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Topic: Bitcoin arbitrage, quite profitable BTC investment, make up to 1% ROI per day - page 10. (Read 47388 times)

full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
So wake up and smell the roses: There is no trading going on. Your deposits pay the profits for earlier investors and new depositors pay your profits. Just like any other Ponzi / HYIP scheme.

OK, if we assume that is a ponzi it's a miracle that is still standing, since many investors entered near the btc top price or close (nov 2013 - apr 2014), and they got their investment automatically converted in USD at the price of the time that they invested and got paid interests on that capital since then. And from some time many are getting the option to withdraw their capital beyond the interests already paid.

So unless the user base grown exponentially in the meanwhile a ponzi like this should be a short-lived fail, which is not even very anonymous given that they are operating through several pay processors and are effecting bank wires (which in itself is not a guarantee on the return of the investment, of course, but is already some steps ahead of pirate-likes).

It's not a miracle the ponzi is still standing. They pay less interest to begin with than one of the ponzi's I am in that is older than bitcoin-trader.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
It would be a miracle if they had folded already. A quick glance at their site indicates the "trading pool" contract runs 120 days, the "mining pool" contract 365 days (ask yourself: why?). They only seem to have started their newbie "Full disclosure: I am not related to this site in any way, shape or form. " sockpuppet referral spam campaign here earlier this year.
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
So wake up and smell the roses: There is no trading going on. Your deposits pay the profits for earlier investors and new depositors pay your profits. Just like any other Ponzi / HYIP scheme.

OK, if we assume that is a ponzi it's a miracle that is still standing, since many investors entered near the btc top price or close (nov 2013 - apr 2014), and they got their investment automatically converted in USD at the price of the time that they invested and got paid interests on that capital since then. And from some time many are getting the option to withdraw their capital beyond the interests already paid.

So unless the user base grown exponentially in the meanwhile a ponzi like this should be a short-lived fail, which is not even very anonymous given that they are operating through several pay processors and are effecting bank wires (which in itself is not a guarantee on the return of the investment, of course, but is already some steps ahead of pirate-likes).
legendary
Activity: 1615
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1007
DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!
June 16, 2014 trading result: +0.74

More people reached ROI, some decided to reinvest, some to withdraw. No problem either way.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1007
DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!
Less then 5 weeks until I reach full ROI. I only wish I had more guts to invest more money when I joined BT.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
1% price difference. Subtract trade fees. Then divide by 2 (because you need BTC on the high-price exchange and the same value in USD on the other). That's the theoretical profit if you can utilize all your funds. In reality, you'll have most of your fiat stuck moving through the slow international banking system from one exchange via your bank account to the other exchange.

If you can translate a consistent 1% price difference between exchanges into a daily 0.2% profit then you're doing an amazing job.

Apart that I used to see greater differences than 1% most of the time between btc-e and bitfinex, there is no need to divide by 2, since btc-e is all the time the lowest price, so the operation would consists just in sending fiat to btc-e to buy btc there while selling btc on finex at an higher price.
Of course you need to divide by 2. If BTC is at $500 at the cheap exchange and you want to arb-trade 1 BTC, you need 1 BTC on the expensive exchange and $500 on the cheap exchange to perform the buy and sell orders simultaneously. That's $1000 worth of funds you use, split between USD and BTC. If the price-difference is 1%, that's $5 profit. That gives you a profit of 0.5% of the total funds involved in this trade ($5 on $1000). Of course you need to deduct $2 in total trade fees for these 2 trades dropping the profit down to 0.3% of the total funds involved in this trade.

Quote
[edit]: and of course there is no need to use the banking system for each single trade, just to refill the fiat deposit on btc-e when needed, which may be once per week or so.
To me it seems feasible. And probably a pro with high volumes could even obtain lower fees.
If you refill "when needed" or "once per week" that means you have a ton of money sitting around doing nothing for most of the time. As you mentioned, arbitrage opportunities are almost always in the same direction. So if you buy on BTC-e and sell on Bitfinex, any fiat you have on Bitfinex is idle and doing nothing. The same goes for any funds that are in transit in the bank system. But this is still investor money and counts towards the total amount invested. That means that all these idle funds drag the profit further down.

There are further issues with the claims made by Bitcoin-Trader, but the above alone should be more than enough to convince people that the profits claimed by Bitcoin-Trader, more than 1% almost every day, are unrealistically high.

So wake up and smell the roses: There is no trading going on. Your deposits pay the profits for earlier investors and new depositors pay your profits. Just like any other Ponzi / HYIP scheme. And as long as people keep depositing, the site will keep paying and everything appears fine. But like every other Ponzi scheme, eventually the new deposits will dry up and the whole thing comes crashing down.
newbie
Activity: 49
Merit: 0
Looks interesting............

You get a the referral.

Jerry
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1007
DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!
Just a warning to people, this thread is obviously run by a paid person by bitcoin-trader or someone on their staff/admin. crazyivan is either a shill or actually an employee/manager of bitcoin-trader.

Hahaha, no, no, you ve forgotten to mention that I am actually Satoshi Nakomoto. Now everybody knows the truth. Smiley

I have to repay in kind, just a few details about Yonce aka Dominicwin, just take a look, it is really funny.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/yonce-exposed-also-known-as-finmutual-admin-626622

and

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/scammer-dominicwin6608btc-367983

Do you need more?

https://oilrigcontractors.com/index.php?a=news

Such a funny guy.


full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Just a warning to people, this thread is obviously run by a paid person by bitcoin-trader or someone on their staff/admin. crazyivan is either a shill or actually an employee/manager of bitcoin-trader.
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
1% price difference. Subtract trade fees. Then divide by 2 (because you need BTC on the high-price exchange and the same value in USD on the other). That's the theoretical profit if you can utilize all your funds. In reality, you'll have most of your fiat stuck moving through the slow international banking system from one exchange via your bank account to the other exchange.

If you can translate a consistent 1% price difference between exchanges into a daily 0.2% profit then you're doing an amazing job.

Apart that I used to see greater differences than 1% most of the time between btc-e and bitfinex, there is no need to divide by 2, since btc-e is all the time the lowest price, so the operation would consists just in sending fiat to btc-e to buy btc there while selling btc on finex at an higher price. [edit]: and of course there is no need to use the banking system for each single trade, just to refill the fiat deposit on btc-e when needed, which may be once per week or so.
To me it seems feasible. And probably a pro with high volumes could even obtain lower fees.

But I am not pimping. I already said to play just with anything one is willing to lose if at all.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
But as anyone here I don't know what they're really doing,

If you dont know exactly what they are really doing, and they are promising/paying unreal profits,  constantly trying to attract more and more funds with referral programs etc, it should be glaringly obvious what it is they are doing.

I cant believe someone who's been around since 2011 still falls for this. Tell me, how many other ponzi's did you get suckered in?

at this right moment -like ever- the delta between bitfinex and btc-e is 5$ = almost 1%. Can you believe it?

1% price difference. Subtract trade fees. Then divide by 2 (because you need BTC on the high-price exchange and the same value in USD on the other). That's the theoretical profit if you can utilize all your funds. In reality, you'll have most of your fiat stuck moving through the slow international banking system from one exchange via your bank account to the other exchange.

If you can translate a consistent 1% price difference between exchanges into a daily 0.2% profit then you're doing an amazing job.
legendary
Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001
I don't have any investment in bitcoin-trader.biz.  Still I'm amazed at how little creativity detractors show. For example, it is easy to have revolving lines of credit for fiat.   There are also multiple ways of moving fait and you can even move by using other cryto currencies.   There are fees and spreads that cut into the profit, but that isn't as much an issue if you can trade a multiple of your funds in a day.   It is also possible for prices between exchanges to narrow or reverse in a day.

And I'm amazed at how bad the wishful thinkers in this thread are at seeing the flaws in their arguments. Credit isn't free, and you wouldn't get much for something as speculative as this. If you want others to move the fiat for you, you would have to pay fees and they are very unlikely to give you the price for the crypto currency that is required for the arbitrage to work. You are completely ignoring all the real world problems with your "creative" ideas.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
What amazes me more is how little creativity these fraudsters have to show to keep suckering in people. Its the exact same thing each and every time and Ive heard all those arguments a gazillion times and each and every one of them ended up the same way.  

If you really believe you can achieve > 1000% YoY why on earth would you send your money to yet another anonymous website instead of doing it yourself? And if you dont have the skills, why not contract someone to do it for you. Now for argument's sake, lets say you do that, and it does actually work, what would you do? Invest your own money or let others rake in the profit?

Oh well, I couldnt convince anyone pirate, bitdaytrade and all the others where ponzi's, so Im sure I wont convince anyone this time. See you in 6 or 12 months in the scam accusation section.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 510
at this right moment -like ever- the delta between bitfinex and btc-e is 5$ = almost 1%. Can you believe it?

And what would the actual average daily profits be after you've paid the fees and waited for the days it takes to wire the fiat from Bitfinex to you and then back to BTC-e?

I don't have any investment in bitcoin-trader.biz.  Still I'm amazed at how little creativity detractors show.   For example, it is easy to have revolving lines of credit for fiat.   There are also multiple ways of moving fait and you can even move by using other cryto currencies.   There are fees and spreads that cut into the profit, but that isn't as much an issue if you can trade a multiple of your funds in a day.   It is also possible for prices between exchanges to narrow or reverse in a day.   
legendary
Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001
at this right moment -like ever- the delta between bitfinex and btc-e is 5$ = almost 1%. Can you believe it?

And what would the actual average daily profits be after you've paid the fees and waited for the days it takes to wire the fiat from Bitfinex to you and then back to BTC-e?
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
But as anyone here I don't know what they're really doing,

If you dont know exactly what they are really doing, and they are promising/paying unreal profits,  constantly trying to attract more and more funds with referral programs etc, it should be glaringly obvious what it is they are doing.

I cant believe someone who's been around since 2011 still falls for this. Tell me, how many other ponzi's did you get suckered in?

at this right moment -like ever- the delta between bitfinex and btc-e is 5$ = almost 1%. Can you believe it?
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
But as anyone here I don't know what they're really doing,

If you dont know exactly what they are really doing, and they are promising/paying unreal profits,  constantly trying to attract more and more funds with referral programs etc, it should be glaringly obvious what it is they are doing.

I cant believe someone who's been around since 2011 still falls for this. Tell me, how many other ponzi's did you get suckered in?
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
I bet you believed all the pirate bullshit too?  Here is the thing, even if they were somehow able to extract those kinds of profits, why would they still need your money and why would they pay the bulk of those rewards to you?

Because trading with other people's money they unload fully the risk on those others and still profit. And they could be making more than they are paying. Who knows?

But as anyone here I don't know what they're really doing, and that's why I advised to recover the investment as first-thing-first instead than reinvesting. Personally I invested only play money with them, like in any other btc investment scheme. I said I'm happy about the results I got from this, but past performance guarantees nothing as everyone should know.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
About insane profits in the bitcoinsphere one may cite the Asicminer case, gone from 0.1 btc/share at the IPO to 4.6+ btc/share at the top last summer (that is a 46-bagger or 4600% yoy in appreciation not counting the crazy high dividends it paid in the meanwhile), and now back to 0.25 paying nothing but ready for another pump.

Asicminer never promised a profit. The venture was high risk and could just as well have failed, like  99% of all other bitcoin securities did.  Thats something totally different as this here.

Quote
Profitable arbitration day in/day out seems not so hard to believe

I bet you believed all the pirate bullshit too? Goat's and Alberto's "arbitrage bots" ?  Bitscalper, bitdaytrade, bitwhateverponzi. Havent you been around long enough to see through this? Here is the thing, even if they were somehow able to extract those kinds of profits, why would they still need your money and why would they pay the bulk of those rewards to you?

Quote
given the relatively stable differences between some major exchanges. I'm just finding strange that when such differences are increasing like in the last few days the bitcoin-trader payout is decreasing.

Oh thats easy. One has nothing to do with the other. Payout decreasing is almost certainly because the shills arent managing to get enough new users to sign up. Or did you think pirate reducing his payouts was related to anything he ever said?
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