Bitcoin IS basically DESTROYED - page 22.

LoyceV

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Quote from: X badapple X on May 17, 2016, 03:10:09 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on May 17, 2016, 10:01:38 AM

Quote from: jorgens on May 17, 2016, 08:06:17 AM

the ones who control most bitcoins has more to lose.

Miners aren't necessarily the ones who control most bitcoins! The early adopters control a large amount, the future miners have less than one-third of bitcoins left to mine the rest of this century.

"Controlling most of bitcoins" and "controlling Bitcoin" are two totally different things. Satoshi, for instance, controls around a million BTC, but he doesn't control Bitcoin's day-to-day functioning any more than the guy with .01 BTC, the miners do tho. They stop -- no more Bitcoin. That's why the halvening is going to be so interesting: either the price of BTC has to spontaneously double, or roughly half of the miners have to close up shop.

I think the halving is already calculated in by the miners in their estimate for their profit. So shortly the hash rate may not go up much, or even down a bit, but after that it will just continue up again. I see no reason to instantly double the value, just like that didn't happen at the previous halving.

pariahbit

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Quote from: Amph on May 18, 2016, 09:13:17 AM

Quote from: X badapple X on May 17, 2016, 04:31:08 PM

Quote from: Blawpaw on May 17, 2016, 04:09:22 PM

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

no, you don't know what you're talking about, after the halving miners with 0.1 cent in electricity can still mine for good profit

Miners with .1 cent electricity? $0.001? Why would they keep mining? They aught to be out riding their unicorns.

Chrismeister

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Quote from: From Above on May 08, 2016, 05:15:25 AM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on May 05, 2016, 10:19:55 AM

Bitcoin is basically destroyed now with 70% of the mining controlled by China, soon to be 98+%, and with Blockstream implementing their SegWit soft fork Trojan Horse so as Matonis admits can end up increasing the 21 million coins limit.

The entire ecosystem is headed for a clusterfuck.

I honestly believe this is the truth. What is there to add ?

~CfA~

UPDATE: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14789764

bitcoins are not basically destroyed but there is just one thing they need to get a come back and that is more publicity not only on the tv but also on the internet and commercials. I don't see anything about coins in the internet in commercials that has to be for a new fresh start,

27QVUTZj8rgZP1

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Quote from: Akupuniard on May 18, 2016, 07:39:28 AM

It's seems like a nonsense, even if China controll 70%, is it problem to keep mining for yourself or even move to china? I think people just trying to hype on nonsense news Grin

I think they are treating China as a single person, company, or whatever.

If Bitcoin becomes "centralized" or a thing you do not like, you can always move to an "altcoin" or FORK IT!.

That would not be so easy if it becomes "mainstream" because the "mainstream" fraction of the population are ignorant and will not care about that at all, as a result they will allow centralization and dictatorship to take place. Especially if the effects are negligible to their experience and daily usage.

Just my opinion.

Amph

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Quote from: X badapple X on May 17, 2016, 04:31:08 PM

Quote from: Blawpaw on May 17, 2016, 04:09:22 PM

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

no, you don't know what you're talking about, after the halving miners with 0.1 cent in electricity can still mine for good profit

they are currently making 4 x($180 revenue vs $45 consumption) their consumption, in revenue....

kik1977

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Wherever I may roam

Bitcoin initially was probably mostly US controlled (=mined), doesn't look like it was the end of it.

Akupuniard

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It's seems like a nonsense, even if China controll 70%, is it problem to keep mining for yourself or even move to china? I think people just trying to hype on nonsense news Grin

DimensionZ

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Shit, did I leave the stove on?

I wonder how many coins the Chinese miners are left with after they have paid their electricity bills at the end of the month and any expenses that go into maintaining and replacing bad hardware. I highly doubt it that the Chinese would like losing their business and their profits by initiating a 51% attack on the Bitcoin network.

Mike8

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Quote from: From Above on May 08, 2016, 05:15:25 AM

Quote from: TPTB_need_war on May 05, 2016, 10:19:55 AM

Bitcoin is basically destroyed now with 70% of the mining controlled by China, soon to be 98+%, and with Blockstream implementing their SegWit soft fork Trojan Horse so as Matonis admits can end up increasing the 21 million coins limit.

The entire ecosystem is headed for a clusterfuck.

I honestly believe this is the truth. What is there to add ?

~CfA~

UPDATE: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14789764

Bitcoin is destroyed.
Dash is a scam coin.
Ethereum is basically a bunch of bad code that should not even work.

I keep reading these things and still, all there coins seem to have huge success.
Meanwhile some coins that seem to be interesting, innovating, legit, are almost unknown and their price is less than pennies.

keyscore44

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Quote from: X badapple X on May 17, 2016, 06:05:07 PM

Quote from: LiberOptions on May 17, 2016, 04:59:42 PM

Quote from: X badapple X on May 17, 2016, 04:31:08 PM

Quote from: Blawpaw on May 17, 2016, 04:09:22 PM

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

Once the halving takes place we will see a lot of old miners getting of the boat. It wioll be uprofitable to mine for most of the oldest mining hardware. Since a lot of people will stop mining with their old hardware the most efficient miners will still be profitable!

Only if they're all paying the same price for electricity. Actual range is from 0 (stolen/dorm/mom's basement) to below $.02 (China, hearsay) to probably as high as $.07?

Yes, it is, but it is not only about electricity price. With so high difficulty maybe even more important is equipment performance. Everyone know that S5 now is in troubles.
On the market will stay the one who will win the technological race.
(In my opinion because of that Bitmain still not disclose S9)

X badapple X

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Quote from: LiberOptions on May 17, 2016, 04:59:42 PM

Quote from: X badapple X on May 17, 2016, 04:31:08 PM

Quote from: Blawpaw on May 17, 2016, 04:09:22 PM

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

Once the halving takes place we will see a lot of old miners getting of the boat. It wioll be uprofitable to mine for most of the oldest mining hardware. Since a lot of people will stop mining with their old hardware the most efficient miners will still be profitable!

Only if they're all paying the same price for electricity. Actual range is from 0 (stolen/dorm/mom's basement) to below $.02 (China, hearsay) to probably as high as $.07?

LiberOptions

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Quote from: X badapple X on May 17, 2016, 04:31:08 PM

Quote from: Blawpaw on May 17, 2016, 04:09:22 PM

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

Once the halving takes place we will see a lot of old miners getting of the boat. It wioll be uprofitable to mine for most of the oldest mining hardware. Since a lot of people will stop mining with their old hardware the most efficient miners will still be profitable!

X badapple X

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Quote from: Blawpaw on May 17, 2016, 04:09:22 PM

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

Blawpaw

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Quote from: mayax on May 08, 2016, 05:26:01 AM

Quote from: markj113 on May 08, 2016, 05:19:33 AM

Quote from: PinkLlama on May 08, 2016, 05:17:17 AM

Why would the fact that China is basically controlling mining do anything to Bitcoin?

The whole concept of bitcoin was based around decentralisation.

If China controlls a large % of the hash power then it would only take the collaboration of a few to hit the dreaded 51% control point

China owns over 80% from the mining and the trading market as well. China owns over 95% from BTC transactions too.

The centralization is a reality.

https://blockchain.info/pools?show_adv=no

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

iv4n

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War of the nations! I can call this thread like that, and its not far from the truth.

Headline: Bitcoin is basically destroyed! Did OP just told us to sell everything we have? Or I didn't understand it good..

For me situation is pretty clear. Someone, or some people invested big money in mining.. when others talked about decline of BTC, about how something like that has no future, some people (in this case Chinese) invested in BTC and of course now they have big income from that. Like anyone else they will try to make even more, its in human nature. Now they have more power then several years ago, but they worked for that. I doubt they will destroy it now when they are winning the game. When you see situation from that side bigger possibility is to someone else destroy btc. Someone who is jealous, someone who doesn't know how to lose and someone who envy when other people make success.

As I see you are still talking, and some people ( probably Chinese ) are buying and investing... so its like history repeating.

keyscore44

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Quote from: Cryddit on May 17, 2016, 11:52:25 AM

Well, I'm pretty sure that miners (even with subsidized electricity) are selling over 90% of what they mine just to make expenses. And it's not terribly unlikely that some are selling 100%.

Make no mistake, mining is mostly about making spendable money. And the way to make bitcoins spendable in the wider economy, is to trade them for fiat.

If this is true (that miners sell over 90% of what they mine) we should be very happy that Bitcoin price is at the level as it is now. We can only imagine what will happen to the price of Bitcoin when PoW stage finish.. Shocked

X badapple X

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Quote from: LoyceV on May 17, 2016, 10:01:38 AM

Quote from: jorgens on May 17, 2016, 08:06:17 AM

the ones who control most bitcoins has more to lose.

Miners aren't necessarily the ones who control most bitcoins! The early adopters control a large amount, the future miners have less than one-third of bitcoins left to mine the rest of this century.

"Controlling most of bitcoins" and "controlling Bitcoin" are two totally different things. Satoshi, for instance, controls around a million BTC, but he doesn't control Bitcoin's day-to-day functioning any more than the guy with .01 BTC, the miners do tho. They stop -- no more Bitcoin. That's why the halvening is going to be so interesting: either the price of BTC has to spontaneously double, or roughly half of the miners have to close up shop.

Superways

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Quote from: squatz1 on May 15, 2016, 09:05:39 PM

Just because China is controlling a large portion does not mean bitcoin is "ruined". Im sure more opportunities will come up, making bitcoin more accessible. It is growing in popularity however, and on an increase in value.

Yeah, mining is not the only way to get bitcoins, as we are seeing that there is not the Chinese only who are earning bitcoin, all of the people around the world are earning bitcoins efficiently. So there are a lot of other ways also through which you can earn bitcoin and the remaining world is not enough on mining as they have found a very good business with bitcoin which is more better than mining.

Cryddit

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As the number of bitcoins awarded per block goes down, the hash rate and rate at which electricity is spent will also go down.

At some point miners become dependent on tx fees alone, and I expect that a fee market will develop that makes bitcoin quite expensive to use relative to other forms of payment, for all transactions except the very large ones. Someone making a 100BTC spend may not mind spending 1BTC on fees. Someone making a 4BTC spend, not so much.

MicroGuy

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Quote from: Cryddit on May 17, 2016, 11:52:25 AM

Well, I'm pretty sure that miners (even with subsidized electricity) are selling over 90% of what they mine just to make expenses. And it's not terribly unlikely that some are selling 100%.

Make no mistake, mining is mostly about making spendable money. And the way to make bitcoins spendable in the wider economy, is to trade them for fiat.

Proof of Work (Pow) is not a sustainable reward system for maintaining a cryptographic transaction system. It would be impossible for bitcoin to reach any sort of mainstream adoption with this severely flawed energy-gobbling incentivizing scheme.

If we look at nature, rainfall is not rewarded for nourishing plants. The sun is not rewarded for its life giving rays. I think the sustainable mining system will be one that more closely models nature.

Unfortunately, a solution is nowhere in sight. This is evidenced by a consensus model that has resulted in a maximum block size issue which is crippling the network. The community itself is destroying bitcoin with its continued support for the current fork.

Fortunately, a second generation of cryptocurrencies is being born that is learning from these failures and adapting.

~~

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