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Topic: Bitcoin all time high and the hoarding theory. (Poll included) - page 2. (Read 5277 times)

sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
What I'm trying to say is, some amount of disagreement is to be expected. But, yeah, the aggressive, personal tone that developed pretty soon isn't your fault.
Do you concur with him that Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme ?

I have nothing against someone who knows how to make money & diversify his/her portfolio, but when someone talks nonsense its worth pointing that out to them.

The term "pyramid scheme" is charged, and often equated with "Ponzi scheme".

At least as an investment, Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme (though not a Ponzi scheme), in the sense that the earlier you got in, the more your investment will be worth, and without new blood entering, your investment doesn't grow.

The big difference to the usual pyramid schemes though is that in our case, it is just the bootstrapping phase of a peer to peer currency/store of wealth. In other words: it has to be a pyramid scheme, because it needs to start from nothing, and aims to grow to capture a huge market.

Lets say an very early adopter has paid lots of money for his mining equipment and bills but has chosen not to sell any of his bitcoins. If tomorrow bitcoin price collapses he will have a worse faith than someone who joined a year later than him but sold his bitcoins. Therefore In order to call it a pyramid scheme those early adopters should
1. make a financial gain bigger than the adopters that joined after him
 and
2. have a GUARANTEED PROFIT from the fact that others joined later. In our early adopter case neither is true. This could be the case with many bitcoiners which haven't yet recovered their investment which they made into mining while others who traded on the exchanges but joined later than them made much more money.

Bitcoin is not a pyramid scheme because
3. there's not a level of differentiation between joining dates of participants, only that you acquire more knowledge of the inner workings of Bitcoin.
also
4. you don't have to make a payment to join, you can merely offer your services in return for bitcoins and doesn't require you to buy or mine them, hence no initial payment is required for you to join. Overstock for example keeps 10% of bitcoins for their products. They haven't investment anything into bitcoin but still they can interact with some of the earliest adopters without Bitcoin making any distinctions between them.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
What I'm trying to say is, some amount of disagreement is to be expected. But, yeah, the aggressive, personal tone that developed pretty soon isn't your fault.
Do you concur with him that Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme ?

I have nothing against someone who knows how to make money & diversify his/her portfolio, but when someone talks nonsense its worth pointing that out to them.

The term "pyramid scheme" is charged, and often equated with "Ponzi scheme".

At least as an investment, Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme (though not a Ponzi scheme), in the sense that the earlier you got in, the more your investment will be worth, and without new blood entering, your investment doesn't grow.

The big difference to the usual pyramid schemes though is that in our case, it is just the bootstrapping phase of a peer to peer currency/store of wealth. In other words: it has to be a pyramid scheme, because it needs to start from nothing, and aims to grow to capture a huge market.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
... and thanks to Bitcoin, yeah and thanks to you as well for joining and making my investment worth more.


Some pictures from Today's Trip : http://www.sports-tracker.com/#/workout/mmitech/e0pk4sh2amjegqno

translation: eat a dick.


Is it so expensive to wander in the woods nowadays that you need an investment ? :-)

Your investment isn't worth more because new users joined, but because Bitcoin is FINITE(current users will value 1 btc more tomorrow than they do today) & miners PAID MUCH MORE for their mining equipment & electricity bills(so they won't sell their mined bitcoins for less than it would take to recover their invesment). You understand Bitcoin worse than a newbie. You're really pathetic.

you need some time to understand the whole picture, but whatever....it is not expensive to go to the woods but it is expensive to quit your job and have have time to spend with your family doing things you love anytime, well this is*priceless*.

you are still attacking me, you didn't provide a single valid argument against my arguments, another stupid post and you will go on my ignore list.

I don't know what you call a valid argument but you're wrong thinking I'm here to change your mind, your mind is already set so at least I can show to others how wrong you are.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
things you own end up owning you
What I'm trying to say is, some amount of disagreement is to be expected. But, yeah, the aggressive, personal tone that developed pretty soon isn't your fault.
Do you concur with him that Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme ?

I have nothing against someone who knows how to make money & diversify his/her portfolio, but when someone talks nonsense its worth pointing that out to them.

of course it is, do your math and grow up.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
What I'm trying to say is, some amount of disagreement is to be expected. But, yeah, the aggressive, personal tone that developed pretty soon isn't your fault.
Do you concur with him that Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme ?

I have nothing against someone who knows how to make money & diversify his/her portfolio, but when someone talks nonsense its worth pointing that out to them.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
things you own end up owning you
... and thanks to Bitcoin, yeah and thanks to you as well for joining and making my investment worth more.


Some pictures from Today's Trip : http://www.sports-tracker.com/#/workout/mmitech/e0pk4sh2amjegqno

translation: eat a dick.


Is it so expensive to wander in the woods nowadays that you need an investment ? :-)

Your investment isn't worth more because new users joined, but because Bitcoin is FINITE(current users will value 1 btc more tomorrow than they do today) & miners PAID MUCH MORE for their mining equipment & electricity bills(so they won't sell their mined bitcoins for less than it would take to recover their invesment). You understand Bitcoin worse than a newbie. You're really pathetic.

you need some time to understand the whole picture, but whatever....it is not expensive to go to the woods but it is expensive to quit your job to have time to spend with your family doing things you love anytime, well this is*priceless*.

you are still attacking me, you didn't provide a single valid argument against my arguments, another stupid post and you will go on my ignore list.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
I will make sure to enjoy my time, thankfully to my dumb decision, and you can bitch about it as much you want, this year has been a 180° change in my life (in various aspects) and thanks to Bitcoin, yeah and thanks to you as well for joining and making my investment worth more.


Some pictures from Today's Trip : http://www.sports-tracker.com/#/workout/mmitech/e0pk4sh2amjegqno

[...]

translation: eat a dick.


ITT lots and lots of extremely skin thinned bulls in here. The rally so far not to your liking, gentlemen?

Anyway, ignoring all the bile being spread in this thread... enjoy your time off, mmitech. I agree what some have pointed out, that there would have probably been better times to sell than right now, from a purely economical perspective, but you don't need to justify your decision when and how much to sell one bit.

I don't need to justify my position, they turned this discussion about my personal decision... I pointed out that after I sold half of my stash my average cost now is $-400/Bitcoin so why would this be disappointing ? now even if bitcoin goes to zero I have nothing to lose, and thanks Wink

Like I said, some of the reactions in here are actually really pretty disappointing in their aggressiveness, including a number of posters that I thought would be better than that.

That said, your OP is a bit of a red cape: you're telling a forum full of (by and large) holders that a) you sold a substantial part of your holdings, and b) that you did so because you believe price will most likely not continue to go up in the near future.

What I'm trying to say is, some amount of disagreement is to be expected. But, yeah, the aggressive, personal tone that developed pretty soon isn't your fault.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
... and thanks to Bitcoin, yeah and thanks to you as well for joining and making my investment worth more.


Some pictures from Today's Trip : http://www.sports-tracker.com/#/workout/mmitech/e0pk4sh2amjegqno



translation: eat a dick.


Is it so expensive to wander in the woods nowadays that you need an investment ? :-)

Your investment isn't worth more because new users joined, but because Bitcoin is FINITE(current users will value 1 btc more tomorrow than they do today) & miners PAID MUCH MORE for their mining equipment & electricity bills(so they won't sell their mined bitcoins for less than it would take to recover their invesment). You understand Bitcoin worse than a newbie. You're really pathetic.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
things you own end up owning you
I will make sure to enjoy my time, thankfully to my dumb decision, and you can bitch about it as much you want, this year has been a 180° change in my life (in various aspects) and thanks to Bitcoin, yeah and thanks to you as well for joining and making my investment worth more.


Some pictures from Today's Trip : http://www.sports-tracker.com/#/workout/mmitech/e0pk4sh2amjegqno

[...]

translation: eat a dick.


ITT lots and lots of extremely skin thinned bulls in here. The rally so far not to your liking, gentlemen?

Anyway, ignoring all the bile being spread in this thread... enjoy your time off, mmitech. I agree what some have pointed out, that there would have probably been better times to sell than right now, from a purely economical perspective, but you don't need to justify your decision when and how much to sell one bit.

I don't need to justify my position, they turned this discussion about my personal decision... I pointed out that after I sold half of my stash my average cost now is $-400/Bitcoin so why would this be disappointing ? now even if bitcoin goes to zero I have nothing to lose, and thanks Wink
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
I will make sure to enjoy my time, thankfully to my dumb decision, and you can bitch about it as much you want, this year has been a 180° change in my life (in various aspects) and thanks to Bitcoin, yeah and thanks to you as well for joining and making my investment worth more.


Some pictures from Today's Trip : http://www.sports-tracker.com/#/workout/mmitech/e0pk4sh2amjegqno

[...]

translation: eat a dick.


ITT lots and lots of extremely skin thinned bulls in here. The rally so far not to your liking, gentlemen?

Anyway, ignoring all the bile being spread in this thread... enjoy your time off, mmitech. I agree what some have pointed out, that there would have probably been better times to sell than right now, from a purely economical perspective, but you don't need to justify your decision when and how much to sell one bit.
legendary
Activity: 3738
Merit: 10374
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
legendary
Activity: 3738
Merit: 10374
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
oh so now I am dumb and showing off because I will be free for the next couple of years...
lots of early adopters made millions but in return they invested back in bitcoin related businesses, thats a reason to brag about. But no one likes speculators who only use Bitcoin as a tool to get rich and then brag about it; you could do alot of good things to let other people know about Bitcoin's utility, not about get rich quick schemes; maybe create/invest in bitcoin businesses. You instead come along and brag about being free and how smart you were to take advantage of Bitcoin. Well, good for you but not many will agree with your attitude, try something constructive, help Bitcoin grow further, give something back if you're really a bitcoin adopter not only a speculator.

Bitcoin investment is pyramid scheme, the only way for your Bitcoins to be worth more is to bring new people in... you know "help introduce more people to the magic of Bitcoin"... many early adopters and large holders are just a bunch of scumbags, from roger Ver to Mark to.... satoshi himself  they don't fucking care about you or me but only about their investment to be worth more....

Lol how can you say its a pyramid scheme, its totally the opposite, when new users adopt Bitcoin, we together all benefit in various ways, there is no one at the top of the tree, we all benefit because we can interact financially. I don't know how you have so many posts and miss the essence of Bitcoin, its not about bringing people in, they come in by themselves, I said you could help people understand Bitcoin utility in that they are well informed about the technology that it brings not about the get-rich schemes that you obviously took advantage of. People like you make me sick, but I'm not worrying too much because you'll soon sell the other half of your btc stash.

I am not against Bitcoin, but people like you need to be aware of what they are investing in, in fact, there is a top pyramid which his satoshi with a million BTC, and new users benefit of Bitcoin only if other users joins after them, and we get new adopters only when: a) they see the price appreciating (skyrocketing) so they jump in to profit and later start learning about bitcoin technical and economical stuff b) they are curious about the technology.

most users are the first kind because every bubble bring huge amount of users like you (and like me before) and yes I will make sure to sell my other half when it is time, because I am also sure that Bitcoin is just a start of a new era and it is not the era ( emotional people wouldn't understand this)

People like me know what Bitcoin is, and certainly not a pyramid scheme, there so one at the top of the tree, we all benefit by utilizing Bitcoin.

People like me don't treat Bitcoin as an investment, we are not speculators, we are adopters.

People like me give shit about btc price, it doesn't matter if it goes up or down, we will not sell our bitcoin based on fear, we use bitcoin daily for our internet purchases and as soon as more merchants starts to accept it locally we will use it more and more.

People like me are aware of the risk of investing huge amounts on bitcoin and its not something we advise. Actually I don't advise anyone to purchase bitcoin in order to get rich, I mostly donate to them in order for them to appreciate what a amazing piece of technology we have been given by Satoshi.

People like me don't brag when they make money because bitcoin price has appreciated. In fact people like me are hoping that bitcoin doesn't skyrocket so that we don't attract more people like you who only take advantage but give nothing in return.

Your use of a bubble as an argument for poeple adopting bitcoin is very poor because people fear bubble type schemes. If that would've been the premise for user adoption then Bitcoin would've been dead by now.

What kind of low life *** you are if you think this is a pyramid scheme and you still hold couple hundreds of btcs. Well thats another feature of bitcoin that no one is banned for using it, no matter how perverse they are.


Very good points, Maok, and well said!!!   Wink
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
things you own end up owning you
legendary
Activity: 3738
Merit: 10374
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
oh so now I am dumb and showing off because I will be free for the next couple of years...
lots of early adopters made millions but in return they invested back in bitcoin related businesses, thats a reason to brag about. But no one likes speculators who only use Bitcoin as a tool to get rich and then brag about it; you could do alot of good things to let other people know about Bitcoin's utility, not about get rich quick schemes; maybe create/invest in bitcoin businesses. You instead come along and brag about being free and how smart you were to take advantage of Bitcoin. Well, good for you but not many will agree with your attitude, try something constructive, help Bitcoin grow further, give something back if you're really a bitcoin adopter not only a speculator.

Bitcoin investment is pyramid scheme, the only way for your Bitcoins to be worth more is to bring new people in... you know "help introduce more people to the magic of Bitcoin"... many early adopters and large holders are just a bunch of scumbags, from roger Ver to Mark to.... satoshi himself  they don't fucking care about you or me but only about their investment to be worth more....

Lol how can you say its a pyramid scheme, its totally the opposite, when new users adopt Bitcoin, we together all benefit in various ways, there is no one at the top of the tree, we all benefit because we can interact financially. I don't know how you have so many posts and miss the essence of Bitcoin, its not about bringing people in, they come in by themselves, I said you could help people understand Bitcoin utility in that they are well informed about the technology that it brings not about the get-rich schemes that you obviously took advantage of. People like you make me sick, but I'm not worrying too much because you'll soon sell the other half of your btc stash.


We can only hope that mmitech will sell the other half of his bitcoins and remove himself from this poor investment called bitcoin.  Then the rest of us can suffer.  Mmitech, could you just sell all of your bitcoins and remove yourself from BTC and from this forum.  Thank you.
legendary
Activity: 3738
Merit: 10374
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
oh so now I am dumb and showing off because I will be free for the next couple of years...
lots of early adopters made millions but in return they invested back in bitcoin related businesses, thats a reason to brag about. But no one likes speculators who only use Bitcoin as a tool to get rich and then brag about it; you could do alot of good things to let other people know about Bitcoin's utility, not about get rich quick schemes; maybe create/invest in bitcoin businesses. You instead come along and brag about being free and how smart you were to take advantage of Bitcoin. Well, good for you but not many will agree with your attitude, try something constructive, help Bitcoin grow further, give something back if you're really a bitcoin adopter not only a speculator.

I largely agree with you, Maok; however, on a personal level, I do NOT really expect that individuals have a responsibility to invest back into bitcoin before they have a right to bragg.  For me, I did harp a little bit about mmitech's bragging b/c he seems to be acting as if he is some kind of wise / guru in his foresight in when he invested, and then that he made a profit and that he is getting out before the ship goes does... some kinds of implications like that.  

Certainly, NONE of us really know exactly the direction of bitcoin and the future, so surely it may be possible that mmitech guesses correctly and gets it right and bitcoin tanks tomorrow and then he has gotten his money out before the BIG BITCOIN CRASH.  YET>>> personally, I believe that the odds are considerably against mmitech having had bet correctly and on top of that I have already explained that it makes hardly any sense to take out 2 years worth of spending with your bitcoin proceeds at this particular moment, when it seems more likely than NOT that BTC prices are on their way UP rather than DOWN.  In other words, in my thinking, NOT only is mmitech lacking in a plan, he is lacking in any kind of meaningful ability to communicate why his investment decision to remove half of his bitcoin investment would be a prudent choice at this point in time.
 
legendary
Activity: 3738
Merit: 10374
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
OP is attention whoring here.

I had already responded in considerable details to his lack of grappling with his own financial situation and the silliness of his choice to sell half of his stash at this time.  Instead of going through some kind of meaningful reassessment of his past actions and to reconsider what he had already done, he seems to be trying to seek justification for his previous stupid-ass decision to sell half of his stash in order to live off of those proceeds for two years.

There is NO real poll answer that would adequately capture my sense of OP's behavior here, except the closest would probably be that he is spreading FUD.  However, a more appropriate response is that OP is either blind or dumb, and is failing to engage in an adequate self-assessment regarding his investment plan and strategies.

It does NOT seem to be worth the effort to engage too much in this thread or on this topic in this thread b/c OP has an inadequate understanding of his own situation to be of any real meaning or usefulness for the bitcoin investment considerations of others.

you didn't argue a single statement of those I posted through the whole thread, but you came to tell me how dumb idiot I am... no one pointed here to me selling half of my Bitcoins except you....nice, it shows how pity and empty you are, and this shows who is the real idiot... answer to my posts with a reasonable and logical post and quit personal attacks...


The main reason that I came to this thread and commented here is b/c you and I seemed to be having a series of posts and discussions/debates in another thread and in one of the posts (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7392143)  you referred me to this thread that you were making, which I presumed to be that you were explaining your investment plan, or something like that, but seems NOT

Here's another series from the thread too.  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7316589



Even though my language has seemed to become increasingly strong, b/c I have become increasingly irritated by the content of your posts, I have never really intended to personally attack you... or to call you dumb.. just to call your ideas dumb and lack of plan dumb and your seemingly lack of an ability to communicate dumb.  So, I apologize if you took any of my posts as personal attacks b/c they were NOT meant to be personal attacks.

NO DOUBT, I do stand by my previous statements, and to the extent that you are bringing up and/or framing some new or additional topic, at this point, I am NOT really interested in reading and/or attempting to understand the potentially fine details of any framing that you have b/c I have already come to realize that you seem to have a lot of real perverted thinking and logical connections that greatly are out of the range of anything that I consider to be valuable use of time to engage in such goofeyness.  I will glance through the remainder of this thread to see if there is any potential value or any way in which maybe my contribution may be helpful to others reading the thread... however, largely I believe that I have wasted enough of my time entertaining you various streams of consciousness to realize that they do NOT really seem to go anywhere that I find worth being.


legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
things you own end up owning you
OP sounds like a douche-bag.

you could vote for " go fuck your self" or " the OP is butt hurt" but you bitcoin fanatics are so bitchy when it comes to things that scares you....
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
OP sounds like a douche-bag.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
oh so now I am dumb and showing off because I will be free for the next couple of years...
lots of early adopters made millions but in return they invested back in bitcoin related businesses, thats a reason to brag about. But no one likes speculators who only use Bitcoin as a tool to get rich and then brag about it; you could do alot of good things to let other people know about Bitcoin's utility, not about get rich quick schemes; maybe create/invest in bitcoin businesses. You instead come along and brag about being free and how smart you were to take advantage of Bitcoin. Well, good for you but not many will agree with your attitude, try something constructive, help Bitcoin grow further, give something back if you're really a bitcoin adopter not only a speculator.

Bitcoin investment is pyramid scheme, the only way for your Bitcoins to be worth more is to bring new people in... you know "help introduce more people to the magic of Bitcoin"... many early adopters and large holders are just a bunch of scumbags, from roger Ver to Mark to.... satoshi himself  they don't fucking care about you or me but only about their investment to be worth more....

Lol how can you say its a pyramid scheme, its totally the opposite, when new users adopt Bitcoin, we together all benefit in various ways, there is no one at the top of the tree, we all benefit because we can interact financially. I don't know how you have so many posts and miss the essence of Bitcoin, its not about bringing people in, they come in by themselves, I said you could help people understand Bitcoin utility in that they are well informed about the technology that it brings not about the get-rich schemes that you obviously took advantage of. People like you make me sick, but I'm not worrying too much because you'll soon sell the other half of your btc stash.

I am not against Bitcoin, but people like you need to be aware of what they are investing in, in fact, there is a top pyramid which his satoshi with a million BTC, and new users benefit of Bitcoin only if other users joins after them, and we get new adopters only when: a) they see the price appreciating (skyrocketing) so they jump in to profit and later start learning about bitcoin technical and economical stuff b) they are curious about the technology.

most users are the first kind because every bubble bring huge amount of users like you (and like me before) and yes I will make sure to sell my other half when it is time, because I am also sure that Bitcoin is just a start of a new era and it is not the era ( emotional people wouldn't understand this)

So satoshi is a scumbag, huh. What about Leonardo da Vinci, or Beethoven?

hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Moderator
I must admit , OP has some legit points!

the average Bitcoiner will tell you " go fuck your self" and will add " what this PHD holder and nobel winner know about economics", in fact Bitcoin price is a bubble but it doesn't mean that it will die, but it will settle and start a normal growth when it hits the real economy... see the bubble was because of the small userbase but when the user base is bigger and market is bigger it will harder to move the price 10X a year.

look at the weekly chart:




life cycle of a bubble




MMITECH posted the anatomy of a bubble, this made my day!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Thanks for that.

What´s next? Rpietila postin the south sea bubble chart?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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