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Topic: Bitcoin Is Property Not Currency - page 13. (Read 14762 times)

newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
March 25, 2014, 06:23:35 PM
#48
All I'm thankful for is I didn't preorder those 1TH+ miners... with the difficulty this high and now daily mining being taxable as ordinary income (and not when btc are sold/exchanged) and with cost of hardware and power, there's no ROI left. IRS has essentially gifted mining to the Chinese.

The only way you'd owe taxes is if you were making income by mining (by definition!).  

From what I understood, that's only if you file "self-employment", then you can include expenses like hardware and power and then it will all net out plus some writedowns ... if not, then its just ordinary income (although obviously a monetary loss with costs and taxes included)

The real reason this is bad is for miners is that it could greatly increase the risk.  The IRS just said you are taxed at the rate when you receive the coin.  What happens if the coin loses value from the point when it's mined to the point when you sell it?  

Lets say I mine 1 btc on a pool and the pool sends me the BTC.  I have a record of the transaction being sent to my wallet.  I can then look up the value on bitstamp at the time I received the BTC, lets say it's worth $580.  The IRS says I'm taxed on the $580 as "income" minus any expenses such as cost of miner and electricity.  Now I wait 6 months and the coin I mined is only worth $200 and I sell.  The question becomes, have I just realized a $380 capital loss to adjust income?  This is the big question I have from reading the IRS FAQ.  

It would be so much simpler if mining income was calculated when you actually sell the bitcoin.  It's the same way for individuals that mine gold, the only difference here is that bitcoin has a public ledger and gold does not.
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
Don't fear Crypto Exchanges go with honest well kn
March 25, 2014, 06:20:35 PM
#47
Ok if they can tax it make it also available for anyone to play in online casinos it's not like we don't travel to places and give them our money that you could be earning anyways.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
March 25, 2014, 06:19:16 PM
#46
All I'm thankful for is I didn't preorder those 1TH+ miners... with the difficulty this high and now daily mining being taxable as ordinary income (and not when btc are sold/exchanged) and with cost of hardware and power, there's no ROI left. IRS has essentially gifted mining to the Chinese.

One word:

Corporations.

Watch for my offerings in that regard, coming soon to an internet forum near you.

My $.02.

Wink

So basically you mine as income and offset it with expenses such as hardware, utilities, depreciation, etc.? 

By George, I think you've got it!

Al least part of it..............................

My $.02.

Wink
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
March 25, 2014, 06:16:11 PM
#45
This was inevitable. To be honest, this at least shows that the US government isn't going to ban bitcoin outright. I'd much rather see regulated exchanges on US soil than what we have today.
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
Don't fear Crypto Exchanges go with honest well kn
March 25, 2014, 06:15:40 PM
#44
I was just about to come here an post this. haha!
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
March 25, 2014, 06:15:01 PM
#43
All I'm thankful for is I didn't preorder those 1TH+ miners... with the difficulty this high and now daily mining being taxable as ordinary income (and not when btc are sold/exchanged) and with cost of hardware and power, there's no ROI left. IRS has essentially gifted mining to the Chinese.

One word:

Corporations.

Watch for my offerings in that regard, coming soon to an internet forum near you.

My $.02.

Wink

So basically you mine as income and offset it with expenses such as hardware, utilities, depreciation, etc.? 
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
March 25, 2014, 06:06:03 PM
#42
I think this is really good news!

Looking forward to take out a mortgage against my bitcoins.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Bitcoin Evengelist
March 25, 2014, 05:57:42 PM
#41
All I'm thankful for is I didn't preorder those 1TH+ miners... with the difficulty this high and now daily mining being taxable as ordinary income (and not when btc are sold/exchanged) and with cost of hardware and power, there's no ROI left. IRS has essentially gifted mining to the Chinese.

The only way you'd owe taxes is if you were making income by mining (by definition!).  

From what I understood, that's only if you file "self-employment", then you can include expenses like hardware and power and then it will all net out plus some writedowns ... if not, then its just ordinary income (although obviously a monetary loss with costs and taxes included)
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Bitcoin Evengelist
March 25, 2014, 05:55:57 PM
#40
All I'm thankful for is I didn't preorder those 1TH+ miners... with the difficulty this high and now daily mining being taxable as ordinary income (and not when btc are sold/exchanged) and with cost of hardware and power, there's no ROI left. IRS has essentially gifted mining to the Chinese.

One word:

Corporations.

Watch for my offerings in that regard, coming soon to an internet forum near you.

My $.02.

Wink

Haha Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1014
March 25, 2014, 05:45:59 PM
#39
INSANE ... now Americans who did KYC with Gox etc. are in trouble

those investing time in local trades are fine, the rest will spend hundreds of hours doing paperwork

BureaucraTCoin   Embarrassed

Any Bitcoin shops in Tijuana?  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
March 25, 2014, 05:36:18 PM
#38
All I'm thankful for is I didn't preorder those 1TH+ miners... with the difficulty this high and now daily mining being taxable as ordinary income (and not when btc are sold/exchanged) and with cost of hardware and power, there's no ROI left. IRS has essentially gifted mining to the Chinese.

The only way you'd owe taxes is if you were making income by mining (by definition!).  
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
March 25, 2014, 05:35:10 PM
#37
All I'm thankful for is I didn't preorder those 1TH+ miners... with the difficulty this high and now daily mining being taxable as ordinary income (and not when btc are sold/exchanged) and with cost of hardware and power, there's no ROI left. IRS has essentially gifted mining to the Chinese.

One word:

Corporations.

Watch for my offerings in that regard, coming soon to an internet forum near you.

My $.02.

Wink
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Bitcoin Evengelist
March 25, 2014, 05:29:39 PM
#36
All I'm thankful for is I didn't preorder those 1TH+ miners... with the difficulty this high and now daily mining being taxable as ordinary income (and not when btc are sold/exchanged) and with cost of hardware and power, there's no ROI left. IRS has essentially gifted mining to the Chinese.
hero member
Activity: 493
Merit: 500
March 25, 2014, 05:25:57 PM
#35
Does this mean sales tax may be enforced on BTC as well?

It could well mean just that.

My $.02.

Wink

Once again, for those who missed it: Bitcoins are digital goods. Do you pay sales tax on iTunes apps/songs? On Steam digital purchases? I personally don't, and haven't, anywhere I've lived.  Generally speaking, sales tax is for physical goods. /ymmv
newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0
March 25, 2014, 05:21:22 PM
#34
Sounds like an opportunity for someone to write some wallet software that will keep track of an individual or business's gains and losses and tax liabilities. Possibly tied to the block chain for auditing purposes. It might be an attempt at a cock block but nothing that can't be worked around. It will be interesting to see what happens in contrast to the UK which has pretty much decided it's a currency (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm). I wonder if London will be taking a lot of BTC business from New York.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
March 25, 2014, 05:14:59 PM
#33
Does this mean sales tax may be enforced on BTC as well?

It could well mean just that.

My $.02.

Wink
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
March 25, 2014, 05:12:06 PM
#32
I'm confused.  So I bought 10 btc this year.  Even if I don't sell them this year am I supose to pay taxes on the increased value for 2014?

Assuming you are in the US or in most other countries with guidance on this: No.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
March 25, 2014, 05:10:22 PM
#31
I'm confused.  So I bought 10 btc this year.  Even if I don't sell them this year am I supose to pay taxes on the increased value for 2014?
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
March 25, 2014, 05:08:55 PM
#30
There is no reasonable way to track this.

Nonsense. All transactions ore visible on the blockchain. Just choose between LIFO and FIFO accounting models, then get to finding the dates of each of your transactions.

None of my 2000+ transactions with Cryptsy/BTC-e/Coinbase/Etc are on the blockchain. (Directly associated with me/internal trades)
hero member
Activity: 831
Merit: 500
BitSong is a decentralized music streaming platfor
March 25, 2014, 05:02:09 PM
#29
Wow, as if we didn't have enough bad news this year... yup, 2014 is a shit year for bitcoin

Remember, the more they try to regulate it, the more legitimacy it gets.
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