Bitcoin Foundation | Bitcointalksearch.org

Spekulatius

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Quote from: evoorhees on October 25, 2011, 03:48:28 PM

Gavin - seems like a reasonable idea.

Bitcoin would still have all the advantages of being decentralized (no central server, no office to raid and shut down. etc), but gets the added advantages of a core organization to guide it. Perhaps the core organization will get destroyed by the evil powers, but I'm not sure that'd be incredibly damaging to Bitcoin as a protocol. The community would just grow a new command center when the old was destroyed.

The main danger is if the community trusts such an organization too much. For example- if everyone assumed the client version put out by the organization was trustworthy, then there is serious danger. A group as you propose should probably exist, but the community should remain skeptical of it, and always constructively critical.

+1 true as ever

@ Gavin & Friends : Pls always stay aware of your power.

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Quote from: evoorhees on October 25, 2011, 03:57:36 PM

After a few mins of more thinking...

Perhaps the idea of an "official" group is not wise. Instead, the core dev team could create an organization, with special logo and name. This organization would be the de facto official group, but only so long as it held up its reputation. At all times, other groups can form and compete for "de facto officialness."

In essence then, this would just be a Non-profit, spontaneously organized by individuals. If multiple such organizations sprout up, then each community member can support whomever they wish.

Think of it like a market for competing representatives. No group official by law, but any group official by market sentiment. We would see one group come to dominate the sentiment, but Bitcoin would not be irrevocably tied to it.

No group should be granted an explicit monopoly... but an implicit market-derived monopoly would not bother me.

+1 to this!

World

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here is https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-bitcoin-foundation-113400

Coinabul

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Coinabul - Gold Unbarred

I'd love to revisit this idea, any thoughts? Developments?

Jutarul

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The idea of a bitcoin foundation is a great one. However, it's mission has to be carefully adjusted otherwise we have corruption at our hands in no time.

E.g. I don't think the foundation should do source code development. Just let the core developer create their "own" business. Could even be for-profit! The certification is less of an issue.

labestiol

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Quote from: Gavin Andresen on October 25, 2011, 03:13:25 PM

However, over the last six months or so it has become obvious to me that the rest of the world isn't set up to interact with a radically decentralized system like Bitcoin

The time of your post and the bottom of BTC/USD are only a few days off, you're a good market indicator Gavin !
Now tell us, what's your sentiment right now ? Could be useful to time the top of the current rally Cheesy

paulie_w

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Quote from: Gavin Andresen on May 07, 2012, 04:48:45 PM

I said:

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on October 25, 2011, 03:13:25 PM

To get the conversation started, here are some functions I think a Bitcoin Foundation could perform:

Interact with the legal system, where a centralized entity is needed: for example, to hold the Bitcoin trademark, own/control the bitcoin.org domain name, etc.
Act as a central library for accurate information about Bitcoin, so journalists and policymakers have an 'official' place to learn about Bitcoin.
Collect donations to fund infrastructure necessary for Bitcoin's growth (organize regular developers' conferences or get-togethers maybe? pay for development of cross-implementation testing tools? pay core developers' salaries? create a certification/testing program for Bitcoin implementations? create a central clearinghouse for information about legal issues surrounding Bitcoin across the world?)

I like decentralized approaches, because failures are less catastrophic and because I think smaller, focused organizations are more effective than big, try-to-be-everything-to-everybody organizations.

So I'm happy that the Cryptocurrency Legal Advocacy Group is working on legal issues, starting with figuring out what the issues are.

And I'm happy that LoveBitcoins have been starting PR/Marketing efforts for Bitcoin.

Today I created the Bitcoin Testing Project to tackle some infrastructure needs that I think are being ignored (rigorous quality assurance / testing):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/announce-bitcoin-testing-project-80019

gavin have you ever read Tim Wu's book The Master Switch? check that out and please steer us away from this kind of situation.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/glbse-send-to-charity-92684

Possibly related. Both the bitcoin foundation and clag can be somewhat funded in future through entirely free market means

Gavin Andresen

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Chief Scientist

I said:

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on October 25, 2011, 03:13:25 PM

To get the conversation started, here are some functions I think a Bitcoin Foundation could perform:

Interact with the legal system, where a centralized entity is needed: for example, to hold the Bitcoin trademark, own/control the bitcoin.org domain name, etc.
Act as a central library for accurate information about Bitcoin, so journalists and policymakers have an 'official' place to learn about Bitcoin.
Collect donations to fund infrastructure necessary for Bitcoin's growth (organize regular developers' conferences or get-togethers maybe? pay for development of cross-implementation testing tools? pay core developers' salaries? create a certification/testing program for Bitcoin implementations? create a central clearinghouse for information about legal issues surrounding Bitcoin across the world?)

I like decentralized approaches, because failures are less catastrophic and because I think smaller, focused organizations are more effective than big, try-to-be-everything-to-everybody organizations.

So I'm happy that the Cryptocurrency Legal Advocacy Group is working on legal issues, starting with figuring out what the issues are.

And I'm happy that LoveBitcoins have been starting PR/Marketing efforts for Bitcoin.

Today I created the Bitcoin Testing Project to tackle some infrastructure needs that I think are being ignored (rigorous quality assurance / testing):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/announce-bitcoin-testing-project-80019

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: Otoh on March 12, 2012, 10:32:31 AM

Quote from: Mageant on March 11, 2012, 12:25:40 PM

Apparently a forum member has certain contacts to a person or foundation that might be willing to fund a "Bitcoin Foundation".
Please check out this thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/making-a-btc-pitch-to-a-billionaire-68162

I'm a neighbor of someone who has an up & running NPO charitable foundation, see my OP in the topic above for more details on it, I'm friends with a couple of people who are also friends with this person so can pretty well guarantee that any proposal would reach & be considered by this person rather than just being dealt with by the foundation's board, I have another friend who at my instigation contacted this foundation & has obtained multi year funding for projects that she set up, as this foundation is a NPO it will only donate to NPOs though the person behind it is much more flexible if they decide that they personally wish to support something though I feel the best way to approach would be formally with a grant application made to the foundation, but along with recommendations from 2 of this persons friends, I have permission from 1 so far & am planning to ask the 2nd once I have completed quite a big favor that someone who works for him asked me to organize for this guy - I think he will be sympathetic

God Speed!

Otoh

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Quote from: Mageant on March 11, 2012, 12:25:40 PM

Apparently a forum member has certain contacts to a person or foundation that might be willing to fund a "Bitcoin Foundation".
Please check out this thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/making-a-btc-pitch-to-a-billionaire-68162

I'm a neighbor of someone who has an up & running NPO charitable foundation, see my OP in the topic above for more details on it, I'm friends with a couple of people who are also friends with this person so can pretty well guarantee that any proposal would reach & be considered by this person rather than just being dealt with by the foundation's board, I have another friend who at my instigation contacted this foundation & has obtained multi year funding for projects that she set up (I'm actually on the board of the NP association that this friend set up to apply for funding, but mostly just to help make up the numbers), as this foundation is a NPO it will only donate to NPOs though the person behind it is much more flexible if they decide that they personally wish to support something though I feel the best way to approach would be formally with a grant application made to the foundation, but along with recommendations from 2 of this persons friends, I have permission from 1 so far & am planning to ask the 2nd once I have completed quite a big favor that someone who works for him asked me to organize for this guy - I think he will be sympathetic

Mageant

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Apparently a forum member has certain contacts to a person or foundation that might be willing to fund a "Bitcoin Foundation".
Please check out this thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/making-a-btc-pitch-to-a-billionaire-68162

mndrix

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Software Freedom Conservancy seems like a perfect fit for what we're trying to accomplish. It's a non-profit designed to interact with the legal system, accept tax-deductible donations, hold copyrights, etc on behalf on open source projects. They take care of most of the legal headaches so we can focus on software.

A few projects under the SFC umbrella are:

Boost
BusyBox
Darcs
Git
jQuery
Mercurial
PyPy

It should be easy to start this way and grow into a separate Bitcoin Foundation later, if that's ever needed.

AlexWaters

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Twitter:@watersNYC

My 2 bits

I think a Bitcoin foundation would be awesome, and is necessary for Bitcoin to scale.

I also think the decentralization aspect of Bitcoin is important for the protocol, but not the community / legal side of things.

ArticMine

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Monero Core Team

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on October 25, 2011, 03:13:25 PM

Bitcoin is revolutionary because it is decentralized, with no single point of control or failure.

However, over the last six months or so it has become obvious to me that the rest of the world isn't set up to interact with a radically decentralized system like Bitcoin, and I think forming a not-for-profit organization will be a positive step towards Bitcoin's long-term success.

I'm posting this to see if there is a consensus on what a Bitcoin Foundation should be.

To get the conversation started, here are some functions I think a Bitcoin Foundation could perform:

Interact with the legal system, where a centralized entity is needed: for example, to hold the Bitcoin trademark, own/control the bitcoin.org domain name, etc.
Act as a central library for accurate information about Bitcoin, so journalists and policymakers have an 'official' place to learn about Bitcoin.
Collect donations to fund infrastructure necessary for Bitcoin's growth (organize regular developers' conferences or get-togethers maybe? pay for development of cross-implementation testing tools? pay core developers' salaries? create a certification/testing program for Bitcoin implementations? create a central clearinghouse for information about legal issues surrounding Bitcoin across the world?)

Other not-for-profit organizations that could be emulated:

The Anti-Phishing Working Group (the APWG's chairman, David Jevans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jevans, is willing to help make a Bitcoin Foundation happen).
The Tor Project
The Apache Software Foundation

Are there others that work well, or are there examples of what NOT to do? Assuming there is rough consensus that a Bitcoin Foundation is a good idea, I would like to get something imperfect up and running quickly, with the expectation that it will evolve over time.

I like the idea. David Jevens is the kind of person one wants on board by the way. One suggestion is to encourage the creation of sister organisations in different jurisdictions that are loosely, in that they share similar objectives, but are not legally related. This is similar to the relationship between the Free Software Foundation (FSF) and its sister organisations Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE), Free Software Foundation Latin America (FSFLA), FSF France, Free Software Foundation of India etc. The idea is to avoid a single point of failure at the Foundation / Association / Organisation level.

phelix

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I would like to suggest this as a mission for the bitcoin foundation:

bitcoin is by far the most powerful distributed computing network in the world. we should claim this record. it would bring publicity and convince a lot of people that bitcoin is much more than a game.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-guinness-world-records-29722

BitcoinRedLight

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Quote from: nighteyes on October 28, 2011, 01:57:02 PM

Ive been on em,taking em to task....but I would disagree this is about being rich....its about hoarding or not putting money to work.
They dont have to commit funds right away ala 'give to some org who really is Bruce Wagner'.
What Im looking for is like Tradehill....a step to trust the new org..and a commitment that says 'if the org allows my money to actually be put to work for long-term health, then Im there'.

So what we need is not discussion...but who is willing to be on the board of directors(since they are the ones who determine what the org actually does) or who is willing to volunteer and what can they provide?

Such as Im an accountant, and I know for sure we dont need lawyers to set this up. For my industry, I think the one most qualified should be on the board, and if Im that person, then Im willing. I also am willing to go for a background check(and pay for it), which I think should be part of the process.

Excellent!

Though it's a tall order to get these holders on board. Bruce did a 'three-prong' on many of their brains, and they have already moved into their imaginary mansions.

nighteyes

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Quote from: BitcoinRedLight on October 28, 2011, 01:14:54 PM

As far as I can see, nobody is taking these guys to task.
It is irrational to think that guys with no stake in the game are going to keep falling on their sword, day after day, just because Bitcoin is a great idea (which it definitely is) and they are idealistic. Idealists have to eat too.
Talk is cheap. The guys who have the Bitcoins need to pony up and get behind Gavin with a serious effing fund.

Ive been on em,taking em to task....but I would disagree this is about being rich....its about hoarding or not putting money to work.
They dont have to commit funds right away ala 'give to some org who really is Bruce Wagner'.
What Im looking for is like Tradehill....a step to trust the new org..and a commitment that says 'if the org allows my money to actually be put to work for long-term health, then Im there'.

So what we need is not discussion...but who is willing to be on the board of directors(since they are the ones who determine what the org actually does) or who is willing to volunteer and what can they provide?

Such as Im an accountant, and I know for sure we dont need lawyers to set this up. For my industry, I think the one most qualified should be on the board, and if Im that person, then Im willing. I also am willing to go for a background check(and pay for it), which I think should be part of the process.

BitcoinRedLight

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Quote from: BitPay Business Solutions on October 27, 2011, 09:51:30 PM

There is a real need for development, and most importantly TESTING, of all the core bitcoin code. for this Gavin is 100% right that there needs to be some pooled funding and infrastructure.

Ok fine, but what do the donors get for their donations to the pool? Well that's where the pooled marketing comes in. Just like your Chamber of Commerce promotes the city's member businesses as a whole, or an industry trade association promotes its members as a whole, the bitcoin association can promote its members' businesses.

Want to grow the whole bitcoin user base from 50,000 to 500,000 by running some ads? Or maybe setup a few more billboards? Well, become a member, donate to the pool, and your business will be included. It's not about power at all. It's about promoting our mutual best interests, which includes bitcoin adoption by a much larger group of people, and a solid infrastructure to support it.

Good comments.

In my post I typed the word power thus: 'power', because I know it's not power that Gavin seeks. He simply wants a stronger Bitcoin, and that is laudable. Probably "centralized promotion/information" is more accurate. However, it will still need to proclaim some measure of authority...which is fine. Go for it.

My main point was that it's not core. At the core is trust.

In fact, in the final analysis, trust is beyond the core thing, it's the only thing.

It is trust that has been blown out and until that is restored, vis-a-vis infrastructure, it's lipstick on a pig. But who is going to make that happen in a serious way? It MUST come from the guys who have benefited the most from Bitcoin and who also have the most to gain from greater Bitcoin success.

As far as I can see, nobody is taking these guys to task.

It is irrational to think that guys with no stake in the game are going to keep falling on their sword, day after day, just because Bitcoin is a great idea (which it definitely is) and they are idealistic. Idealists have to eat too.

Talk is cheap. The guys who have the Bitcoins need to pony up and get behind Gavin with a serious effing fund.

teukon

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Quote from: becoin on October 28, 2011, 04:34:23 AM

Quote from: teukon on October 27, 2011, 06:54:29 PM

The bitcoin trademark holder? Who holds the trademark for "internet"? What about trademarks in different countries?

The World Wide Web has no trademark and logo because it is the only one on this Planet, while above mentioned organizations have.

My point was simply that, for some terms, a trademark is not appropriate. Where a specific trademark office (I don't know the term) would draw the line is not so important (I very much doubt they all agree).

Quote from: becoin on October 28, 2011, 04:34:23 AM

Just imagine what chaos the Web will be if such organizations as ICANN and IANA don't exist? For instance, what even greater mess would be the transition from IPv4 to IPv6? With its expansion and evolution the core of bitcoin protocol will also need to change overtime. There are some brilliant ideas tested in the alternative cryptocurrencies that must be implemented in bitcoin as well. I'm quite confident there will be even more in near future. I'd also like to ask the all those guys that started their own alternative blockchain, please give your helping hand to Gavin and unite around bitcoin. This is a 50 trillion market that will change fiat to bitcoin back and forth many times. There is bread and butter (and caviar) for all of you. If you don't like a certain person to represent you in this Foundation just vote for another one.

Now, bitcoin should be decentralized as much as possible, I'm all for that. But decentralization is not anarchy! We still need organization(s) to coordinate and support our decentralized efforts!!! All such organizations must be build and run in such a way that even forcefully dismantled to not negatively affect the functioning of bitcoin network.

I feel this takes things too far in the direction of centralisation. If we had an unquestioned "King of the internet" then changes like IPv4 to IPv6 would be much easier. But changes like global internet filtering would also be easier. There are undoubted pros and cons to great central power. Those who advocate less central power must accept both the good and the bad that comes with this.

Yes, Bitcoin will want/need changes with time, but as time goes by this will (and rightly should) become harder and harder to do! A guy at the top that can simply apply changes to the protocol at whim is exactly what I would like to see Bitcoin evolve away from. Changing the transaction limit for example really should require much planning and organisation of the most powerful Bitcoin-related businesses and the consequential changes to the existing clients and mining software would have to be accepted by very many people (almost a forced global referendum). If a similar change to make Bitcoin inflationary were proposed then it should fail to make it through this process. I would rather see Bitcoin wither and die due to lack of organisation than to succeed and succumb to central authority.

I agree that a "Bitcoin Foundation" would be very useful at this stage to "coordinate and support our decentralized efforts" and I'm very grateful to the continued efforts of people like Gavin in helping and guiding Bitcoin at this very early stage. However, I feel that if such an organisation does its job well then Bitcoin will have no need for such support in the future.

I agree that such organisations should be built and run such that their sudden removal will not hurt the network. But more than this, such organisations, suddenly working hard to deform or destroy Bitcoin, should fail.

Provided I agree with the constitution of a proposed "Bitcoin Foundation" and the key members remain people I trust then I offer my support.

Topic: Bitcoin Foundation (Read 17995 times)