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Topic: [BitCentury] Metabank 120Gh 65nm Pre-Order Proxy [CLOSED] - page 12. (Read 79057 times)

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
Your liabilities section is all bullshit. You can put whatever you want in a contract, but if its not legal then its as if it didn't exist. I really hope your partner owns your house, as if they're a scam/fail then you're going absolutely bankrupt with the liability. And don't tell me "its being done by lawyer", I would rip that contract to shreds in court.

Dogie, you can disagree as much as you like with us, but I ask that you be civil about it. As stated in numerous places this is only an early draft and anything may change. You may be quite right that some statements may not be legal, at minimum in your jurisdiction - I am not a lawyer, that's why we hired a law firm to review it. Further, if you don't like the upcoming legally binding contract, you do not have to buy a product from us or if you own one, you can request a full refund under the terms stated. We could have waited until Monday to provide only the legal version, but we released this early to allow people to judge as to whether or not they are ok with our intended sales contract proposal, and yes we welcome feedback.

And lastly, we should actually thank you, as you were the one who suggested we should have a sales contract in the previous thread. So thank you.

Regards,
Luis

I am being civil, I'm actually trying to help you specifically. Unfortunately the damage has been done and you now have 6.5TH of orders which you are liable for if they go missing. Its not about my jurisdiction or state, its the whole basis of this group buy and others trying to pass on liability - it just can't be done.

You are offering a product, and you have a supplier. If your supplier scams you, its your responsibility. The buyers all bought a product from YOU, if YOU can't provide it then you have to refund them in full. Seriously, this entire thing is a disaster waiting to happen. If they turn out to be a scam, you'll be accountable for every penny.

I don't remember suggesting a sales contract directly either.
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
Your liabilities section is all bullshit. You can put whatever you want in a contract, but if its not legal then its as if it didn't exist. I really hope your partner owns your house, as if they're a scam/fail then you're going absolutely bankrupt with the liability. And don't tell me "its being done by lawyer", I would rip that contract to shreds in court.

Dogie, you can disagree as much as you like with us, but I ask that you be civil about it. As stated in numerous places this is only an early draft and anything may change. You may be quite right that some statements may not be legal, at minimum in your jurisdiction - I am not a lawyer, that's why we hired a law firm to review it. Further, if you don't like the upcoming legally binding contract, you do not have to buy a product from us or if you own one, you can request a full refund under the terms stated. We could have waited until Monday to provide only the legal version, but we released this early to allow people to judge as to whether or not they are ok with our intended sales contract proposal, and yes we welcome feedback.

And lastly, we should actually thank you, as you were the one who suggested we should have a sales contract in the previous thread. So thank you.

Regards,
Luis
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
Hello everyone,

Please find below a link to an unofficial draft copy of our intended sales contract. As stated in the document, any and all words, conditions, obligations etc may still change pending our lawyer's final review and recommendations; however, I don't anticipate any drastic changes.

Given we still have some time until we can meet with our lawyers on Monday to acquire the final version, please feel free to review it and provide any feedback, concerns, suggestions etc. I look forward to your comments!  

The PDF has a password. The password is:  NOT LEGALLY BINDING DRAFT COPY

View document here:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bz7CvNpsvWycUm1yb015UzFjbFU/edit?usp=sharing


Thank you for your patience thus far with this process,
Luis

Your liabilities section is all bullshit. You can put whatever you want in a contract, but if its not legal then its as if it didn't exist. I really hope your partner owns your house, as if they're a scam/fail then you're going absolutely bankrupt with the liability. And don't tell me "its being done by lawyer", I would rip that contract to shreds in court.
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
Hello everyone,

Please find below a link to an unofficial draft copy of our intended sales contract. As stated in the document, any and all words, conditions, obligations etc may still change pending our lawyer's final review and recommendations; however, I don't anticipate any drastic changes.

Given we still have some time until we can meet with our lawyers on Monday to acquire the final version, please feel free to review it and provide any feedback, concerns, suggestions etc. I look forward to your comments!  

The PDF has a password. The password is:  NOT LEGALLY BINDING DRAFT COPY

View document here: [EDIT: This has now been removed, as it is no longer necessary]



Thank you for your patience thus far with this process,
Luis
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
Sales Contract Update: I am still awaiting a call back from the owner of our law firm regarding the finalized sales contract for all our customers. If I don't get a call back soon, I will just post our non-lawyer-approved sales contract draft which should at least give you all an idea of the terms we are considering. We would then wait until Monday to get the final version and post that immediately.
Cheers,
Luis
hero member
Activity: 1118
Merit: 541
We'd again like to thank everyone for their vote of confidence in us, and congratulations to all those who have made their first purchases of the fastest (and lowest power) bitcoin ASIC technology bitcoins can buy today. We have just placed the 8th order of devices from Metabank now totaling 51 devices and a collective hash rate of 6.12Th/s.

If you have any questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,
Tom Sensel
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
however, $1700 is a high premium to pay for implied trust. best of luck, a 78% markup is too rich for my blood Smiley

Understood nubbins, everyone has their own cost/risk tolerance and budgets. Clearly, with 41 units sold in about 1 week so far, some people seem to like our offer. With the recent developments (Bitfury's officially acknowledging us + likely getting alpha chips for testing + me getting Johnk verified + sales contract about to be published), it is highly likely that given we are keeping our fiat price the same (BTC is slightly higher, but only because of BTC/USD price drop) I would not be surprised  if even more people find our offer to be even more attractive than before. Also, just FYI, once the alpha chips are confirmed to be working, I would not be surprised if the cost/unit would rise substancially - something not under our control at the moment. So if you are buying from somewhere else, it may be wise to do it sooner rather than later. Best of luck to you as well. Smiley
Luis
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1009
The value we provide is this:
1)Trustworthy Russian staff
2) Secure testing & shipping facility
3)Proven Competency
4)Working hard to build trust with you
5) Highly technical
6) Long Term Business
7) Building a customer support structure
8 )Unique thus far
9) Keeping our customers informed on a frequent basis

1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 are the same thing (i.e. that you are competent businessmen).

regarding 2, i am unsure whether it is normal for homes/offices to be insecure in moscow, so i'm not sure of the value here.

it seems that 8 is the real 'meat and potatoes'. fair enough: you're one of the few offering this service in a transparent manner. however, $1700 is a high premium to pay for implied trust.

best of luck, a 78% markup is too rich for my blood Smiley
hero member
Activity: 1118
Merit: 541
is it just me? but 90.000$ for 110GH/S?

there must be somewhere you can get that cheaper?

What you are referring to is not what is being offered in this thread. The 90,000$ unit for 110Gh/s was the FPGA mining rig that bitfury developed over 1 year ago. What is currently being offered is an ASIC mining rig of 120Gh/s for 2160$. These devices are currently only available through Metabank.ru and they state they will only be delivering within Russian borders. Bitfury is the designer of the chip/device and Metabank is the distributor. Hence the reason for our offering of this courier service to picking up, test, and deliver the device to your premises. Our fee for this service is approximately 1300$ per unit (shipping fees included, Customs tax/vat excluded). You can see our current BTC rates in the initial thread stating the cost as well as the specifications of the chip / device itself.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

-Tom
donator
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
is it just me? but 90.000$ for 110GH/S?

there must be somewhere you can get that cheaper?

 Shocked

You buying BTC for $2800?

They are charging BTC32 for 120 GH/s.     Wink
hero member
Activity: 960
Merit: 502
is it just me? but 90.000$ for 110GH/S?

there must be somewhere you can get that cheaper?
hero member
Activity: 1118
Merit: 541
How much per unit are you charging for two units? Thanks

As a result of the recent declines in btc/fiat exchange we have had to slightly increase pricing to cover the unit purchases and expenses incurred. The cost for 1-4 units is currently 34 BTC each. Your total would be 68BTC for the 2 units.

Regards,
Tom Sensel
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1006
Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.
How much per unit are you charging for two units? Thanks
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
My colleague and I are working at a smaller scale but figured there was no harm in offering to help!
Absolutely! Good luck! Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
Thanks stripykitteh,
As I had mentioned a few posts above, we have been in contact with Bitfury - now you can see the evidence ;-) . Also in that thread you just reference, you'll notice OrphanGland (our lead engineer/CTO) made one of the first posts, could have been the first after bitfury, but we were too busy talking to him about the alpha testing chips. Needless to say, we are aiming to be alpha testers as our ultimate goal has always been to make our own boards and ASICs, it's just we arrived a bit late in the scene to target the current nm sizes.

Yes, I've looked at OrphanedGland's project and I am sure BitCentury will be chosen as one of the 3-4 alpha testers, especially as there is a community around your project that has a vested interest in you (and bitfury) succeeding. My colleague and I are working at a smaller scale but figured there was no harm in offering to help!
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
Quote
Question: how many of these units do you plan to proxy, and what value do you provide for the $1700/unit you are charging for this service?
Hi,
We will proxy as many as our customers want to buy until Metabank.ru runs out of allocated chips from their assigned wafer lot.  

The value we provide is this:
1)Trustworthy Russian staff: We have very competent trustworthy business contacts & soon to be employees in Russia that will receive the units from Metabank in Moscow. Depending on volume of sales, one or two of us may very well fly there ourselves for a period of time.
2) Secure testing & shipping facility We will setup a secure facility there to open each unit, test it to make sure it is working, package it for international shipping to you.
3)Proven Competency We are competent individuals as evidenced by our accomplishments in life and as evidenced by the information we provide in the questions that have been asked so far. You can also see 6 more pages of discussions here, prior to this thread. We recently moved the thread here so we could better manage it. Old thread worth reading: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcentury-metabank-120gh-65nm-asic-pre-order-proxy-07wgh-32btc-per-unit-223656
4)Working hard to build trust with you  We are trying our best to build your trust in us. Today I was verified by "JohnK" as requested by several people here. This basically means that all along I am in real life who I say I am. I personally I am not just hiding behind some alias, and have provided my linkedin profile and have also had skype calls with some of our customers, although this aspect is not something I can promise to do for everyone due to time constraints.
5) Highly technical Senseless, and especially Nigel have a very strong technical background in this area (FPGA & ASIC design, PCB design, assembly, etc). I am less technical in this area than they are, as my area of expertise is in Network Engineering and Data Center Operations, but in short, we know what we are talking about and have done extensive research.
6) Long Term Business We're not just a bunch of guys running an overnight operation, we plan to be around for a long time as a business and have recently incorporated. In short, we are here to offer support after you receive your units.
7) Building a customer support structure While it has been a lower priority compared to everything else we've been working on, we aim to at minimum have a basic website up and running where over time we will build all technical, support and product offering information on.
8 )Unique thus far As far as I could tell, though I haven't extensively searched the forums, we may be the only Western company providing this proxy service in Russia, though if you want to gamble there seem to be several other mostly Russian individuals offering a similar service, but possibly of questionable trustworthiness.
9) Keeping our customers informed on a frequent basis: One of the challenges I've seen not yet seen well resolved with just about every single ASIC board company thus far, is that their staff is not easily accessible to customers, transparency is often lacking and customer service is for the most part seriously lacking. It's easy to talk when we haven't had a chance to prove ourselves yet, as we are not yet handling anywhere near the volumes they are, but I can assure you this is one of my highest priorities. It is risky enough to venture into any one of these operations as a customer, it is even more nerve racking when there is a huge lack of communication and support structure for the customer base.  I must admit that this is somewhat the outcome of a hashing speed arms race. It's all Engineers heads down doing the core work, while customers await with bated breath of any hint of what might be going on, often waiting weeks without any updates. Resources are extremely scarce in many of these circumstances, but now that some of these operations have millions in their pockets, those excuses should be gone, still customers are seemingly left in the side lines a lot of the times. I very much intend to improve on this circumstance with our company.

In short some of our profits are eaten up by operating costs and overhead in what we are trying to do (plane tickets to Russia, employee salaries, office space, custom exporting fees, shipping costs, etc), the rest is profit for us to re-invest in the future of our company and if we're lucky we may also end up paying ourselves some money for the countless hours we're putting into this at all levels.

Let me know if you have any other questions,
Cheers Smiley
Luis
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
Thanks stripykitteh,

As I had mentioned a few posts above, we have been in contact with Bitfury - now you can see the evidence ;-) . Also in that thread you just reference, you'll notice OrphanGland (our lead engineer/CTO) made one of the first posts, could have been the first after bitfury, but we were too busy talking to him about the alpha testing chips. Needless to say, we are aiming to be alpha testers as our ultimate goal has always been to make our own boards and ASICs, it's just we arrived a bit late in the scene to target the current nm sizes. Anyway, there's more news along these lines to come in the not too distant future. We are all very much looking forward to the resulting tests of these chips, but it would even better to verify them ourselves.
Stay tunned! Smiley


On another note, our sales contract was actually finalized earlier today; however, the lawyer assigned to this somehow didn't send it to us. We're not quite sure what happened. We contacted the lawfirm owner, and he left voice messages on every phone of the lawyer assigned to this, so hopefully by tomorrow sometime we will get it and post it here.

So all in all, lots of developments today:
* I got JohnK verified, hopefully to everyone's satisfaction
* We are looking to alpha test Bitfury's chips
* Sales contract is finished, hopefully we can release it tomorrow.

Have a good night everyone!
-Luis
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
This came out in the last hour or so:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-bitfury-is-looking-for-alpha-testers-of-first-chips-free-money-here-228677

Bitfury is looking for alpha-testers for the chips. He also mentions BitCentury by name. He gives a qualified endorsement of BitCentury:

PS. I've read that someone here is reselling metabank.ru offers with our chips. I would like to clarify - first - neither me nor metabank.ru endorses these resellers. Second - metabank.ru is not taking 'prepayment', its just preorders with 100% refund  just to freeze funds - basically people can just show them bitcoins and keep on their OWN wallets (not moving them). Its mainly purpose is just preliminary evaluation of volumes for next production batch. With other sales, etc - that all will be discussed only AFTER testing. So my advice - don't be crazy and don't buy BS (Edited: this is what I meant - is those crazy sellers for $5k with prepayment and without guarantees, BitCentury seems to be legit and faithful).... But of course you may be lucky and that will happen as advertised - that's your win/loose.

A colleague and I are considering whether to offer to be alpha-testers.
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