladies don't need a server or processor- those are a dime a dozen- they need a larger number of potentially paying customers. Bitcoin does not have that- it sends pitifully little traffic.
This is what is most important in an Adult site- it IS the business, but people without Adult industry experience who think porn is easy, relegate it to last place "Oh I'll hire someone" "Oh I can do Search Engine Optimization". Well so can everyone else- and with Adult margins they can hire the best of the best.
First thing you need to do if you are considering an Adult Internet business is rearrange the list of needed skills- first is marketing, second is talent management.
So if you are going to invest sweat equity- the best place to do it is marketing, as it is by far the most costly service to purchase- if you can even find someone decent that won't bankrupt you (which is unlikely). Investing the sweat equity of an inexpensive, easy to source skill set is not helpful.
The technical hurdles are minor. I don't do it, but I've hired people to setup Red/Wowza servers with different billing structures- it's nothing fancy. It's a few weeks of coding then you don't need programmers anymore. Same with designers. There is no long term, full-time position for either of them so why give them a share? The more labor you trim, the higher affiliate payouts you can afford, the more traffic you will get- so you have to run very, very lean.
With any new business venture, you want to determine what your USP is- your Unique Selling Proposition. In the case of "Bitcams" (I do like the name) that is accepting Bitcoins. That is the sole edge over the competition. They have far larger sites, more ladies, lower rates, more traffic- but you have Bitcoin. The problem with this is the lack of what Warren Buffet refers to as a moat. It is an exceedingly low barrier to entry for competitors. So after a month or two, if things are slowly getting somewhere- they take a look at your Alexa rank, see you are doing okay- they start taking Bitcoin also and undercut you with all of their other advantages- long before you've paid off even a fraction of your initial investment. No moat.
I do Just-in-Time, Pull based staffing- it's part of my "moat" as it is horrifically difficult to implement in an Adult business. When you start, you will require several ladies, working several shifts, willing to sit in front of a camera and be abused all day long while they try and lure guys into paychat. They will not do this for free (really) and it will take you at least six months even with an aggressive affiliate program before you can even approach covering costs let alone earning a profit.
So you will need to pay salary- and a generous one, because girls decent looking enough to build your brand, don't work cheap. Not when there are so many high traffic cam positions open. No, not a single one will sign on based on a promise of big bucks down the line- pretty girls hear big plans from big talkers all day long. Even if you get one to say yet- her boyfriend needs beer money and he's not going to get it if she's on your site rather than an established high traffic site. So you will need a massive amount of capital for payroll.
Adult HR management is a nightmare. It's my personal daily nightmare. Attractive women are not used to being told what to do, or being held to any sort of reasonable standard. Every lady who starts to work at my establishment has been able to show up late, not show up at all, hand in poor quality work, for their entire adult lives and get a pass. Managing them to the point where their presence does not do more harm to the brand than good is incredibly difficult. You are basically running a McDonalds full of entitled hot chicks who are all too good to work the fry machine or take orders.
If you permit offshore models to work the cam, it is difficult to get 2257 compliant ID. She may just give you her older sisters ID, you really have no way of knowing. Big cam sites work with overseas "houses" to manage some of this, but it is still a significant risk. We don't have to go into what the jail time would be even for a single underage model.
So IMHO a cam site, without a USP, high startup costs, and a low barrier for entry is not a great idea.
That being said, there are a few ways one could use cryptocurrency (Bitcoin or it's successor) quite effectively for an Adult startup, with a wide moat and significantly lower startup costs. Which if anyone is interested I can go into- but this post is already insanely long winded
and wishful thinking will probably win out over logic and professional counsel anyway .
I used to be the office manager at an Internet porn company before I started my own business. I've worked the back office in Adult businesses for about a decade. During that time, the following two scenarios occur with alarming regularity:
1. People pay money for pornographic photos/videos, so videographers and photographers think they can start a successful porn site.
2. People look at Porn sites that are on servers, so programmers/network admins think they can start a successful porn site.
This is somewhat akin to- I can fix cars, or design nice cars, therefor I should open a car dealership.
The problem is both 1 and 2 are cheap to hire and don't directly make you money. Traffic (well, sales) makes you money. The people that can send high conversion traffic have large, established high-payout sites to promote. Even if you get the dregs- they will require a commission that eats up most of your profit margin. Your overhead is a much higher percentage than that of huge legacy sites who have long since paid of capital expenditures, plus have a fair amount of non-affiliate traffic coming in.
Most people are horrified by the percentage cam providers take- but there are MANY options to choose from, and some ladies do work independently over Skype and YIM. They pay that percentage because the cam providers send a massive amount of traffic so their gross is inevitably higher than if they go it alone. It's no different from renting a Kiosk at the mall.
It's a sound business decision, but leaves a poor taste in customers mouths who want the girl to get more of the money. She always has that option, there are cam hosts of many different tiers, but you get what you pay for. Traffic- and more specifically conversion, is king. The ladies don't need a server or processor- those are a dime a dozen- they need a larger number of potentially paying customers. Bitcoin does not have that- it sends pitifully little traffic.
This is what is most important in an Adult site- it IS the business, but people without Adult industry experience who think porn is easy, relegate it to last place "Oh I'll hire someone" "Oh I can do Search Engine Optimization". Well so can everyone else- and with Adult margins they can hire the best of the best.
First thing you need to do if you are considering an Adult Internet business is rearrange the list of needed skills- first is marketing, second is talent management.
So if you are going to invest sweat equity- the best place to do it is marketing, as it is by far the most costly service to purchase- if you can even find someone decent that won't bankrupt you (which is unlikely). Investing the sweat equity of an inexpensive, easy to source skill set is not helpful.
The technical hurdles are minor. I don't do it, but I've hired people to setup Red/Wowza servers with different billing structures- it's nothing fancy. It's a few weeks of coding then you don't need programmers anymore. Same with designers. There is no long term, full-time position for either of them so why give them a share? The more labor you trim, the higher affiliate payouts you can afford, the more traffic you will get- so you have to run very, very lean.
With any new business venture, you want to determine what your USP is- your Unique Selling Proposition. In the case of "Bitcams" (I do like the name) that is accepting Bitcoins. That is the sole edge over the competition. They have far larger sites, more ladies, lower rates, more traffic- but you have Bitcoin. The problem with this is the lack of what Warren Buffet refers to as a moat. It is an exceedingly low barrier to entry for competitors. So after a month or two, if things are slowly getting somewhere- they take a look at your Alexa rank, see you are doing okay- they start taking Bitcoin also and undercut you with all of their other advantages- long before you've paid off even a fraction of your initial investment. No moat.
I do Just-in-Time, Pull based staffing- it's part of my "moat" as it is horrifically difficult to implement in an Adult business. When you start, you will require several ladies, working several shifts, willing to sit in front of a camera and be abused all day long while they try and lure guys into paychat. They will not do this for free (really) and it will take you at least six months even with an aggressive affiliate program before you can even approach covering costs let alone earning a profit.
So you will need to pay salary- and a generous one, because girls decent looking enough to build your brand, don't work cheap. Not when there are so many high traffic cam positions open. No, not a single one will sign on based on a promise of big bucks down the line- pretty girls hear big plans from big talkers all day long. Even if you get one to say yet- her boyfriend needs beer money and he's not going to get it if she's on your site rather than an established high traffic site. So you will need a massive amount of capital for payroll.
Adult HR management is a nightmare. It's my personal daily nightmare. Attractive women are not used to being told what to do, or being held to any sort of reasonable standard. Every lady who starts to work at my establishment has been able to show up late, not show up at all, hand in poor quality work, for their entire adult lives and get a pass. Managing them to the point where their presence does not do more harm to the brand than good is incredibly difficult. You are basically running a McDonalds full of entitled hot chicks who are all too good to work the fry machine or take orders.
If you permit offshore models to work the cam, it is difficult to get 2257 compliant ID. She may just give you her older sisters ID, you really have no way of knowing. Big cam sites work with overseas "houses" to manage some of this, but it is still a significant risk. We don't have to go into what the jail time would be even for a single underage model.
So IMHO a cam site, without a USP, high startup costs, and a low barrier for entry is not a great idea.
That being said, there are a few ways one could use cryptocurrency (Bitcoin or it's successor) quite effectively for an Adult startup, with a wide moat and significantly lower startup costs. Which if anyone is interested I can go into- but this post is already insanely long winded
and wishful thinking will probably win out over logic and professional counsel anyway .It does not work that way.
Don't take offense, but I would suggest hiring someone with Adult business management and marketing experience.
I disagree, but that is only based on experience and ease of the ladies these days who enjoy exposing themselves for free. I have dealt with the personal cam from home ladies, while on a far less basis than the ladies who just take nude pictures of themselves for upload for free, I have found as long as their pay day is there, I have never experienced one that cares where the money has come from. But maybe you are making reference to some legal things and not so much just that gap?Don't take offense, but I would suggest hiring someone with Adult business management and marketing experience.
The getting them to understand they will be accepting non-USD initially from the consumer, but of course they will get cash, is probably what would be the smallest part of this project, they honestly would just need to see that first real paycheck to get over that hump.
showusyourbits.com
Was going to buy and do something fun with it, but someone has had that one. Made me giggle.
I can get the girls, I think they would love this compared to the crap they have to deal with now. Just has to be explained to them properly.
It does not work that way.
Don't take offense, but I would suggest hiring someone with Adult business management and marketing experience.
I want to apply here for the position as application developer.
I have great knowledge of PHP/MySQL/HTML/CSS, but I dont know Perl (But I would learn it if Really required), and only have some vague Ideas how CGI works. However, I will never ever code ActiveX, and ASP.
I have great knowledge of PHP/MySQL/HTML/CSS, but I dont know Perl (But I would learn it if Really required), and only have some vague Ideas how CGI works. However, I will never ever code ActiveX, and ASP.
pinkbits.com
showusyourbits.com
... yeah, the bit jokes could go on for a while.
Looking forward to working with everyone whos interested in this project. Don't be scared. And if your not into the porn industry, don't worry about it. Let us handle that. This environment will be very clean, and professional, and I will not ask any of the people working on this to participate in the porn related promos/scouting/ or anything to do with sex. Just had to get that out of the way 1st and foremost. 
What? That looks like the best part of the project!
Seriously, I think this has a great potential. I am a programmer but not a web programmer. If I was I would love to join your team.
Im more of a C and embedded programmer (I studied electronic engineering). I have experience in python, Vala and some Java also. I dont have proffessional experience in web development. All I have done in the web is put up a Drupal blog: http://www.errorespuntuales.es/ The design is mine and Im very proud of it since its not "my thing" (the logo was not my decission).
Vegetta, I wish you well with this. I've got my plate full so I'm afraid I can't contribute (plus I have no idea what an adult site should look like these days). But you just may be one of the torch bearers for bringing bitcoin to the masses. Good luck!
Well, if you ever need any fit, male models, look me up. Seriously.
Looking forward to working with everyone whos interested in this project. Don't be scared. And if your not into the porn industry, don't worry about it. Let us handle that. This environment will be very clean, and professional, and I will not ask any of the people working on this to participate in the porn related promos/scouting/ or anything to do with sex. Just had to get that out of the way 1st and foremost.
What? That looks like the best part of the project!
Seriously, I think this has a great potential. I am a programmer but not a web programmer. If I was I would love to join your team.
Looking forward to working with everyone whos interested in this project. Don't be scared. And if your not into the porn industry, don't worry about it. Let us handle that. This environment will be very clean, and professional, and I will not ask any of the people working on this to participate in the porn related promos/scouting/ or anything to do with sex. Just had to get that out of the way 1st and foremost.
What? That looks like the best part of the project!
Seriously, I think this has a great potential. I am a programmer but not a web programmer. If I was I would love to join your team.
Everyone on the team will be QA, so please no PM's about being a QA , (Quality Assurance, aka Bug Testing.)
My plan was making an ewallet, the customer signs up with an email address and password. They get a designated wallet with a bitcoin address that they send to (us), and then they pay in "Credits". We actually don't even need to pay the girls in bitcoins if we don't want to, we can just pay them in cash at the end of their work day, they convert the credits to $$$. Obviously we would need a starting bankroll for that so at the start that might not be possible. But thats where I wana go eventually. The credit's system (similar to what you see at live jasmine) might be the best approach, esp if these girls don't even know what bitcoins are lol.
Credits was already something I kind of had in mind, an ewallet very secure system, even maybe using some cash to get a trusted third party security system put in that the public already knows. That line of thinking is good. Did not see your other sites, you do good work, I do hope I get spare time. I guess though is there anything you were having in mind logo or avatar wise? Creative and graphic stuff I am able to do at odd hours so toss out anything you already had brainstormed and I could think on that (PM if you don't want to put this out there)
. I will P.M you, when I have a team ready we will have a meeting via ooovooo or skype, so we can get priorities straightened, and make everything official. Do you have any design work you can show me? And thank you bro, you are the first person that has said that in these forums. I have been trying to tell people about my work, and sometimes with all the spam that goes around on the internet, people are so quick to dismiss it. I am one of those people that wishes spam would just go away, but its one of those necessary evils... Just have to fight through it, and if your a good person people will see it.
Looking forward to working with everyone whos interested in this project. Don't be scared. And if your not into the porn industry, don't worry about it. Let us handle that. This environment will be very clean, and professional, and I will not ask any of the people working on this to participate in the porn related promos/scouting/ or anything to do with sex. Just had to get that out of the way 1st and foremost.
My plan was making an ewallet, the customer signs up with an email address and password. They get a designated wallet with a bitcoin address that they send to (us), and then they pay in "Credits". We actually don't even need to pay the girls in bitcoins if we don't want to, we can just pay them in cash at the end of their work day, they convert the credits to $$$. Obviously we would need a starting bankroll for that so at the start that might not be possible. But thats where I wana go eventually. The credit's system (similar to what you see at live jasmine) might be the best approach, esp if these girls don't even know what bitcoins are lol.
Credits was already something I kind of had in mind, an ewallet very secure system, even maybe using some cash to get a trusted third party security system put in that the public already knows. That line of thinking is good. Did not see your other sites, you do good work, I do hope I get spare time. I guess though is there anything you were having in mind logo or avatar wise? Creative and graphic stuff I am able to do at odd hours so toss out anything you already had brainstormed and I could think on that (PM if you don't want to put this out there)
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