Bitcoin isn't worth it for consumers. And that will stop adoption.

cellard

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Quote from: johnyj on June 20, 2015, 06:48:37 PM

Bitcoin isn't worth it for people who don't have bitcoin. But if people have some bitcoin, things will be different

People do not become bitcoin consumers over night. They typically first purchase bitcoin, then hold it for years, and then when their bitcoin have raised in value multiple times, they become the bitcoin consumer Grin

Yeah but people don't want to convert their money into Bitcoin usually because they don't feel a need to do so, at least not in the developed world or exceptional situations. For example if I lived in Greece I sure as hell would put 50% of my wealth into it, but if you live in Germany or something, people aren't going to see a point beyond using it like a Gold investment in most cases.

dblink

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Quote from: PenAndPaper on November 23, 2013, 03:38:32 PM

Because you 'll probably be able to make payments just by clicking a link. No logins, no forms to fill, no need to move money in and out of payment proceross, minimal fees and a lot more.
But for all those things to happen, wider acceptance must be established so that the price can stabilize.

You are right, I did payments with bitcoins and found it hassle free compared to other payment methods. There is many advantage in Bitcoin money transfer comparing to conventional banking process is secure and reliable, sometime while we buy online ticket through banking transactions, if any error takes place, we have to wait for payback for longer time.

1986

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Quote from: poncho32 on June 21, 2015, 04:40:07 AM

Quote from: galbros on June 20, 2015, 03:58:20 PM

Quote from: BittBurger on November 23, 2013, 03:31:24 PM

All the motivation is for merchants. They avoid merchant fees. They get no chargebacks. But they're also going to get no sales (aside from enthusiasts), because consumers have no incentive to use it, whatsoever.

Where are the perks for consumers, in a situation where they're buying something with bitcoin?

I think the idea is that merchants can give a discount for using bitcoin just like some do for cash. I know that Amagi Metals gives people who pay with bitcoin their "cash" price while people who pay with credit cards pay a higher rate. So the trick is how merchants encourage customers to use, if they do I think many will.

But otherwise you, and many other posters, are correct, there is no intrinsic advantage of bitcoin over other payment systems for consumers.

If chip and pin terminals start getting hacked then Bitcoin will have an advantage over debit cards. There are already skimming devices that people attach to ATMs, and these have made me wary of using any ATM outside a bank. If I could choose to use a Bitcoin ATM on the street I would prefer it over a normal cash ATM on the street.

You could just as easily if not easier hack peoples bitcoin wallets too. Most people will have to send their coins over wifi and via aps when they're out and about and both apps your phone and wi-fi are all vulnerable. Most people also don't use very secure passwords so if someone has your log in details the password could be relatively easy to bruteforce.

poncho32

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Quote from: galbros on June 20, 2015, 03:58:20 PM

Quote from: BittBurger on November 23, 2013, 03:31:24 PM

All the motivation is for merchants. They avoid merchant fees. They get no chargebacks. But they're also going to get no sales (aside from enthusiasts), because consumers have no incentive to use it, whatsoever.

Where are the perks for consumers, in a situation where they're buying something with bitcoin?

I think the idea is that merchants can give a discount for using bitcoin just like some do for cash. I know that Amagi Metals gives people who pay with bitcoin their "cash" price while people who pay with credit cards pay a higher rate. So the trick is how merchants encourage customers to use, if they do I think many will.

But otherwise you, and many other posters, are correct, there is no intrinsic advantage of bitcoin over other payment systems for consumers.

If chip and pin terminals start getting hacked then Bitcoin will have an advantage over debit cards. There are already skimming devices that people attach to ATMs, and these have made me wary of using any ATM outside a bank. If I could choose to use a Bitcoin ATM on the street I would prefer it over a normal cash ATM on the street.

1986

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Quote from: vrm86 on June 18, 2015, 01:15:51 PM

What only worries me, is previously mentioned time delay between sending coins and receiving confirmation. In brick and mortar stores it could be a problem. On the other hand BTC is a great solution for all types of on-line payments (especially fast and micro buys such as music, games DLCs, newspaper access and many more). On that field Bitcoin has many advantages over bank transfers and I am sure it will succeed.

The transaction is instant and you will pay the price of the value its worth when you sent it, but most merchants or 'brick and mortar stores' will use a payment processor anyway so they will get the fiat value in their account the moment the coins are sent.

Amph

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Quote from: johnyj on June 20, 2015, 06:48:37 PM

Bitcoin isn't worth it for people who don't have bitcoin. But if people have some bitcoin, things will be different

People do not become bitcoin consumers over night. They typically first purchase bitcoin, then hold it for years, and then when their bitcoin have raised in value multiple times, they become the bitcoin consumer Grin

the problem is that they want it for free, because they see it as a scam, and they dion't want to invest a penny in it

there is no trust in it at all, and this is preventing bitcoin from growing

it is also true that the trust is build from big merchants first, then they will incite customers to use it

dollarneed

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I think bitcoin is really worh for me as a bitcoin's costumer i will adoption bitcoin as a payment i feel free to make payment just by cliking a link,without login, forms to fill and would'nt need my identity,of course minimal fee to and many more, i spend my bitcoin to purchase vps,my intrnet conection and even converted it to the fiat so i feel bitcoin is awesome technology that have a multifuncion for me as a alternative payment.

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Bitcoin isn't worth it for people who don't have bitcoin. But if people have some bitcoin, things will be different

People do not become bitcoin consumers over night. They typically first purchase bitcoin, then hold it for years, and then when their bitcoin have raised in value multiple times, they become the bitcoin consumer Grin

galbros

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Quote from: BittBurger on November 23, 2013, 03:31:24 PM

All the motivation is for merchants. They avoid merchant fees. They get no chargebacks. But they're also going to get no sales (aside from enthusiasts), because consumers have no incentive to use it, whatsoever.

Where are the perks for consumers, in a situation where they're buying something with bitcoin?

I think the idea is that merchants can give a discount for using bitcoin just like some do for cash. I know that Amagi Metals gives people who pay with bitcoin their "cash" price while people who pay with credit cards pay a higher rate. So the trick is how merchants encourage customers to use, if they do I think many will.

But otherwise you, and many other posters, are correct, there is no intrinsic advantage of bitcoin over other payment systems for consumers.

pereira4

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Quote from: bitnanigans on June 20, 2015, 11:58:17 AM

It'll be worth it when the barrier for entry is low or virtually non-existent and retailers are accepting bitcoin en masse. There is currently no incentive to convert to bitcoin and spend, except for the discounts which are rarer.

The incentive can be found when you buy overseas, but not much more. Other than that, people don't "feel" there's something wrong with Paypal or credit cards or whatever. The uses of Bitcoin are much deeper than that and after those are covered, general use of BTC will become a normalized thing, specially in the society we are approaching where there will be no cash anymore.

bitnanigans

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It'll be worth it when the barrier for entry is low or virtually non-existent and retailers are accepting bitcoin en masse. There is currently no incentive to convert to bitcoin and spend, except for the discounts which are rarer.

zeraTunerse

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Quote from: vrm86 on June 18, 2015, 01:15:51 PM

Price fluctuations of Bitcoin attracts people that are looking for opportunity to earn some money. Most of them will realise, that besides investment asset, it has huge potential as a tender. So BTC is in its early age as it is still vulnerable to speculations, but it is not as bad when coin is only 6 years old.

What only worries me, is previously mentioned time delay between sending coins and receiving confirmation. In brick and mortar stores it could be a problem. On the other hand BTC is a great solution for all types of on-line payments (especially fast and micro buys such as music, games DLCs, newspaper access and many more). On that field Bitcoin has many advantages over bank transfers and I am sure it will succeed.

If you compare Bitcoins with the traditional banking system then it is sure that Bitcoin will win the race and comparatively also win the trust of the people as everyone wants to get rid of the banking system. So holding bitcoin is like owing own's bank and you can make transaction from anywhere and at anytime.

vrm86

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Price fluctuations of Bitcoin attracts people that are looking for opportunity to earn some money. Most of them will realise, that besides investment asset, it has huge potential as a tender. So BTC is in its early age as it is still vulnerable to speculations, but it is not as bad when coin is only 6 years old.

What only worries me, is previously mentioned time delay between sending coins and receiving confirmation. In brick and mortar stores it could be a problem. On the other hand BTC is a great solution for all types of on-line payments (especially fast and micro buys such as music, games DLCs, newspaper access and many more). On that field Bitcoin has many advantages over bank transfers and I am sure it will succeed.

mearylll

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Quote from: Ryson on June 17, 2015, 04:59:43 PM

This is a disadvantage for the consumer specially if the bitcoin value fluctuate. But for merchants they have all the advantage from no chargeback, low transaction fees and no merchant charge.

People who have faith in the bitcoins will never stop the adoption and will continue to use the bitcoins irrespective of the value that bitcoin has to offer and adoption is lower at present due to the price fluctuations and that doesn't attract a newbie who wants to get into bitcoins.

Hollingsworth

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I am reading a book called "The Power of Gold"

It's a history of gold currency throughout the world. The underlying book thesis is that countries that minted
a reliable, precious, and well recognized currency were the most advanced culturally and economically.

Nations that minted gold coins were sought after, because of the stability and reliability of their currency. With this store of wealth they encouraged trading, exploration, the arts and sciences. The bezant, florin, gulden, and ducat were the standards of currency for hundreds of years. As were silver coins.

I think of bitcoin as the precious "gold coins" of today...because it is so innovative with the blockchain concept and open ledger.
And it is very empowering for the individual, possibly it's greatest asset. Bitcoin is barely a decade old, and if not co-opted, could be as revolutionary as the internet.

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Best practice of bitcoin is long term saving, not consumption. For consumption you better spend inflative fiat money as much as possible. Of course you can spend bitcoin after a long term saving period, but as long as there are exchanges, no need to directly spend bitcoin

Bitcoin is the most powerful tool in capital virtualization. In future, after bitcoin has established itself as the most credible digital asset, you will never need to spend even a single satoshi of your bitcoin holding, you just need to sign a message with your private key and approve that you are the rightful owner of certain amount of bitcoin, then banks will send truck load of fiat money to you to spend, without interest Grin

Ryson

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This is a disadvantage for the consumer specially if the bitcoin value fluctuate. But for merchants they have all the advantage from no chargeback, low transaction fees and no merchant charge.

User101

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Quote from: gluk64 on November 26, 2013, 05:28:43 AM

Quote from: HappyLizard on November 26, 2013, 02:43:15 AM

No one in their right mind is going to use BTC as a currency as long as they expect the value to keep rising.
You know your cash will be worth less this time next year, thats the incentive to spend it.

In the 19th century, during the golden standard, there was a constant deflation. So what? Why spend gold and silver, if you can buy more for them next year? Because you need to eat today!

Even now we have a deflation with a lot of things. Why buy a new smartphone now, if in 3 months it's gonna be much cheaper, and in 1 year it will fall to half its price?

If bitcoin users have all their cash in BTC they will have to spend it some time.

All those deflation theories would mean that the Businessmodel of a credit card would never take off.
Because consumers are so wise with their spendings. WRONG consumers are fkin morons that spent their money as long as they have it and take credit if someone can give it to them.

Same goes for electronics, lets take smartphones, with the deflation theory Apples Iphone success would be never possible. because everyone knows that one year later apple will bring a phone twice as good for the same price, thats a HUGE deflation, not some 1-2% and still nobody give a fuck. Consumers camping days in front of the store to get one.

Deflation theory in my opinion an over exaggerated myth, to make sure the tax payer keeps using fiat money and doesn't question status quo.

gluk64

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Quote from: PenAndPaper on November 27, 2013, 07:39:08 AM

How exactly you can be sure about that?

Please read the whole discussion. We're arguing whether one will use bitcoins or not given its deflationary design.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm gonna stay bullish as long as fiat policies continue same way as now.

PenAndPaper

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Quote from: gluk64 on November 26, 2013, 07:29:09 PM

and I can be sure that it will have at least that purchasing power (and probably more).

How exactly you can be sure about that? Ok everyone here is bullish given the last months meteoric rise but you can't be certain whatsoever.

Topic: Bitcoin isn't worth it for consumers. And that will stop adoption. (Read 9891 times)