Topic: Bitcoin craze dying down? - page 7. (Read 15132 times)

The Grey and Black markets are currently bigger than the "White market". The fact that you discount the value of Bitcoin in these large and growing sectors speaks volumes to your mindset and agenda.

Bitcoin isn't meant to replace the role or "legal tender"; that has never been its purpose. Bitcoin is sovereign, international, and p2p. There will never be a company or government created crypto-currency fulfilling all the roles bitcoin seeks to fullfill because some of bitcoins roles are focused on creating a trust-less and decentralized ledger that cannot be controlled centrally.

Bitcoin price will recover eventually, these are just temporary alignments.

1) trading (im not talking about your PHP and unsecured little poormans exchanges that you watch like a hawk)
2) unbanked, research "mpesa" (multi billion dollar market cap and the onlyway africans can trade due to Zimbabwe dollar crash)
3) black market (multibillion dollar industry)
4) hide transactions from family (you call it inferior get hundreds of thousands of people would like that freedom)
5)gambing (u call it inferior, millions of others call it a billion dollar industry)
6)more fun than forex/stocks/shares (just like point one. im not talking about your PHP coded exchanges you are panicking over)
7) large funds across the border, research "policing for profit" - here one example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGh-7LOzeHw
secondly


thank you for proving my point that the crappy PHP coded exchanges your watching like a hawk should die. one day when you get thousands of bitcoins, you too can play at the adults table.


you also made a comment how banks dont see bitcoin as an issue. well i guess your blindness missed the lobbying for regulation.. try researching more, i wont spoon feed ya the information. i think the words "lobbying regulation" is enough of a hint for you to google


if only you knew how many bitcoin projects i have running, how many successful bitcoin businesses i have invested in, how many merchants i have helped start up.. then you would know why i am laughing at your comments right now.

keep digging a hole for yourself. the more you post the more your revealing information that proves my points.

Actually you started with the insults, I compose myself with the respect of other peoples opinions until they resort to insults, then I let loose.

These are not a true demand franky
1) investments   (tradable market hmmm? what have I been saying all along)
2) unbanked       (useless nonsense)
3) blackmarket   (usually only used by criminals so real world application does not apply)
4) porn you wont want the wife seing on ur credit card  (again inferior activities not a demand)
5) gambling        (again inferior activities not a demand)
6) more fun to trade bitcoins than forex/shares/stocks (a complete contradiction to your whole post you said people are not trading on the market but rather person to person)   
7) move funds easier and cheaper than western union/paypal/wire transfer (unless you use places like localbitcoin.com who use western union and wire transfer as a payment method after exchanging)

Your post is not filled with facts its filled with your opinion I was the one starting to throw facts using credible sites with thier stats, you didnt seem to like that either.

The things you deem as a demand are both not a demand and can easily be countered in other ways. Why do you have a need to take 10,000 dollars across the border, theres no reason for that unless you are conducting criminal activities, All the banking crap you mentioned does exist but its not enough to pressure people into trading their USD for Fiat because the risk of loss to exchanges or other places like MTGOX will never go away. People dont want to deal with the bullshit that comes with the banks but its better than loosing everything they have to more criminal people like exchange owners stealing your coins. If you need to buy things online without your spouse knowing about ti franky thats a personal problem it does not create a demand for a currency. My wife knows everything I do online and I am not bothered by that, sounds like you need a new spouse.And lastly "REAL" invewstors are not even in the bitcoin game, to many variables, to many risks, to much to lose.

And do you see how blindly stupid you are, Where did I say to put your coins on the market I said use your coins to create a demand, but you are so blindly stupid in your theories YOU (not me) are the one placing its value in its tradable market, no matter if that market is its exchange, person to person, black market. You do not have enough intelligence to even see how you can make a difference in your investment. I never said for you to create a buy wall franky I said take 100BTC and create a demand,there is a difference and shows you dont understand what a demand is. You instantly connected what I saidb for creating a demand with a buy wall.  That is not what i was talking about at all. You and other "smarter" people like you are EXACTLY why the banks do not fear bitcoin!! and that, franky1, are the facts!! better get all your smarter friends together and get to work creating a true demand, i suggest you get a little better educated first in both currency trading and business economics as you will need both to complete that task!!!

you do make me laugh, i reply with facts, information and stats, and you reply with questions and insults.

i numbered them out for you, do i need to spoon feed you the more detailed explanation of why the 7 points i listed are better handled with bitcoin than other currencies.

do you not understand anything that when the world has an inflationary currency, people actually want deflationary. do you not understand that when currencies are shutting down bank accounts or taking a 'haircut' from peoples accounts people want something in their 100% control. do you not understand that people want to buy things online that they dont want their spouses or strangers finding out about. do you not understand that investors want to store wealth in something that wont burn under fire or wont get recalled under marshal law. do you not understand taking $10k fiat across a border is automatic seizure and "policing for profit" yet transferring $1mill in bitcoin is instantaneous with no border guards ransacking your car or luggage.

if you think that bitcoin is useless. then please please use your miners and mine your $1 an hours worth of satoshi dust your getting and send it to 'seans outpost' as they will put it to better work and find more value in it then you ever would.

so i have a question for you. if you think its worthless and has no demand.. why are you even on this forum.

and as for using my coins to create a buy wall. i played that game in 2012, it was fun, i made more profit, but then i grew a backbone and realised the bigger picture.

while you cry babies are monitoring exchange prices like a hawk swooping and diving at every movement. i am making more money privately amongst the smarter people, and yes we are ignoring the hourly/daily changes of exchanges, as they are the small time things for the little guys. to be honest the sooner those exchanges die the better

franky1 in all your nonsense and rambling you still have not answered my question.

What does bitcoin have, sell or do that nothing else does. what is the true demand for bitcoin.

If I am thinking like a highschooler then you are thinking like a preschooler, and if you do have over 1000 bitcoins why are you not smart enough to put those coins to work for you and create the demand we need. it would take less than 100 of those coins to secure a demand and your investment.

This makes you both blind and stupid franky.

Please get better educated on currency trading and what a demand for a currency is and stop allowing blind stupidity to lead you.

cyberpinoy
the exchanges that are doing at most just 200 coins in one order and the other 99.8% of orders are for dust amounts do not truly show value of ALL bitcoins.

smart people (excluding you obviously) do not value bitcoins based on exchange prices. simply because you cannot realy get fiat into your bank account via exchanges without the AMLKYC or your banks flagging you for 'bitcoin use' and killing ur bank account.

AMLKYC is killing exchanges.. not killing bitcoin. again smart people are now ignoring exchange prices just like they ignored mtgox when that sank to $100 at the start of 2014, yet private trading and other exchanges stuck at the $450 which was the resistance point based on the ROI of spring this year

there are more trades done privately rather then on exchanges.. look it up

one reason is coz people cant get dollar into exchanges easily (thus no one is buying on an exchange to support a price rise on exchanges) they are doing it privately. and those private trade prices are ranging right now $450 - $500+

another reason why exchanges are screwed is that most orders are just dust amounts and people cant be arsed playing with dust amounts. EG putting 200btc on an order creates a wall.

another reason is that exchanges has also lost peoples trust. no one wants to put their whole hoards of coins on an exchange like they did in 2012, instead they just play with dust amounts. i personally have thousands of btc, but im currently only playing with between 1btc-10btc depending on my mood, just for fun and giggles. no way will i put my hoard on an exchange

and by the way there is demand for bitcoin..but you can't even see passed your own nose to see it.

one thing you kind of have right though.. ROI.. is now around the $500+ mark. and many miners are refusing to sell at the crap prices of exchanges. so miners are selling at around the $500 privately if they really need to pay for lifestyle stuff in fiat (via private trading) or they are hoarding.
and guess what, buyers are paying those prices

now back to the things ur getting wrong.. demand.
your still thinking like a highschooler.. try expanding your mind set and research
1) investments
2) unbanked
3) blackmarket
4) porn you wont want the wife seing on ur credit card
5) gambling
6) more fun to trade bitcoins than forex/shares/stocks
7) move funds easier and cheaper than western union/paypal/wire transfer

please read my next line, have a cup of coffee, read it again.. sitback, think about it.. and then try your rebuttles.

people are not buying bitcoins on exchanges, not due to lack of demand for BITCOIN!. but due to lack of desire to do it through exchanges. exchanges are dying. not bitcoin.

As a miner myself with many of mining friends I can tell you this statement is just NOT TRUE. bitcoins price drop is NOT only miners. I know there is 6 pages but please at least read them before you make statements that havebeen disproved 2 or 3 pages ago. dont just jump in and make a blind statement, ESPECIALLY if you are not a full scale miner yourself.

In order to be a full scale miner you must be mining minimum 1 BTC a day. AND not just mine BTC but have a whle system mining for your profits.  I mine script and sha-256, soon i hope to expand my mine to other script coins as well. Once you hit that 1BTC a day income you will see how unsupported and ridiculous your statement is

True hardcore miners only dump what they have to, I myself and many of my mining friends I have only dump what we need to in order to pay our bills which I promise you is not everything we mine. When I first began mining I did dump everything, but .5 BTC a week is not much to dump even if you multiply that 1000 its still only a measly 500 coins a week out of the 25200 that are mined. Miners want exactly what everyone else wants high value on their investment, we are not stupid and all of us understand there is no demand on the coin, and the trigger on its value is its tradable market only, thus why would we cut our nose off to spite our face. we hoard as many as we can your theory would happen when BTC hts 1000 dollars a coin again, one that hits you will see a massive dump. Until then the lower the price goes the more miners have to dump to pay their bills, the higher BTC value the less we have to dump.

If you want us to stop "dumping"then create a demand for the coins we process the transactions for , we are doing our job, now its time the BTC team did theirs.

Dont get to arrogant with the miners remember if not for us your coin will most certainly fail, we are the ones processing your transaction and securing your financial network.

Oh and FYI the ROI on 350 a coin is 6-7 months on the equipment we buy right now at the going prices, we dont like that either, we like a 3 month ROI or less. And since I know you dont know ROI is Return On Investment. means we want to pay our machines off in 3 months or less if we can Now why would we want to do that....... So we can hold the rest until the value increases where we are more comfortable selling but keeping the price above its normal mediums.

Venture Capitalists have invested 250 million in the last two years into Bitcoin companies.
More and more people are learning about Bitcoin every day.
Even Paypal is ready to accept integration.

The only reason the price drops is because Bitcoin is mined and then dumped by miner's.
If the value of Bitcoin drops below what it's worth to mine them -- maybe they will stop selling them
until the price rises. Thereby reaching an equilibrium.

I am pretty sure I heard that amount is around $350. That is why it seems like the price never goes below that.

Ok so maybe you didnt likethe averages that were made, the numbers I got was from taking 5 of the same days each month and averaging them together. FYI just because a website did not exist does not mean it could not get accurate information for the months it was not in existance:0 just so you know


There is no demand for bitcoin, do you know what a demand is, let me explain, When China needs to buy something from the USA it creates a demand for USD. because china can not buy what they need without USA local currency.

So tell me what is it that bitcoin sells, has or does that can only be achieved thru the purchase of bitcoin thus creating a demand for bitcoin....... thats right NOTHING. which means the only demand it has is its tradable market which is no real demand at all.



Private trades neither increase nor decrease the value of bitcoins at all. This statement has no effect on the actual value of bitcoin and should be wiped from your mind as useless nonsense. (when used in conjunction of Bitcoins value)



And this did what for the value of bitcoin? What kind of demand did this create for the future of bitcoin? Oh I checked it shows in the charts Bitcoin hit one if its lowest marks of the year before being crushed by yesterdays low.Now I see what it did for Bitcoins value......NOTHING



You can add localbitcoins to the list of companies I considered in my "Dell Dump" theory thus only strengthening my position.



If you knew anything about currencies and trading you would know the true definition of what a demand is, people buying a currency is not a demand, people having a reason to buy a currency is a demand an even srtonger demand is people HAVING to buy a currency because they have no other choice. Much like Fiat system. if you want something from Australia You must have the AUD if youb want something from China you MUST have CNY if you want something from USA you MUST have USD. What can we buy with only using bitcoins, what does bitcoin have that can only be obtained with bitcoins.....Ahh yes NOTHING.

Thus FINAL LESSON
There is no real "DEMAND" for bitcoin other than its tradable market.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


yesthey could but its not secure enough for a bank they would have to accept the responsibility of securing your Bitcoijns, and since they fear they cant protect them for losses as grand as MtGox suffered its not a chance they want to take, In addition they dont want to embrace their enemy, they run the financial system and they like being the sherrif of fiatingham and dont want any bitcoinhoods interrupting their profitable games of collusion manipulation and profits.

Banks can incorporate BTC or crypto currency in their business in the future. You can deposit your crypto there and convert to fiat.

check the charts again!!
oh and just a little hint.. theres no point using coinbase.. they didnt even exist for 2009, 2010, 2011

for instance lets choose a random date... fuck it.. lets choose today the 20th of the month(might aswell use today so that i cant be accused of picking the highest days of the year based on the charts purposefully, or is it too coincidental for you)
2013
september 20th (today a year ago) $122.90
october 20th (one month later, a year ago) $163.06
november 20th 2013 $572.67

ok, again lets not do specifics for 2012 (by picking 2 specific date. lets let the charts talk for themselves)
so between september 1st 2012 - $9.97 and november 1st 2012 - $10.57
you would think average price was $10.25 for october (or in your mind well under $9.97)

guess what day was the highest price between those date.. was it at the start of september?. was it the middle of september? was it the end of september?...

Noooooo it was october 3rd with $12.89

oh and i used the average price chart on coinDESK

so lets get into details of the paragraphs you also wrote..
supply and demand.. ok your a high schooler.. thanks for the hint into your education level.. imagine an iceburg,, ur only seeing the 1% above water not the 99% underwater that truly makes up what the suppy and demand is made of.

lesson 1.
AMLKYC is stopping people buying coins on exchanges.. BUT.. BIG BUT.. it is not stopping demand

lesson 2
while exchanges play around with orders of atmost 200 bitcoins in any one order, PRIVATE trades are dealing with thousands of coins.

lesson 3
you do know that in may this year bitpay converted $30million of fiat into about 60,000 bitcoins without even having to eat a single order on the exchanges..

lesson 4
you do know that alot more FIAT passed hands on localbitcoins, rather then the total deposits of exchanges right

lesson 5
combine that together and you will realise there is still demand happening.. just that no one wants to link their bank accounts to exchanges no more, and you sheeple are still basing prices on these dying exchanges rather then seeing the global picture of bitcoin.

Disproved

https://coinbase.com/charts

August 2009 BTC value = $0.00
September 2009 BTC value = $0.00
October 2009 BTC value = $0.00

August 2010 BTC value = $0.07
September 2010 BTC value = $0.06
October 2010 BTC value = $0.10

August 2011 BTC value = $10.90
September 2011 BTC value = $5.40
October 2011 BTC value = $3.40

August 2012 BTC value = $10.30
September 2012 BTC value = $11.58
October 2012 BTC value = $10.60

August 2013 BTC value = $113.20
September 2013 BTC value = $128.80
October 2013 BTC value = $133.80

You theory has been disproved 3 out of 5 times so far, for only 2 years of Bitcoin existence was Octobers value higher than September.

For a more honest 12 month fundamental we can see that bitcoin (by basis of true currency fundamentals) is going down down down, the pivot point was this years May 2014 low of 433. We have well surpassed that at 398 yesterday. With the double hammer downwards is the only way this currency should fundamentally go. I stand by my post we will see 90 dollars again by the end of the year, and this time its rebound will be much much MUCH slower than all the "BUBBLE" lovers anticipate. there is NOTHING pushing its price up and everything demolishing the price down. Unless some of these top 10 wallet holders in BTC get off thier ass and come together to formulate a plan to develop a true demand for their investment, those top ten wallets will be worthless by this time next year ranging hack in the cents for Bitcoin.

Why are the banks not scared, because once again they see themselves as the superiors, without even investing a cent, without even trying to manipulate the Bitcoin market, with no collusion they are sitting back watching as we destroy ourselves and laughing the whole time.

Bitcoin hoarders ask yourself if JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs or Barclays thought for one second their financial system was going to fail (or ask when they saw in the past it was going to fail) did they sit on their ass passing telegrams to people pumping the reputation for thier financial system or did they get off their ass and make it so everyone had no choice but to want thier money and accept it?

The crazy thing is in todays world of technology the hoarder can create a demand without exchanging one single bitcoin for fiat. Meaning they can create the tools and the things they need to create the demand without devaluing the coins in any way, all it takes is the brain of a 5 year old and a few hundred bitcoins and Poof the price skyrockets.

The banks are not scared because we as a community are not a true threat, they know we are doing nothing, because at the end of the day the banks know what the BTC community continues to avoid and ignore. In order for any currency to be valuable it needs to have a demand . Supply and demand always are the final rule in any currency's value. The higher the Demand the higher the value, Pure Simple BASIC business economics. And without a demand the banks just laugh at us.

Yes, I've noticed that whole thing about BTC has quieted down since the price of the btc has gone below 600$. When the price got up to 1000$, whole internet was all over it, every post on 4chan was about bitcoin... but now barely few.

I like this theory, but larger miners dumping what they have to is often times more than what I have to dump when I mine, which is essentially 0.  Maybe it was BFL this whole time hahah.

Only small miners who have a lot to worry about dump their coins regularly, Pools and other larger mines dont dump all the coins they make, that would be just stiupid if they did. If I had 2 Phash of mining potential I would solo mine, then expand and begin my own pool, after 6months add another 5 Phash of equipment and begin cloud mining potential for my pool members. and I can promise you with 7 Phash of my own equipment (even if 5Phash is rented out) I would most certainly NOT be dumping my coins daily.

larger mines only dump what they have to. If you have enough mining equipment to bring in 250,000 a month is there a real need to dump them daily ? NO 2500 machines to mine that only cost 60,000 a month in electric thus an additional 50,000 a month living and other expenditures would be plenty the rest are stockpiling for a rainy day.

The real problem is the Dell Dumpers. the merchants who keep dumping coins from their customers. Yes miners do dumpa lot but 3600 a day is very doubtful. they are in this to make the most money they can so dumping more than necessary would not be logical. The merchants tho they have no other choice, they ahve to pay for the products they sell in fiat, they ahve to pay for overhead business costs in fiat and labor in fiat, a 20% profit margin is the best you cn assume from a good online merchant site no matter who you are, so with this you can expect that 80% of the coins (or more) the merchants revolve are being dumped, common BASIC business economics tells us this.

The biggest problem for Bitcoin is there is NO DEMAND, I say it all the time and the blind faith idiots who cant see the truth when it slaps them in the face will realize it when it hits their wallet. No one wants bitcoin, no one has a desire to invest in bitcoin, that craze is long over, and without anything of real importance Bitcoin is attracting nothing. We need merchants sites that can sell products cheaper by using bitcoin, or a place to buy something no one else has but everyone needs and you can only buy it with bitcoin. WE NEED A DEMAND.

As i stated before in this thread the price is dropping rapidly and it has nothing to do with tax conscious investors, at this point the drop to 450 was the usual bi-weekly Dell Dump ( for the definition of Dell Dump scroll up I think page 2,3 or 4 I have it defined) once the price hit 430 the skeptics got out, at420 all the ones holding on to a failed dream took a loss we hnow sit at 400 and as I said by the end of the yearit will be under 200,

1200 dollars a coin, you will be lucky to see 600 a coin again and I dont care how you feel about whathas happened the past 5 years, until a demand is made for this coin it will be stuck at 300 to 400 Highs and 150  lows, once this sets in you will begin loosing miners, and when they go bigger dumps happen with their exit, they will dumpwhat they are holding take the profits they can and get out while the getting is good.

Paypal is in the game fuckers, how is it dying down? lol.

This is like Christmas in September... All in baby

due to AMLKYC rules there is less fiat in the exchanges, so there are is not much on the buy orders..

this has nothing to do with no demand for bitcoin, and nothing to do with merchants selling coins. as these trades are done privately away from exchanges.

the simple fact is that we are valuing 13million coins, based on exchanges that have orders of under 200coins on a order line and in 95% of cases under 1 btc on order lines.

yes i said it 3million coins are not on exchanges, most trades and dumps are caused by as little as 150-200btc.. not 2,000, not 200k not 2mill.. just 200btc

will you sheeple stop following other exchanges drops.. arbitrage of bitcoin for FIAT is not straight forward. so why sheep follow prices from china to bitstamp.. you cant move Yuan from btcchina to dollar at bitstamp within the same hour/day.

come october when average joe puts in the $1k-$2k amounts because its a new financial year, you will see alot of people buying coins. but do not blame merchants or large hoarders.

SO STOP BEING SHEEPLE and wake up.

If merchants does not hold, just sell the BTC they receive. But the more use, the better for the long term.