Bitcoin Foundation receives cease and desist order from California - page 8.

jjdub7

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Quote from: charleshoskinson on June 23, 2013, 11:14:33 AM

Quote

Whats the big effing deal? The notice says "MAY be involved..." Bitcoin foundation is clearly not a money transmitter. The notice requests a response, which I am sure the Bitcoin foundation will no doubt easily provide. Case closed. Nothing to see here.

What if a small business without access to counsel receives such a notice? This is government bullying and is a big deal.

I feel like the BTC Foundation could easily defend this in court without a trial lawyer...

franky1

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Quote from: td services on June 25, 2013, 03:34:03 PM

I'm real curious as to the logic of how a "Liberty Dollar" is legally different from a "Linden Dollar", a Hong Kong Dollar, a Canadian Dollar, or an Australian Dollar.

liberty dollar was a physical coin that was put into circulation as a counterfeit of a US dollar coin. it held the $ symbol etc which is trade marks of government.

linden dollars are ingame credits

hong kong dollar canadian dollar australian dollar are bank notes or coins of the country mentioned in the names. the design of the coins/bank notes are tailored to that country to make it obvious to which country they are owned by. which helps to show which country they are legal tender of. EG you cant pay a court fine in US with hong kong dollars as the hong kong dollars are legal tender of hong kong , not the US.. and vice versa

if owned by a government copying or selling a replica without authorisation is called counterfeiting and illegal. (EG liberty dollar replicating US Dollar)

if only the liberty dollar used an L symbol instead of $, then it would have been more regarded as monopoly money or fresh new currency as oppose to a US dollar coin

td services

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black swan hunter

I'm real curious as to the logic of how a "Liberty Dollar" is legally different from a "Linden Dollar", a Hong Kong Dollar, a Canadian Dollar, or an Australian Dollar.

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: TECSHARE on June 25, 2013, 12:23:18 PM

Quote from: franky1 on June 23, 2013, 03:40:31 PM

Quote from: Severian on June 23, 2013, 03:27:30 PM

If you want to know what their endgame for Bitcoin is, look at the history of the Liberty Dollar:

Quote

'Liberty Dollar' Creator Awaits His Fate Behind Bars - NYTimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/us/liberty-dollar-creator-awaits-his-fate-behind-bars.html?pagewanted=all

DO NOT compare bitcoin with liberty dollar.
the issue with liberty dollar was the fact that the metal coins were made to replicate a actual FIAT dollar coin. which comes under counterfeiting laws.

bitcoin is not a counterfeit of FIAT. its a totally unrelated and new currency. (well the thailand authorities could take BTC symbol a bit personal. but its still not as bad as the liberty dollar)

I have been following NORFED/Liberty Dollar since around 2006, and Liberty Dollars actually lead me to Bitcoin strangely enough. The entire reason NORFED was created was that it serves as a protest and alternative to the federal reserve. Why would a group protesting the federal reserve make currency intended to be copies of federal reserve notes? They wouldn't, and didn't. If you bother to look at the rounds Liberty Dollar issued, you would NEVER confuse them for federal reserve notes or coinage issued by the treasury. They operated in PUBLIC since 1998. Prosecutors hadn't noticed this until just recently? Does the treasury stamp coins with a website? Do they even make coinage that size? There are a lot of requirements of similitude in order for counterfeiting to be considered. Liberty Dollar did not meet these requirements. They were railroaded.

This is a PERFECT example of how the "rule of law" only works for the status quo and the powers that be. Anyone who tries to change the system within the system better watch out, because they already slipped a noose around your neck, they are just waiting until they find undesirable but legal activity to pull the trap door out from under you and declare you a "criminal". We are all subject to this.

As a former Liberty Dollar RCO, I can tell you that TECSHARE is 100% correct. Not only did Bernard and LD not violate any similitude laws, counterfeiting requires the INTENT to defraud the public. Bernard had hired a very well known attorney to make sure he WASN'T violating any similitude laws. So how can anyone say he intended to violate a law when he paid someone a ton of money to make sure he wasn't??

It took a completely bullshit stacked jury to twist around that simple logic. It remains as a great proof that there is absolutely NO justice whatsoever in federal courtrooms.

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: AliceWonder on June 25, 2013, 09:58:02 AM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on June 25, 2013, 08:43:20 AM

Quote from: AliceWonder on June 25, 2013, 07:58:11 AM

I for one will be writing letters to my elected representatives explaining why bitcoin is important to me as a Californian.

Begging for your freedom is a waste of time in America. They don't give a shit about you or why you think bitcoin is important. Wake up! You're a slave and don't even know it.

Letters are more important than people realize.

First of all, it is not uncommon for an aide to a politician to have very little knowledge on a subject. When they read the letters, it can inspire them. It doesn't always, but it can. These interns are often still at the psychological stage where they believe they are there for the good of the people and they can have an influence on the politician.

Secondly, it is not uncommon for politicians to count letters received to see which issues are important to the people.

You're naive. Tell you what - do what I did 10 years ago and start getting involved. Go and make your calls, knock on doors, get people to sign petitions, register people to vote, support candidates, yada yada yada...

You need to get jaded in that shit first before you can understand that the America you were taught in school is essentially a pile of bullshit. You have no rights and no parasite in government is going to help you.

TECSHARE

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First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: franky1 on June 23, 2013, 03:40:31 PM

Quote from: Severian on June 23, 2013, 03:27:30 PM

If you want to know what their endgame for Bitcoin is, look at the history of the Liberty Dollar:

Quote

'Liberty Dollar' Creator Awaits His Fate Behind Bars - NYTimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/us/liberty-dollar-creator-awaits-his-fate-behind-bars.html?pagewanted=all

DO NOT compare bitcoin with liberty dollar.
the issue with liberty dollar was the fact that the metal coins were made to replicate a actual FIAT dollar coin. which comes under counterfeiting laws.

bitcoin is not a counterfeit of FIAT. its a totally unrelated and new currency. (well the thailand authorities could take BTC symbol a bit personal. but its still not as bad as the liberty dollar)

I have been following NORFED/Liberty Dollar since around 2006, and Liberty Dollars actually lead me to Bitcoin strangely enough. The entire reason NORFED was created was that it serves as a protest and alternative to the federal reserve. Why would a group protesting the federal reserve make currency intended to be copies of federal reserve notes? They wouldn't, and didn't. If you bother to look at the rounds Liberty Dollar issued, you would NEVER confuse them for federal reserve notes or coinage issued by the treasury. They operated in PUBLIC since 1998. Prosecutors hadn't noticed this until just recently? Does the treasury stamp coins with a website? Do they even make coinage that size? There are a lot of requirements of similitude in order for counterfeiting to be considered. Liberty Dollar did not meet these requirements. They were railroaded.

This is a PERFECT example of how the "rule of law" only works for the status quo and the powers that be. Anyone who tries to change the system within the system better watch out, because they already slipped a noose around your neck, they are just waiting until they find undesirable but legal activity to pull the trap door out from under you and declare you a "criminal". We are all subject to this.

Rampion

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d5000

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^^ Fucking Tea Party dumbasses. You also think Ayn Rand is a philosopher? LOL.

QuestionAuthority

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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Top 9 reasons why California sucks: http://www.newsrealblog.com/2011/02/14/top-9-reasons-california-sucks/

molecular

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Quote from: cryptoanarchist on June 25, 2013, 08:43:20 AM

Quote from: AliceWonder on June 25, 2013, 07:58:11 AM

I for one will be writing letters to my elected representatives explaining why bitcoin is important to me as a Californian.

Begging for your freedom is a waste of time in America. They don't give a shit about you or why you think bitcoin is important. Wake up! You're a slave and don't even know it.

Minor Miner

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Be A Digital Miner

Quote from: Rassah on June 24, 2013, 03:16:10 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on June 24, 2013, 03:09:48 PM

If you're audited by the IRS, and I hope you never are, the way to solve it is to lawyer up, get your paperwork gathered and go in shooting. That will lessen your costs. Doing nothing but saying, "yep' I did everything right" on a response letter without providing proof is the way to get a full judgement against you for unpaid taxes and possibly jail time. Not a good plan.

I'm sure that applies to taxes, as a he-said-she-said kinda dispute about revenues that needs to be resolved, but this seems pretty cut and dry. They said Bitcoin Foundation does the functions of a money transmitter. Bitcoin Foundation does no such thing. Not even close. There isn't even anything for TBF to show to prove that they are not. Unless these bureaucrats come up with something like "Bitcoin Foundation is hiding the evidence that they are transmitting money!" there is quite literally nothing for TBF to show or prove...
right?

You do not seem to understand that costs of "defending" your innocent ass. States and the federal government have NO lawyer bills to pay and they just keep filing and you HAVE to keep defending or they get a judgment against you. More americans need to be sued by their government for some BS and hear a lawyer that you have just dumped $450 per hour on for the last year tell you "it is cheaper if you just pay what they are now asking than my fees to defend".

Rassah

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Quote from: dserrano5 on June 25, 2013, 04:00:05 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

-> hard fork (and everyone can stick with the best version of Bitcoin)

Then they allow taxes to be paid using their-fork-coins. Sheeps go buy those (whoa! government endorsed bitcoin!!) and their fork explodes in value, then we are left as the weird minority holding useless coins.

Depends on if miners can be convinced to stick with the GovCoin fork, instead of switching to the hard fork. If they don't switch to the GovCoin fork (and miners are global, so what do they care about mining some country's coins?), then either no one will mine this GovCoin's blockchain, or so few will mine it that it will be 51% attacked by rogue miners into oblivion.

AliceWonder

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Quote from: cryptoanarchist on June 25, 2013, 08:43:20 AM

Quote from: AliceWonder on June 25, 2013, 07:58:11 AM

I for one will be writing letters to my elected representatives explaining why bitcoin is important to me as a Californian.

Begging for your freedom is a waste of time in America. They don't give a shit about you or why you think bitcoin is important. Wake up! You're a slave and don't even know it.

Letters are more important than people realize.

First of all, it is not uncommon for an aide to a politician to have very little knowledge on a subject. When they read the letters, it can inspire them. It doesn't always, but it can. These interns are often still at the psychological stage where they believe they are there for the good of the people and they can have an influence on the politician.

Secondly, it is not uncommon for politicians to count letters received to see which issues are important to the people.

bigdude

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Dolphins Finance TRUSTED FINANCE

Quote from: Rassah on June 24, 2013, 08:13:08 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Here you go:

Downfall of TBF: Hitler receives cease and desist order from California.

That was f'in hilarious! Thanks Grin

LOL'd so hard

And even funnier is the comment from this guy:

"Ronald Wiplinger
welcher idiot hat das in den untertitlen uebersetzt? which idiot translated the text into the sub titles?"

I can only imagine him thinking WTF is going on LOLZ

jgarzik

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Quote from: virtualmaster on June 25, 2013, 12:31:40 AM

Pressure on BF -> BF is cooperating with regulators -> developers are cooperating with regulators -> small changes in the client to better track transactions -> changes in the protocol to roll back unwanted transactions

This conspiracy theory is ignorant of (a) how open source works and (b) how the dev team works.

Rampion

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Quote from: cryptoanarchist on June 25, 2013, 08:43:20 AM

Quote from: AliceWonder on June 25, 2013, 07:58:11 AM

I for one will be writing letters to my elected representatives explaining why bitcoin is important to me as a Californian.

Begging for your freedom is a waste of time in America. They don't give a shit about you or why you think bitcoin is important. Wake up! You're a slave and don't even know it.

I guess he picked his nick "AliceinWonderland" for a reason

Cheesy

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: AliceWonder on June 25, 2013, 07:58:11 AM

I for one will be writing letters to my elected representatives explaining why bitcoin is important to me as a Californian.

Begging for your freedom is a waste of time in America. They don't give a shit about you or why you think bitcoin is important. Wake up! You're a slave and don't even know it.

AliceWonder

full member

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Merit: 100

Quote from: mjosephs on June 24, 2013, 07:59:46 AM

Quote from: mikegogulski on June 24, 2013, 06:22:16 AM

I am more and more persuaded in fact that Gavin is part of the problem, and that paying him doesn't help. Gavin's seat ought to be occupied by the Linus of Bitcoin... a Brash Dickhead For Life, if you will.

Second this.

Can you imagine Gavin having the balls to say the sort of stuff Linus says^* that needs to be said? And no, burning a $1 bill doesn't count.

No, he's too busy working in secret, off the bitcoin-dev mailing list on some sideband "payment protocol" to bootstrap the de-anonymization of bitcoin via the X.509 SSL infrastructure.

That and plastering "bitcoin CORE CORE SUPER-CENTRAL INNER-CORE dev" on everything he touches.

I want Satoshi back.

(*) you know you can trust people who've made it through their 20's and still talk like this when it matters

I don't know. I'm new here and all, but this almost sounds like scapegoating to me.

Bitcoin Foundation has a legal group, no? What do they make of this letter?

I for one will be writing letters to my elected representatives explaining why bitcoin is important to me as a Californian.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Well if nothing else a crystal clear big red flag has been put up ...

!! DO NOT DO BITCOIN BUSINESS IN CALIFORNIA!!

... sucks to be a silicon valley money geek and get neutered by east coast bankster-lawyers every which way Grin

And to all those idiot Californians clamouring for more regulation .... get lubed up, grabbing your ankles is not going to be enough it seems.

bitbitcoins

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bitbitcoins.com

but how to block bitcoins transmission in CA ? technically impossible since BTC is decentralized ...

Topic: Bitcoin Foundation receives cease and desist order from California - page 8. (Read 48394 times)