Realistically, you could almost definitely find crew up to the officer level who'd be willing to live & work for a decent room and board. And yes, you could move away from storms as well as from regional powers who suddenly decided to expand their maritime claims to include your island, as has been done many times before.
The first sustainable micronation will have to float, and have to have great connectivity. The reason it hasn't been done yet boils down to the fact that floating and having great internet access are still mutually exclusive. That is the only reason it hasn't been done. Beyond that, there are questions of what laws, who's in charge, what currency, etc; but with a functional currency independent of national fiat, Bitcoiners are actually uniquely well positioned to create something like this...possibly more so than any other group since the founding city-states of the Hanseatic league opened up the original free trade zone.
The key to making it work would be overcoming the inherent costs in reconciling mobility (floating) with connectivity (tethering), while sacrificing neither freedom of movement nor freedom of communication. That is what any such plan ultimately comes down to. A Bitcoin micronation requires that you not trade away economic or personal liberties in exchange for the other. No nation on earth presently accommodates both types of liberties, and if the "Chinese Model" is any indication, things will only go downhill from here. So - yeah - a ship is a good place to start. Nicaraguan island, not so much.
Topic: Bitcoin Island - page 2. (Read 10642 times)
Cruise ships are nice but they require a lot of manpower to run. After doing a cursory internet search, it looks like one would need a minimum of a Captain, Staff Captain, Chief / First Officer, Chief Radio Officer, Security Officer, Deckhand, Able Seaman, Safety Officer, Bosun / First Mate, Chief Engineer, Chief Electrician, Electrician, Motorman, and a Plumber.
Not to mention all the kitchen, housekeeping, and general maintenance staff. Who would pay their salaries?
Weather is also something to be considered. At least during a bad storm, no one has to worry about an island sinking.
No, I agree that an island would be the way to go but I also feel GLBSE is the way to finance it. That way Nefario can verify the identities of those in charge and it would be easier to pay back investors if it didn't work out. If someone draws up a sound business plan and shareholders are able to vote on developments and will own a proportionate piece of the project, I'd seriously consider investing.
Wirtland and Atlantium were interesting experiments in virtual countries, but they obviously don't have enough active citizens to make much headway in establishing a global presence. I'm pretty sure that if a handful of bitcoin community members put forth a serious effort at creating a new micronation with a bitcoin based economy, it could easily rival any existing example in a matter of days.
On the other hand, it might not be such a bad thing that this island is under Nicaraguan jurisdiction - maintaining a diplomatic relationship with one government is easier than fighting them all.
Not to mention all the kitchen, housekeeping, and general maintenance staff. Who would pay their salaries?
Weather is also something to be considered. At least during a bad storm, no one has to worry about an island sinking.
No, I agree that an island would be the way to go but I also feel GLBSE is the way to finance it. That way Nefario can verify the identities of those in charge and it would be easier to pay back investors if it didn't work out. If someone draws up a sound business plan and shareholders are able to vote on developments and will own a proportionate piece of the project, I'd seriously consider investing.
Wirtland and Atlantium were interesting experiments in virtual countries, but they obviously don't have enough active citizens to make much headway in establishing a global presence. I'm pretty sure that if a handful of bitcoin community members put forth a serious effort at creating a new micronation with a bitcoin based economy, it could easily rival any existing example in a matter of days.
On the other hand, it might not be such a bad thing that this island is under Nicaraguan jurisdiction - maintaining a diplomatic relationship with one government is easier than fighting them all.
A ship could also move out of the way of a storm, an island can't. And considering that we're talking about glorified sandbars, there's no certainty that there will be any useful island left after the first good tropical storm rolls through.
And a ship that isn't moving, doesn't need a pilot. Most of those jobs mentioned can be performed by the same people while not piloting the ship. Do you really think that a ship needs both a first officer and a radio officer? Some ships need these things, but mostly because they are in constant motion.
Cruise ships are nice but they require a lot of manpower to run.
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On the other hand, it might not be such a bad thing that this island is under Nicaraguan jurisdiction - maintaining a diplomatic relationship with one government is easier than fighting them all.
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On the other hand, it might not be such a bad thing that this island is under Nicaraguan jurisdiction - maintaining a diplomatic relationship with one government is easier than fighting them all.
Agree on both counts. And I also think that the Bitcoin community is the shortest viable route to establishing a micronation that exists today, given we already have a currency. In fact, we're a currency in search of a country. The problem is, if you're going to choose a flag of convenience, you have to be careful you choose one that won't invade or nationalize you as soon as you start doing something interesting. Honduras might be a better choice. Costa Rica would probably be great. Nicaragua is a definite no-go. No way in hell. I wouldn't even consider opening a bank account there, let alone buying property.
*One little edit to this - the online casino industry is way ahead of the curve when it comes to figuring out the basics you need in a jurisdiction before trying to operate there with a large amount of capital. The lessons learned in the industry since the late '90s would be useful to someone today trying to navigate the world of offshore finance, real estate, data storage and currency exchange.
Cruise ships are nice but they require a lot of manpower to run. After doing a cursory internet search, it looks like one would need a minimum of a Captain, Staff Captain, Chief / First Officer, Chief Radio Officer, Security Officer, Deckhand, Able Seaman, Safety Officer, Bosun / First Mate, Chief Engineer, Chief Electrician, Electrician, Motorman, and a Plumber.
Not to mention all the kitchen, housekeeping, and general maintenance staff. Who would pay their salaries?
Weather is also something to be considered. At least during a bad storm, no one has to worry about an island sinking.
No, I agree that an island would be the way to go but I also feel GLBSE is the way to finance it. That way Nefario can verify the identities of those in charge and it would be easier to pay back investors if it didn't work out. If someone draws up a sound business plan and shareholders are able to vote on developments and will own a proportionate piece of the project, I'd seriously consider investing.
Wirtland and Atlantium were interesting experiments in virtual countries, but they obviously don't have enough active citizens to make much headway in establishing a global presence. I'm pretty sure that if a handful of bitcoin community members put forth a serious effort at creating a new micronation with a bitcoin based economy, it could easily rival any existing example in a matter of days.
On the other hand, it might not be such a bad thing that this island is under Nicaraguan jurisdiction - maintaining a diplomatic relationship with one government is easier than fighting them all.
Not to mention all the kitchen, housekeeping, and general maintenance staff. Who would pay their salaries?
Weather is also something to be considered. At least during a bad storm, no one has to worry about an island sinking.
No, I agree that an island would be the way to go but I also feel GLBSE is the way to finance it. That way Nefario can verify the identities of those in charge and it would be easier to pay back investors if it didn't work out. If someone draws up a sound business plan and shareholders are able to vote on developments and will own a proportionate piece of the project, I'd seriously consider investing.
Wirtland and Atlantium were interesting experiments in virtual countries, but they obviously don't have enough active citizens to make much headway in establishing a global presence. I'm pretty sure that if a handful of bitcoin community members put forth a serious effort at creating a new micronation with a bitcoin based economy, it could easily rival any existing example in a matter of days.
On the other hand, it might not be such a bad thing that this island is under Nicaraguan jurisdiction - maintaining a diplomatic relationship with one government is easier than fighting them all.
Total Received 1 BTC
Almost there.
Almost there.
Question about seasteading: Just because nobody claims a territory currently, doesn't mean they won't in the future. And then it's your army against theirs. I'd think a ship (being mobile) would be a better option. You'd need a solid internet connection for bitcoining though...
How 'bout this one? It's only $31M... just about the value of all the Bitcoins in circulation 
Comes with a casino, and yes, StrikeSapphire would happily host the game and beverage concession. Connectivity might be a little tough out there, considering how expensive satellite links are, but maybe one of the European pirate parties would go 50/50 on it and help set it up as a little offshore data haven, to help subsidize the costs. And then of course you need a captain and crew, and possibly some kind of defensive armaments, considering the number of real pirates out there these days.
http://www.yachtingbrokers.com/640_cruise_ship_for_sale.html
Comes with a casino, and yes, StrikeSapphire would happily host the game and beverage concession. Connectivity might be a little tough out there, considering how expensive satellite links are, but maybe one of the European pirate parties would go 50/50 on it and help set it up as a little offshore data haven, to help subsidize the costs. And then of course you need a captain and crew, and possibly some kind of defensive armaments, considering the number of real pirates out there these days.
http://www.yachtingbrokers.com/640_cruise_ship_for_sale.html
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In January 2010 Wirtland proposed to acquire land by consent from Nauru. If successful, it would be the first case of a peaceful formation of a new country 'from scratch', making Wirtland potentially eligible for international diplomatic recognition according to Article 1 of Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, provided that it can also meet the requirements of a "permanent population" under the control of a government.
What do you think? How about new free country/free town/free bitcoin island?More info on Wirtland:
http://grou.ps/witizens/videos/1266229 (video Fox45 News)
http://www.wirtland.com/ (home page)
Well, it's certainly interesting and I think Bitcoin, the first real Internet currency, should certainly be the official currency of Wirtland, the first country that exists only on the Internet.
Apparently, their population is 2,031 as of 1/11/2011. Adding bitcoiners and Libertarians into the mix could certainly boost that, but I do think soil is needed. Seasteading, as mentioned earlier in the thread, looks interesting too:
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Seasteading is the concept of creating permanent dwellings at sea, called seasteads, outside the territory claimed by the government of any standing nation.
What we really need is to combine all three of these: Bitcoin + Wirtland + Seasteading = Awesome?
BINGO!
Yesterday, I was thinking about Googling to see if such a place exist. After reading your post earlier today, I've pondered our obtions during the course of the rest of the day. I've visited the site, and look what I found--their forum. It's pretty huge, therefore I was only able to take a screen shot of it.
I've got something up my sleeve and, if we do this right, I believe we can bring further awareness to Bitcoin. Watch for my next thread.
~Bruno~
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In January 2010 Wirtland proposed to acquire land by consent from Nauru. If successful, it would be the first case of a peaceful formation of a new country 'from scratch', making Wirtland potentially eligible for international diplomatic recognition according to Article 1 of Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, provided that it can also meet the requirements of a "permanent population" under the control of a government.
What do you think? How about new free country/free town/free bitcoin island?More info on Wirtland:
http://grou.ps/witizens/videos/1266229 (video Fox45 News)
http://www.wirtland.com/ (home page)
Well, it's certainly interesting and I think Bitcoin, the first real Internet currency, should certainly be the official currency of Wirtland, the first country that exists only on the Internet.
Apparently, their population is 2,031 as of 1/11/2011. Adding bitcoiners and Libertarians into the mix could certainly boost that, but I do think soil is needed. Seasteading, as mentioned earlier in the thread, looks interesting too:
Quote
Seasteading is the concept of creating permanent dwellings at sea, called seasteads, outside the territory claimed by the government of any standing nation.
What we really need is to combine all three of these: Bitcoin + Wirtland + Seasteading = Awesome?
Quote
In January 2010 Wirtland proposed to acquire land by consent from Nauru. If successful, it would be the first case of a peaceful formation of a new country 'from scratch', making Wirtland potentially eligible for international diplomatic recognition according to Article 1 of Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, provided that it can also meet the requirements of a "permanent population" under the control of a government.
What do you think? How about new free country/free town/free bitcoin island? From the looks of the images on eBay, you have a handsome home surrounded by a landscaped property. Not much room there to build anything else.
No, no, that's not right. Look at the map. Five acres is much more than just that. The pics don't show all of it.
Besides, just for perspective, you know what else sits on one acre? The Burj al Arab.
Five acres is very small. Are we sure it isn't in hectares?
A hectare is 2.471 acres, so that would make it 12.355 acres, which still seems small. I think we need something at least 25 acres.
From the looks of the images on eBay, you have a handsome home surrounded by a landscaped property. Not much room there to build anything else.
No, no, that's not right. Look at the map. Five acres is much more than just that. The pics don't show all of it.
Besides, just for perspective, you know what else sits on one acre? The Burj al Arab.
Five acres is very small. Are we sure it isn't in hectares?
How about building an underwater city ala Bioshock?
Or an aircraft carrier ala Snowcrash?
Or an aircraft carrier ala Snowcrash?
I've never played Bioshock. I'd tried to read Snowcrash, but just couldn't get into it like I did with Cryptocromicon, System of the World & The Diamond Age.
Why an aircraft carrier? Those are particularly uncomfortable ships. How about a cruise ship?
Until something dramatic is found on the ocean's floor to justify the expense, a city underwater is actually less likely from an economic perspective than one on the Moon. At least a moonbase would verifiablely have H3 to collect for export. There is probably nothing else on the moon of any particular scarcity to ever justify a moonbase economicly. Bitcoin mining in the dark craters of the moon would have free cooling and continuous solar power for two weeks at a time, though.
How about building an underwater city ala Bioshock?
Or an aircraft carrier ala Snowcrash?
Or an aircraft carrier ala Snowcrash?
Very cool.
I have actually experimented with a floating island design (floathaven .com).
Its still in the prototype phase so I wont accept money from anyone, but once ready I think we can churn out land for about 20$/m^2.
You guys should look into the seasteading movement, very BTC like.
I have actually experimented with a floating island design (floathaven .com).
Its still in the prototype phase so I wont accept money from anyone, but once ready I think we can churn out land for about 20$/m^2.
You guys should look into the seasteading movement, very BTC like.
I have considered something like this for a long time.
Crowd funding something.
The idea would be to have a type of club where you purchase membership by contributing Bitcoins.
The Bitcoin wallet where all of the Bitcoins sit would require a key from each member in order for it to be spent.
Once the right opportunity comes along and enough BTC is accumulated, then the members of the club all enter their keys and the BTC gets transferred.
The main thing I cannot figure out is if one person wants to sabotage the project they can get their key and hold it over everyone else to either destroy the club or to use it as a bargaining chip to get the money released. The only solutions to this would be situations where not everyone who contributed gets what they want.
Crowd funding something.
The idea would be to have a type of club where you purchase membership by contributing Bitcoins.
The Bitcoin wallet where all of the Bitcoins sit would require a key from each member in order for it to be spent.
Once the right opportunity comes along and enough BTC is accumulated, then the members of the club all enter their keys and the BTC gets transferred.
The main thing I cannot figure out is if one person wants to sabotage the project they can get their key and hold it over everyone else to either destroy the club or to use it as a bargaining chip to get the money released. The only solutions to this would be situations where not everyone who contributed gets what they want.
Simple solution just make it an n of m multi-sig address. Set n to be something reasonable which still makes members feel safe like say 80%.
Yes, I thought of that. But the 20% that do not agree would be forced to have their money spent on something they do not want. I suppose it could work if you set up a way to send the money back to those who do not want what the final decision is. Perhaps the 80% threshold gets hit and then the BTC gets transferred toward the purchase and the other 20% goes to those addresses that did not agree on the final decision.
Very easy to do that and do it completely anonymously but it does require a little trust that the refund will be honored.
1) Setup an multi-sig address for the initial contributors (lets say there are 20 of them)
2) Everyone must contribute from an address which can receive payments back (i.e. no ewallets other than ones like StrongCoin).
3) So all 20 initial contributors have paid into the multi-sig address (16 are required to sign a tx).
Now if new contributors come along you simply create a new multi-sig address (i.e. 18 of 22) have the new contributors make their pledge deposit, and have current contributors sign a tx to forward funds to the new address.
When a potential purchase is found call a vote. Vote can be verified by having members sign their vote w/ private key of their deposit address.
The options are:
Vote Yes
Vote No (refund if vote passes)
Vote No (contribute anyways if vote passes)
If the vote fails to gain 80% approval then nothing happens.
If the vote does gain 80% approval then create a multi-sig tx paying from all the addresses which agree and refunding all the addresses which don't. All members can verify the tx and sign it. Once it has 80% of signatures the tx is valid and funds will be dispersed.
The trust comes with the last step. Members "could" once they have 80% of signatures forward all funds (even of those who object) and refund nothing. Since they have 80% of the keys the minority can't prevent that. I don't believe multi-sig can remove that element of trust.
Answered in separate thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-crowdsourcing-82350
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The wildlife consists of white faced and howler monkeys, wild puerco, parrots, toucans, and plenty of ocean critters.
The Secret of Bitcoin Island
From the looks of the images on eBay, you have a handsome home surrounded by a landscaped property. Not much room there to build anything else.
No, no, that's not right. Look at the map. Five acres is much more than just that. The pics don't show all of it.
Besides, just for perspective, you know what else sits on one acre? The Burj al Arab.
...
My home sits on one acre of land, as do the the two homes east of me and the two homes west of me. That's five acres. If somebody yelled from the corner of the second house to the left, another person would have no problem hearing it at the opposite corner of the second house on the right.
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My home sits on one acre of land, as do the the two homes east of me and the two homes west of me. That's five acres. If somebody yelled from the corner of the second house to the left, another person would have no problem hearing it at the opposite corner of the second house on the right.
...
Internet access on the island not good enough for web cam? No problem...just use binoculars.
I got an instant visual image of that midget guy from the 70's movies with MagicTux's head. Too bad I'm not handy with photoshop.
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