[BitCentury] Metabank 120Gh 65nm Pre-Order Proxy [CLOSED] - page 11.

senseless

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Quote from: Foofighter on June 11, 2013, 02:57:48 PM

Hello,

I heard rumors that metabank has unpaid orders from Batch 1 and they are selling these unpaid orders shortly. Could you talk to them if thats true and inform us if we could get another device from Batch 1?

Best regards
Foofighter

The unpaid orders in question have a week to pay and that week is not up yet. If orders open up again we do plan to continue offering this proxy service for as long as batch 1 units are available.

-Tom

Foofighter

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Hello,

I heard rumors that metabank has unpaid orders from Batch 1 and they are selling these unpaid orders shortly. Could you talk to them if thats true and inform us if we could get another device from Batch 1?

Best regards
Foofighter

digitalmagus

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Contract Update#3: We met with our lawyers today, some changes were discussed. They will work on them tomorrow and we will try to provide a final version for release the day after, so this would be Wednesday; assuming of course, nothing else needs to be altered after they are done with it, but I can say it is almost in a final state at this point as it is.
Cheers,
Luis

digitalmagus

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Hi guys,
Contract Update#2:We've received the final version from our lawyers first thing this morning, but we need some time to review it, and I'm pretty sure at minimum a few amendments will be required. We are meeting with them later today to discuss changes. We'll provide updates as they become available.
Hope everyone had a great weekend!
Luis

senseless

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Quote from: Foofighter on June 09, 2013, 03:46:12 PM

Hi,

thanks for the great service!

I just red that metabank are already planning another Batch, are the rumors right -will you provide Info at the given time and also do this service for future Batches?

regards

I can't really make any comments at this time as to batch 2. There are to many unknown variables at this time. The chips might not even work the first time (batch 2 chips may actually become batch 1 chips if a re-design is necessary). The next 2-3 weeks will determine the course of things to come when the chips themselves are proven or not.

Foofighter

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Hi,

thanks for the great service!

I just red that metabank are already planning another Batch, are the rumors right -will you provide Info at the given time and also do this service for future Batches?

regards

senseless

hero member

Activity: 1118

Merit: 541

Good day,

Pre-orders for metabank batch 1 devices are now COMPLETE. As such we will no longer be accepting additional orders at this time.

I would like to thank everyone for their faith in us as we carry this forward. The total number of devices sold tallied 57 for a total hash rate of 6.84Th/s. We were able to confirm today that all orders have been secured. If you have orders placed with us (with the exception of one who has already been notified), your order has been secured with metabank and you will receive your device.

We will have exciting news in the coming weeks. We will convey additional information as it becomes available.

If anyone has any questions or concerns please feel free to ask here or contact us directly.

Regards,
Tom sensel

GodfatherBond

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Thumbs up for you even any kind of contract as in this business it seems that typical sales goes:
-send me btc
-wait... wait... wait... silence

I hope to get my wire fast enough through so I can order one!

digitalmagus

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Quote from: RoboCoder on June 09, 2013, 01:00:33 AM

Could you please clarify something for me? I am in the US, if i were to order through you and receive a number of these devices and they turn out to have a problem or be defective, will i have any recourse to get them replaced?
Even if it is to send it back to you and pay a fee for the swap?
Thanks!

Hi RoboCoder,
You ask a good question. We are internally discussing if and how this, or something of the sort might work. We are trying to finalize a customer contract so this and some of the other details mentioned earlier today may require some editing of our contract. Once we have come to a decision we'll announce the details. We'll get back to you as soon as we are able.
Thanks,
Luis

RoboCoder

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Could you please clarify something for me? I am in the US, if i were to order through you and receive a number of these devices and they turn out to have a problem or be defective, will i have any recourse to get them replaced?

Even if it is to send it back to you and pay a fee for the swap?

Thanks!

senseless

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Activity: 1118

Merit: 541

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 10:54:06 PM

Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2013, 10:51:28 PM

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 10:40:06 PM

Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2013, 10:34:28 PM

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 10:07:37 PM

Which is why I was failing at conveying that you can't add liability limitations into a sales contract, for a sale Cheesy

If I was him I'd still be worried even if he had the most perfect agent contract. Anyone can sue for anything and cause you major problems for years, even if there are no obvious grounds. Like the Jackson family suing the tour promotion company for billions for the alleged wrongdoings of the family doctor ^_^

Not to be rude, but I just want to clarify this. So you are stating that the sale of a service; is not a sale?

It's evident to anyone who looks that we're acting as agent and the contract of sale is the contract of sale for our agent service; not a contract of sale for the device. Unless you're suggesting that DHL and Fedex have no taxable income (as they do not "sell" anything), then selling a service is still a sale.

I'm not sure where you've got that from to translate to what I was trying to say, other than that's not what I'm saying. Unless you quoted the wrong post?

This group buy was trying to design a sales of goods contract to not be a sale of goods by putting exclusion clauses in, which is impossible.

If you would like to back peddle and argue about the definition of words, We'll have to go with simple questions in a simple format:

If you sell a service is it a sale, yes or no?

If you add a contract to the sale of a service, it is a sales contract, yes or no?

Yes. Yes, but not in this case.

The contract was specifically geared towards delivering a physical product in return for a payment.

What you're seeing is preliminary version which was meant to convey the general attitude of the contract of service. The contract states the liability we have with relation to delivery of your package and with the relation of the seller making said product available for us to collect on the user's behalf. As it is known and as you say yourself, if selling a service is a sale, this is a sales contract stating liabilities of the service. If you ask DHL (or any courier) to pick up a package, scheduling the pick up, but the person you asked them to pick up a product from doesn't (or wont/cant) give it to them, it's not their liability. The contract in question is simply reiterating these points.

stripykitteh

legendary

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Not trying to complicate the issue here; I want to help you guys succeed. My advice is worth what you've paid for it. Wink

Also bear in mind that at law school we get taught to find problems, not always how to solve them. Roll Eyes

The trouble element I see is that at the end of the contract the principal ends up being the owner of the hardware. At some point during the contract metabank.ru must own the hardware (even though they do not have privity to the contract), the question is does BitCentury become the owner at some point before the end of the contract? I think the answer to that is probably yes (invoices etc would be in BitCentury's name, not the name of the principal), in which case it gets harder to deny that you are not performing a sale of goods contract.

Hopefully your lawyer will either spot the flaw in my argument or be able to amend the contract to protect you, but like Dogie says you want to be careful that you don't end up with something that ends up being interpreted as a contract of sale of goods.

I last studied contract law 3 years ago, my analysis might be off. Sorry if bringing this up ends up being a waste of your time.

dogie

legendary

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Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2013, 10:51:28 PM

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 10:40:06 PM

Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2013, 10:34:28 PM

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 10:07:37 PM

Which is why I was failing at conveying that you can't add liability limitations into a sales contract, for a sale Cheesy

If I was him I'd still be worried even if he had the most perfect agent contract. Anyone can sue for anything and cause you major problems for years, even if there are no obvious grounds. Like the Jackson family suing the tour promotion company for billions for the alleged wrongdoings of the family doctor ^_^

Not to be rude, but I just want to clarify this. So you are stating that the sale of a service; is not a sale?

It's evident to anyone who looks that we're acting as agent and the contract of sale is the contract of sale for our agent service; not a contract of sale for the device. Unless you're suggesting that DHL and Fedex have no taxable income (as they do not "sell" anything), then selling a service is still a sale.

I'm not sure where you've got that from to translate to what I was trying to say, other than that's not what I'm saying. Unless you quoted the wrong post?

This group buy was trying to design a sales of goods contract to not be a sale of goods by putting exclusion clauses in, which is impossible.

If you would like to back peddle and argue about the definition of words, We'll have to go with simple questions in a simple format:

If you sell a service is it a sale, yes or no?

If you add a contract to the sale of a service, it is a sales contract, yes or no?

Yes. Yes, but not in this case.

The contract was specifically geared towards delivering a physical product in return for a payment.

senseless

hero member

Activity: 1118

Merit: 541

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 10:40:06 PM

Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2013, 10:34:28 PM

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 10:07:37 PM

Which is why I was failing at conveying that you can't add liability limitations into a sales contract, for a sale Cheesy

If I was him I'd still be worried even if he had the most perfect agent contract. Anyone can sue for anything and cause you major problems for years, even if there are no obvious grounds. Like the Jackson family suing the tour promotion company for billions for the alleged wrongdoings of the family doctor ^_^

Not to be rude, but I just want to clarify this. So you are stating that the sale of a service; is not a sale?

It's evident to anyone who looks that we're acting as agent and the contract of sale is the contract of sale for our agent service; not a contract of sale for the device. Unless you're suggesting that DHL and Fedex have no taxable income (as they do not "sell" anything), then selling a service is still a sale.

I'm not sure where you've got that from to translate to what I was trying to say, other than that's not what I'm saying. Unless you quoted the wrong post?

This group buy was trying to design a sales of goods contract to not be a sale of goods by putting exclusion clauses in, which is impossible.

It's apparent that you would like to back peddle and argue about the definition of words, We'll have to go with simple questions in a simple format:

If you sell a service is it a sale, yes or no?

If you add a contract to the sale of a service, it is a sales contract, yes or no?

dogie

legendary

Activity: 1666

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dogiecoin.com

Quote from: senseless on June 08, 2013, 10:34:28 PM

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 10:07:37 PM

Which is why I was failing at conveying that you can't add liability limitations into a sales contract, for a sale Cheesy

If I was him I'd still be worried even if he had the most perfect agent contract. Anyone can sue for anything and cause you major problems for years, even if there are no obvious grounds. Like the Jackson family suing the tour promotion company for billions for the alleged wrongdoings of the family doctor ^_^

Not to be rude, but I just want to clarify this. So you are stating that the sale of a service; is not a sale?

It's evident to anyone who looks that we're acting as agent and the contract of sale is the contract of sale for our agent service; not a contract of sale for the device. Unless you're suggesting that DHL and Fedex have no taxable income (as they do not "sell" anything), then selling a service is still a sale.

I'm not sure where you've got that from to translate to what I was trying to say, other than that's not what I'm saying. Unless you quoted the wrong post?

This group buy was trying to design a sales of goods contract to not be a sale of goods by putting exclusion clauses in, which is impossible.

senseless

hero member

Activity: 1118

Merit: 541

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 10:07:37 PM

Which is why I was failing at conveying that you can't add liability limitations into a sales contract, for a sale Cheesy

If I was him I'd still be worried even if he had the most perfect agent contract. Anyone can sue for anything and cause you major problems for years, even if there are no obvious grounds. Like the Jackson family suing the tour promotion company for billions for the alleged wrongdoings of the family doctor ^_^

Not to be rude, but I just want to clarify this. So you are stating that the sale of a service; is not a sale?

It's evident to anyone who looks that we're acting as agent and the contract of sale is the contract of sale for our agent service; not a contract of sale for the device. Unless you're suggesting that DHL and Fedex have no taxable income (as they do not "sell" anything), then selling a service is still a sale.

stripykitteh

legendary

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Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 10:07:37 PM

Quote from: stripykitteh on June 08, 2013, 09:40:23 PM

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 08:56:45 PM

You are offering a product, and you have a supplier. If your supplier scams you, its your responsibility. The buyers all bought a product from YOU, if YOU can't provide it then you have to refund them in full. Seriously, this entire thing is a disaster waiting to happen. If they turn out to be a scam, you'll be accountable for every penny.

Dogie, there's nothing in contract law disallowing principal-agent relationships. For the sake of clarity though that should be an express term of the contract. As long as the principal goes into it with their eyes open I can't see any problem. If BitCentury masqueraded as a seller and then later claimed only to be an agent when things went pear-shaped, THAT would be a problem and it would be "see you in court" time.

Simply, this is not a sales contract and it should be amended to make that clear.

Which is why I was failing at conveying that you can't add liability limitations into a sales contract, for a sale Cheesy

If I was him I'd still be worried even if he had the most perfect agent contract. Anyone can sue for anything and cause you major problems for years, even if there are no obvious grounds. Like the Jackson family suing the tour promotion company for billions for the alleged wrongdoings of the family doctor ^_^

Ok, sorry, sounds like we are saying the same thing in different ways.

dogie

legendary

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Quote from: stripykitteh on June 08, 2013, 09:40:23 PM

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 08:56:45 PM

You are offering a product, and you have a supplier. If your supplier scams you, its your responsibility. The buyers all bought a product from YOU, if YOU can't provide it then you have to refund them in full. Seriously, this entire thing is a disaster waiting to happen. If they turn out to be a scam, you'll be accountable for every penny.

Dogie, there's nothing in contract law disallowing principal-agent relationships. For the sake of clarity though that should be an express term of the contract. As long as the principal goes into it with their eyes open I can't see any problem. If BitCentury masqueraded as a seller and then later claimed only to be an agent when things went pear-shaped, THAT would be a problem and it would be "see you in court" time.

Simply, this is not a sales contract and it should be amended to make that clear.

Which is why I was failing at conveying that you can't add liability limitations into a sales contract, for a sale Cheesy

If I was him I'd still be worried even if he had the most perfect agent contract. Anyone can sue for anything and cause you major problems for years, even if there are no obvious grounds. Like the Jackson family suing the tour promotion company for billions for the alleged wrongdoings of the family doctor ^_^

stripykitteh

legendary

Activity: 1176

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CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

Quote from: dogie on June 08, 2013, 08:56:45 PM

You are offering a product, and you have a supplier. If your supplier scams you, its your responsibility. The buyers all bought a product from YOU, if YOU can't provide it then you have to refund them in full. Seriously, this entire thing is a disaster waiting to happen. If they turn out to be a scam, you'll be accountable for every penny.

Dogie, there's nothing in contract law disallowing principal-agent relationships. For the sake of clarity though that should be an express term of the contract. As long as the principal goes into it with their eyes open I can't see any problem. If BitCentury masqueraded as a seller and then later claimed only to be an agent when things went pear-shaped, THAT would be a problem and it would be "see you in court" time.

Simply, this is not a sales contract and it should be amended to make that clear.

stripykitteh

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The contract is more or less what I was expecting. It's pretty clear that this is a principal-agent relationship for a fee, not a buyer-seller relationship. If there are defects in what is delivered the buyer does not have recourse through BitCentury unless breach of contract can be proved.

I think the contract should explicitly state when delivery is effective - i.e., does BitCentury's responsibility for delivery stop at a port of entry to the principal's country? (i.e., the principal is responsible for the product clearing customs) As a principal I'd like to see something in there about a delivery warranty. i.e., if BitCentury's courier (DHL or whoever) fails to deliver the product or damages it in transit I would be compensated (or will the delivery contract be between the customer and DHL rather than BitCentury and DHL - that should be clarified).

If anyone is uncomfortable with what is proposed I recommend asking for a refund now; I think BitCentury would be mad to draw up the contract as a buyer-seller relationship, precisely because there are so many issues at play here that they have no control over.

I'm currently studying law, btw.

Topic: [BitCentury] Metabank 120Gh 65nm Pre-Order Proxy [CLOSED] - page 11. (Read 79057 times)