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Topic: Bitcoin is a scam that thrives on language manipulation - page 2. (Read 746 times)

jr. member
Activity: 274
Merit: 2
Man, not again, please. Is bitcoin again a scam? We heard this hundreds of times and bitcoin is still here with us and will continue to exist as long as Internet will. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it a scam.

We also heard a thousand of times that the Earth is round, but flat-earthers are still here with us and will continue to exist as long as Earth will. Point?
member
Activity: 742
Merit: 21
Be the reason someone smiles today
Man, not again, please. Is bitcoin again a scam? We heard this hundreds of times and bitcoin is still here with us and will continue to exist as long as Internet will. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it a scam.
jr. member
Activity: 274
Merit: 2
There is no causal relationship between inflation and the nature of dollars.
Well you did not answer my question. If dollar is similar to "RIGHT to goods" than where are my 97 $ worth goods? dollar is just piece of paper that i worth as much as someone is going to give for it currently. It has no value.
From that chart you can see that its value is continuously going to 0.
Average fiat currency dies after 27 years...

Your 97 $ worth goods are on the market. Borrowers are constantly producing goods and services to be able to earn salaries or revenue for their dollar loan payments. In other words, borrowers are obligated to use your dollars, which means that you have rights to their goods and services. So, it's pretty simple.

Your overall point is quite interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your argument is that since bitcoin is just some code in a database and doesn't correspond to real-world value, it cannot be considered sound money or a currency. You're right in that bitcoin originated in a form that wasn't backed by real-world value. Now, to create real-world value, all it takes is the faith of two people. That's it. Two people, amongst each other, have to agree that there is value in bitcoin, and all of a sudden, it's backed by everything in the world that has value.

A simple example is this, which happened to me last night. Some friends came to my dorm room, and we decided to play blackjack. We didn't have money - all we had were playing cards and Monopoly Deal cards (which is another card game). We decided that for that session, one Monopoly Deal card would be worth $1, and we played blackjack using the Monopoly Deal cards as chips. It is true that intrinsically, the Monopoly Deal cards have little to no value. However, in that room, and in that game, each card became worth $1 simply because we, amongst each other, trusted that we would honour the value. If one of the friends in the group who was acting as the dealer refused to payout the Monopoly Deal cards into real money in case someone won, then the cards would no longer be considered valuable.

Bitcoin is just what I described above blown up to a worldwide scale. Yes, bitcoins are intrisincally worthless. The moment a network of people starts to accept it, it instantly gains value. Now, thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people worldwide consider bitcoin to be money - money in the sense, it has value, it can purchase food, goods, services, and whatnot. If 100,000 people consider something to be worth $X, it doesn't matter if that object is code or dog shit. It's still valuable, and it still works, because of global decentralized trust. Not to mention the actual hardware and electricity that goes into maintaining the proof of work required to create blocks. That's a different argument altogether.

Trust is the mother of all investment frauds. You invest a certain amount of money into someone's investment scheme, then some data about you and your investment is added into the organizer's database (DB) as a record of your investment, and all you are left with is TRUST. Trust that you will get your money back in the future. But that in no way means that DB record of your investment is valuable, i.e. that trust magically made it valuable. This record is just a mark of your investment. Nothing more and nothing less. You cannot utilize that mark like goods or services are utilized.  Also, that mark is not legally enforceable like dollars are since they are debt certificates that grant rights to goods, services or collateral of the borrowers on the bases of their obligation to repay loans. So your mark or record in the DB is entirely worthless in economic sense. The same is true for Bitcoin. Bitcoin is just a numerical mark added into the DB. It is a mere DB entry that, as such, has zero value, regardless of TRUST.
full member
Activity: 434
Merit: 101
YouTuber, gambler, and scam-buster.
There is no causal relationship between inflation and the nature of dollars.
Well you did not answer my question. If dollar is similar to "RIGHT to goods" than where are my 97 $ worth goods? dollar is just piece of paper that i worth as much as someone is going to give for it currently. It has no value.
From that chart you can see that its value is continuously going to 0.
Average fiat currency dies after 27 years...

Your 97 $ worth goods are on the market. Borrowers are constantly producing goods and services to be able to earn salaries or revenue for their dollar loan payments. In other words, borrowers are obligated to use your dollars, which means that you have rights to their goods and services. So, it's pretty simple.

Your overall point is quite interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your argument is that since bitcoin is just some code in a database and doesn't correspond to real-world value, it cannot be considered sound money or a currency. You're right in that bitcoin originated in a form that wasn't backed by real-world value. Now, to create real-world value, all it takes is the faith of two people. That's it. Two people, amongst each other, have to agree that there is value in bitcoin, and all of a sudden, it's backed by everything in the world that has value.

A simple example is this, which happened to me last night. Some friends came to my dorm room, and we decided to play blackjack. We didn't have money - all we had were playing cards and Monopoly Deal cards (which is another card game). We decided that for that session, one Monopoly Deal card would be worth $1, and we played blackjack using the Monopoly Deal cards as chips. It is true that intrinsically, the Monopoly Deal cards have little to no value. However, in that room, and in that game, each card became worth $1 simply because we, amongst each other, trusted that we would honour the value. If one of the friends in the group who was acting as the dealer refused to payout the Monopoly Deal cards into real money in case someone won, then the cards would no longer be considered valuable.

Bitcoin is just what I described above blown up to a worldwide scale. Yes, bitcoins are intrisincally worthless. The moment a network of people starts to accept it, it instantly gains value. Now, thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people worldwide consider bitcoin to be money - money in the sense, it has value, it can purchase food, goods, services, and whatnot. If 100,000 people consider something to be worth $X, it doesn't matter if that object is code or dog shit. It's still valuable, and it still works, because of global decentralized trust. Not to mention the actual hardware and electricity that goes into maintaining the proof of work required to create blocks. That's a different argument altogether.
jr. member
Activity: 274
Merit: 2
There is no causal relationship between inflation and the nature of dollars.
Well you did not answer my question. If dollar is similar to "RIGHT to goods" than where are my 97 $ worth goods? dollar is just piece of paper that i worth as much as someone is going to give for it currently. It has no value.
From that chart you can see that its value is continuously going to 0.
Average fiat currency dies after 27 years...

Your 97 $ worth goods are on the market. Borrowers are constantly producing goods and services to be able to earn salaries or revenue for their dollar loan payments. In other words, borrowers are obligated to use your dollars, which means that you have rights to their goods and services. So, it's pretty simple.
sr. member
Activity: 1701
Merit: 308
Although bitcoin is only a database but it is not possible to change existing data entries, because bitcoin itself is a digital currency that is decentralized and does not depend on any institution
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1622
There is no causal relationship between inflation and the nature of dollars.
Well you did not answer my question. If dollar is similar to "RIGHT to goods" than where are my 97 $ worth goods? dollar is just piece of paper that i worth as much as someone is going to give for it currently. It has no value.
From that chart you can see that its value is continuously going to 0.
Average fiat currency dies after 27 years...
jr. member
Activity: 274
Merit: 2
If having a dollar is similar to have right to goods than explain me this chart...



Why my 100$ bill from 1900 is now worth as much as 3$ was worth in 1900? Where are my 97$ worth goods? Disappeared due to inflation? Due to printing scam fiat money into system without coverage of goods?

Dollar (any fiat currency without gold standard) is the biggest scam of present.

There is no causal relationship between inflation and the nature of dollars.
jr. member
Activity: 274
Merit: 2
This is an unfunded article and a trash because from your analysis on dollar how the bank issues it as a loan to how the owners of goods and services accept it as a collateral does not colorate with the economic definition of money, bitcoin is the advance level of all currency and at that it run on the decentralized bank call the blockchain and if you agree with me with the definition of money then bitcoin will not be a language manipulation as you have said.

Bitcoin is not a currency. A currency is money. Money is an actual thing, such as good or certificate that grants specific rights (gold certificate or debt certificate(dollars, euros). Bitcoin is DB entry. DB entry is a record or notation of an occurrence. Bitcoin is the record of occurrence where one gives his goods, services or money for free. Calling a DB entry a currency is semantic manipulation. That's why I said that bitcoin is a scam that thrives on language manipulation.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1622
If having a dollar is similar to have right to goods than explain me this chart...



Why my 100$ bill from 1900 is now worth as much as 3$ was worth in 1900? Where are my 97$ worth goods? Disappeared due to inflation? Due to printing scam fiat money into system without coverage of goods?

Dollar (any fiat currency without gold standard) is the biggest scam of present.
full member
Activity: 980
Merit: 114
This is an unfunded article and a trash because from your analysis on dollar how the bank issues it as a loan to how the owners of goods and services accept it as a collateral does not colorate with the economic definition of money, bitcoin is the advance level of all currency and at that it run on the decentralized bank call the blockchain and if you agree with me with the definition of money then bitcoin will not be a language manipulation as you have said.
jr. member
Activity: 274
Merit: 2
No, read again, that is not the point. There is no title or db.

That's irrelevant. Any market or payment system assumes the exchange of goods, services or rights between parties. In the case of bitcoin nothing is exchanged, but only numbers are added into the DB (blockchain). Thus, the point is that bitcoin has nothing to do with market or payment or agreement on value or economy. The whole bitcoin system is just a DB management system. People are giving their stuff for free because they falsely believe that DB management system is payment system.


I get it, I really do, new concepts are hard, sometimes even treacherous; but this was all dealt with in 1929.
Your standard economic models did not work then, and they do not work now.
I guess somehow that will be irrelevant to you.

DB management system is not a new concept. What is new is the level of human stupidity where adding entries into a DB is called payment.
jr. member
Activity: 274
Merit: 2

Fiat is loan, and loan is not nothing.
You have a very wrong perception of what fiat is.
Fiat is not just a loan fiat is something like a governmental order or decree of a particular rejoin it could also be financial

My perception of FIAT is not the issue here. The issue is the fact that FIAT is RIGHT (economic thing), while bitcoin is DB entry and that giving economic thing for DB entry is giving your stuff for free.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 4392
Be a bank
No, read again, that is not the point. There is no title or db.

That's irrelevant. Any market or payment system assumes the exchange of goods, services or rights between parties. In the case of bitcoin nothing is exchanged, but only numbers are added into the DB (blockchain). Thus, the point is that bitcoin has nothing to do with market or payment or agreement on value or economy. The whole bitcoin system is just a DB management system. People are giving their stuff for free because they falsely believe that DB management system is payment system.


I get it, I really do, new concepts are hard, sometimes even treacherous; but this was all dealt with in 1929.
Your standard economic models did not work then, and they do not work now.
I guess somehow that will be irrelevant to you.
member
Activity: 672
Merit: 29

Fiat is loan, and loan is not nothing.
You have a very wrong perception of what fiat is.
Fiat is not just a loan fiat is something like a governmental order or decree of a particular rejoin it could also be financial
jr. member
Activity: 274
Merit: 2
No, read again, that is not the point. There is no title or db.

That's irrelevant. Any market or payment system assumes the exchange of goods, services or rights between parties. In the case of bitcoin nothing is exchanged, but only numbers are added into the DB (blockchain). Thus, the point is that bitcoin has nothing to do with market or payment or agreement on value or economy. The whole bitcoin system is just a DB management system. People are giving their stuff for free because they falsely believe that DB management system is payment system.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 4392
Be a bank
No, read again, that is not the point. There is no title or db.
jr. member
Activity: 274
Merit: 2

If we start from a simple and undeniable fact that economic things(goods, services or rights) cannot appear or disappear by adding or deleting numerical database(DB) entries, then it is obvious that so called Block Reward, which is just an algorithmically added numerical entry (50 initially) into a DB called blockchain, is in economic sense actually NOTHING or nothingness.

This is absolutely right. You can't create stuff out of thin air. There is no title (what you are calling 'rights') in Bitcoin.

There are no coins, or transactions or ledgers. They are all metaphors for what we are doing.

'We' as in people, real live humans.

What we are doing is coming to agreements, peer-to-peer, that my x is worth your y, and we are both happy to swap them.

We redesigned economics, correctly this time, while you slept, so that it is actually honest.

But the whole point is that "your x" is DB entry and "my y" is economic thing ( good, service or right). Giving goods, services or rights for DB entry is not market exchange (agreement on value), but giving your stuff for free and hoping others will do the same, which is essentially how ponzi schemes operate.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 4392
Be a bank

If we start from a simple and undeniable fact that economic things(goods, services or rights) cannot appear or disappear by adding or deleting numerical database(DB) entries, then it is obvious that so called Block Reward, which is just an algorithmically added numerical entry (50 initially) into a DB called blockchain, is in economic sense actually NOTHING or nothingness.

This is absolutely right. You can't create stuff out of thin air. There is no title (what you are calling 'rights') in Bitcoin.

There are no coins, or transactions or ledgers. They are all metaphors for what we are doing.

'We' as in people, real live humans.

What we are doing is coming to agreements, peer-to-peer, that my x is worth your y, and we are both happy to swap them.

We redesigned economics, correctly this time, while you slept, so that it is actually honest.
sr. member
Activity: 1470
Merit: 325

For. e.g. fiat money is created when a bank grants a loan i.e. SOMETHING, which is why paying someone with fiat money is actually the transfer of rights derived from bank loans. That is why fiat money fits the definition of payment — SOMETHING (rights recorded in the banking system) are transferred from one person to another.

This is retarded.

Bitcoin can do everything what FIAT money does, except the inflation which is a feature.

the FED can create infinite amounts of Dollars but there will be only 21 million bitcoins. No central bank has the power to create more coins.
#

communal fiat are state currencies that reward individuals of a state for work that benefits the community, bitcoin is no way doing that,

this community proofed with you again that its full of idiots
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