Bitcoin Foundation receives cease and desist order from California - page 16.

N12

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Activity: 1610

Merit: 1010

Quote from: lucif on June 23, 2013, 12:55:20 PM

Haha, that was funny =)

However BF is useless vip club imho. Feds may shutdown them. I see no impact on bitcoin network at all.

They do pay the Bitcoin lead developer's salary.

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

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Quote from: klee on June 23, 2013, 12:52:46 PM

Quote from: jgarzik on June 23, 2013, 12:49:20 PM

Quote from: BCB on June 23, 2013, 12:39:09 PM

Ask the parents of dead Iraqi children if they thought the war on terror fought in there country was legal and/or valid.

The FED and now California are declaring war. Most other states will fall in line.

Individual prosecution is next.

Let's try to be mature adults and keep some perspective.

Recent FinCEN guidances, DHS/etc. seizures, IRS/GAO discussions have all been in line with existing US law. See my State of the Coin 2011 presentation and earlier forum discussions. It has always been known that US individuals and companies must... do the obvious and follow US law. For US bitcoin exchanges, for example, that likely means federal + 48 state licensing. Enforcement actions like Liberty Reserve or Mutum Sigilium seemed to be clearly outside existing, known regulations. You gotta expect law enforcement to... enforce the laws.

This California letter is so zany because it does not fit existing law or facts In My Opinion As A Non-Lawyer.

Each regulatory action needs careful consideration within the context of its country. "ZOMG GOVERNMENT DEAD IRAQI CHILDREN" is about as far from thoughtful consideration as one can get.

Bitcoin is big, and we are getting a lot of regulator scrutiny right now, worldwide.

With all the respect to your technical skills I really doubt your political ones.
This from a non US European Balkan guy with centuries of Byzantine politics f@ckin up the continent.
You people there are so naive...sorry for my tone, I really like most of you but it has begun and you still negotiate!

BF is Goethe's Faust...
Oh Europe! What a dirty old bitch...

lucif

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Clown prophet

Haha, that was funny =)

However BF is useless vip club imho. Feds may shutdown them. I see no impact on bitcoin network at all.

davout

legendary

Activity: 1372

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1davout

Fun, we shall have some.

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

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Quote from: jgarzik on June 23, 2013, 12:49:20 PM

Quote from: BCB on June 23, 2013, 12:39:09 PM

Ask the parents of dead Iraqi children if they thought the war on terror fought in there country was legal and/or valid.

The FED and now California are declaring war. Most other states will fall in line.

Individual prosecution is next.

Let's try to be mature adults and keep some perspective.

Recent FinCEN guidances, DHS/etc. seizures, IRS/GAO discussions have all been in line with existing US law. See my State of the Coin 2011 presentation and earlier forum discussions. It has always been known that US individuals and companies must... do the obvious and follow US law. For US bitcoin exchanges, for example, that likely means federal + 48 state licensing. Enforcement actions like Liberty Reserve or Mutum Sigilium seemed to be clearly outside existing, known regulations. You gotta expect law enforcement to... enforce the laws.

This California letter is so zany because it does not fit existing law or facts In My Opinion As A Non-Lawyer.

Each regulatory action needs careful consideration within the context of its country. "ZOMG GOVERNMENT DEAD IRAQI CHILDREN" is about as far from thoughtful consideration as one can get.

Bitcoin is big, and we are getting a lot of regulator scrutiny right now, worldwide.

With all the respect to your technical skills I really doubt your political ones.
This from a non US European Balkan guy with centuries of Byzantine politics f@ckin up the continent.
You people there are so naive...sorry for my tone, I really like most of you but it has begun and you still negotiate!

BCB

vip

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1002

BCJ

jgarzik

I am a mature adult and this is my perspective.

Thank you very much.

jgarzik

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1100

Quote from: BCB on June 23, 2013, 12:39:09 PM

Ask the parents of dead Iraqi children if they thought the war on terror fought in there country was legal and/or valid.

The FED and now California are declaring war. Most other states will fall in line.

Individual prosecution is next.

Let's try to be mature adults and keep some perspective.

Recent FinCEN guidances, DHS/etc. seizures, IRS/GAO discussions have all been in line with existing US law. See my State of the Coin 2011 presentation and earlier forum discussions. It has always been known that US individuals and companies must... do the obvious and follow US law. For US bitcoin exchanges, for example, that likely means federal + 48 state licensing. Enforcement actions like Liberty Reserve or Mutum Sigilium seemed to be clearly outside existing, known regulations. You gotta expect law enforcement to... enforce the laws.

This California letter is so zany because it does not fit existing law or facts In My Opinion As A Non-Lawyer.

Each regulatory action needs careful consideration within the context of its country. "ZOMG GOVERNMENT DEAD IRAQI CHILDREN" is about as far from thoughtful consideration as one can get.

Bitcoin is big, and we are getting a lot of regulator scrutiny right now, worldwide.

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: BCB on June 23, 2013, 12:39:09 PM

Guys,

I don't think it matters what we think.

Shots have been fired. Battle line are being drawn.

Ask the parents of dead Iraqi children if they thought the war on terror fought in there country was legal and/or valid.

The FED and now California are declaring war. Most other states will fall in line.

Individual prosecution is next.

At last one with clear view!
Someone said once in the Law subforum (can't remember who or find the post) that in Bitcoin business there are only 3 models:
1) Silk Road like
2) Regulated (and always be 'alert' when your masters change the rules of the game again)
3) Go offshore as stealth as possible

We all can see where it will end...

BCB

vip

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1002

BCJ

Guys,

I don't think it matters what we think.

Shots have been fired. Battle line are being drawn.

Ask the parents of dead Iraqi children if they thought the war on terror fought in there country was legal and/or valid.

The FED and now California are declaring war. Most other states will fall in line.

Individual prosecution is next.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: Mike Hearn on June 23, 2013, 12:21:18 PM

California DFI is notorious for its dysfunction and incompetence. Read this for a taste:

http://www.xconomy.com/san-francisco/2012/02/02/facecash-founder-claims-new-financial-regulation-is-unconstitutional/

As the Foundation is clearly not a money transmitter, this will go away but it will stand as a monument to the lazyness of the bureaucrats involved. It would have taken, what, one afternoons research to find out that this complaint is meritless? But they didn't bother.

Everyone here knows how bad this state is. Didn't anyone think of that prior to holding the conference here? Out of 50 other places to go they keep coming back to California. Is it because Roger Ver has an outlet here? Any startup business working with money should know to stay out of the land of fruits and nuts. Read the daily paper.

CoinHoarder

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1026

In Cryptocoins I Trust

Maybe they think the Bitcoin Foundation was involved in "money transmission" because of the working Bitcoin ATM at the conference Huh

But, technically that wasn't the Bitcoin Foundation.. it was whoever owns the ATM..

meanig

hero member

Activity: 531

Merit: 501

Quote

BitCoin Foundation
71 Columbia Street, Suite 300
Seattle, WA 98104

The fact they couldn't even write Bitcoin properly tells us all we need to know about their level of understanding. F**king amateurs!

Mike Hearn

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1134

California DFI is notorious for its dysfunction and incompetence. Read this for a taste:

http://www.xconomy.com/san-francisco/2012/02/02/facecash-founder-claims-new-financial-regulation-is-unconstitutional/

As the Foundation is clearly not a money transmitter, this will go away but it will stand as a monument to the lazyness of the bureaucrats involved. It would have taken, what, one afternoons research to find out that this complaint is meritless? But they didn't bother.

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Quote from: jgarzik on June 23, 2013, 12:13:00 PM

Watch this one closely, people. Unlike other recent FinCEN guidance and regulatory comments, and law enforcement actions, this action from California does not fit the facts nor existing US law.

This simply shows a misunderstanding of what bitcoin is.

tl;dr: California thinks Bitcoin Foundation "runs bitcoin."

LOL, that's SO retarded is almost unbelievable.

First thing I thought they heard about the Bitcoin Foundation having an Avalon Batch #1 and thus they are considered a MSB as per the latest FinCEN guidelines, in any case the true reasons must be the most retarded one... And now I see that it has to be that Califormia thinks BF "runs Bitcoin", nothing more retarded than that.

America, you never stop surprising me Grin

jgarzik

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1100

Watch this one closely, people. Unlike other recent FinCEN guidance and regulatory comments, and law enforcement actions, this action from California does not fit the facts nor existing US law.

This simply shows a misunderstanding of what bitcoin is.

tl;dr: California thinks Bitcoin Foundation "runs bitcoin."

TheFootMan

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Quote from: jgarzik on June 23, 2013, 12:04:35 PM

tl;dr California thinks the Bitcoin Foundation controls bitcoin.

Clearly incorrect.

jgarzik, you're a smart and intelligent man. There's lot of officials that will fuck with you and others in the foundation as they see fit. They don't care whether they're in the right or not.

justusranvier

legendary

Activity: 1400

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Good thing Gavin moved to Australia, right?

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: jgarzik on June 23, 2013, 12:04:35 PM

tl;dr California thinks the Bitcoin Foundation controls bitcoin.

Clearly incorrect.

Of course, but they don't know that. This really isn't a bad thing. It's a test case. Good, get it over with.

jgarzik

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1100

tl;dr California thinks the Bitcoin Foundation controls bitcoin.

Clearly incorrect.

AliceWonder

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

I'm guessing PayPal is behind this.
Maybe even Google with their Ripple crap.

Topic: Bitcoin Foundation receives cease and desist order from California - page 16. (Read 48394 times)