Bitcoin millionaires, tell us your story! - page 3.

BittBurger

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1001

Quote from: 600watt on November 26, 2013, 05:51:32 PM

Quote from: hashstash on November 26, 2013, 02:44:19 PM

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

move to germany while holding on to your coins for 12 months. overhere NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX in bitcoin gains if you hold longer than 12 months. you save 200 k $. after a few months, move back...

http://www.coindesk.com/german-government-relieves-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-positions/

speaking of future bitcoin millionaires: here is the party you shouldn´t miss:

https://btc1k.com/

I sent you a PM on this but ill ask publicly too in case anyone else with info can comment. Can one just hop on a plane to Germany, get a crappy little apartment (or even stay in a hotel), and cash out all their bitcoins free of capital gains tax? Don't you have to be a citizen, and open a Bank account? And can you really withdraw hundreds of thousands of dollars without the german bank asking questions, blocking it, accusing you of money laundering, or simply rejecting it? These matters are usually a lot more complex than that. And when you go back home, how exactly do you bring hundreds of thousands of dollars with you?

600watt

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 2106

Quote from: hashstash on November 26, 2013, 02:44:19 PM

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

move to germany while holding on to your coins for 12 months. overhere NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX in bitcoin gains if you hold longer than 12 months. you save 200 k $. after a few months, move back...

http://www.coindesk.com/german-government-relieves-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-positions/

speaking of future bitcoin millionaires: here is the party you shouldn´t miss:

https://btc1k.com/

2_Thumbs_Up

sr. member

Activity: 323

Merit: 251

Quote from: Hawker on November 26, 2013, 04:27:45 PM

Quote from: 2_Thumbs_Up on November 26, 2013, 02:40:39 PM

One million is more than enough to retire. Average return on stocks has historically been ~10% before inflation. Put your money in an index fund and withdraw 3-4% each year and you got 30-40k to live on, and some pretty good margins in case the market goes really wrong. Most likely, you will still have enough left after expenses to see your capital grow.

Math:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

Its worth checking what the average payout to investors since 1990 has been. Its a lot lower than you think...

You can cherry-pick any time period to prove whatever you want. But past performance does not determine future results. So the question then becomes which period will best represent the future. Unless you have a crystal ball I'll go with the biggest data set availible of 100+ years. That includes the great depression and still averages a return of almost 10% yearly.

Besides, it's not like the time period you chose is absolutely horrible. The S&P500 has still yielded a gain of 4.3 times your principal since Jan 1990. That is an average of 7+% yearly, so even during this historically bad period you could have cashed out 3-4%, lived on that and earn money over time in the process. I'm being conservative when I tell you 1 million is enough to retire.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5Egspc+interactive#symbol=%5Egspc;range=my;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: 2_Thumbs_Up on November 26, 2013, 02:40:39 PM

One million is more than enough to retire. Average return on stocks has historically been ~10% before inflation. Put your money in an index fund and withdraw 3-4% each year and you got 30-40k to live on, and some pretty good margins in case the market goes really wrong. Most likely, you will still have enough left after expenses to see your capital grow.

Math:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

Its worth checking what the average payout to investors since 1990 has been. Its a lot lower than you think...

tvbcof

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1276

Quote from: hashstash on November 26, 2013, 02:44:19 PM

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

My understanding is that it is a misnomer to say flatly 20% and that the rate is based on one's 'earned income' level. The Wikipedia page I pointed to earlier seems to describe the same. It seems to indicate that the rate can be much lower if one has no job or other source of 'qualifying' income.

Accd to Wikipedia, the additional percentage over $200k is new-ish and associated with Obamacare. While I dis-like Obamacare and would rather see a single-payer system or at least a public option, I do like that they are getting at least some money out of people who engineered and exploit the long term capital gains loophole. It would be ironic if I myself got 'burnt', but I can only a complain so much.

We might end up in a funny scenario where I pay quite a large amount of money for Obamacare, but do not receive benefits because I disagree with it on philosophical grounds and don't wish my money to go towards making the parasitic and lobbyist heavy health care industry and corrupt politicians even more rich.

hashstash

newbie

Activity: 3

Merit: 0

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

2_Thumbs_Up

sr. member

Activity: 323

Merit: 251

One million is more than enough to retire. Average return on stocks has historically been ~10% before inflation. Put your money in an index fund and withdraw 3-4% each year and you got 30-40k to live on, and some pretty good margins in case the market goes really wrong. Most likely, you will still have enough left after expenses to see your capital grow.

Math:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

data

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

While a million dollars might not be enough to retire, it certainly makes life a lot more pleasant. Absolutely low risk investments will get you about 20k each year in addition to what you are normally earning; a good spread might as well give you 40-50. That is about what I make right now as a PhD student. Alternatively, get out of the rent game and buy yourself a nice house, keep the rest.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Johnny Bitcoinseed on November 26, 2013, 07:43:33 AM

Just trying to help. Don't gloss over the hit of taxes and inflation. Tales of guaranteed 4, 5, and 10% interest are often just that. And you could lose it all. As others have mentioned, sitting on a million dollars invites all sorts of unwanted attention: .gov LOVES to confiscate in one way or another.

Many of you do not know the full brunt of .gov confiscation of wealth. When you work for low wages you actually get more than you pay in (goods and services such as roads, fire protection etc). HOWEVER, after a certain level of income you will see that you are hemorrhaging gads of money into government coffers - in effect supporting everyone else. If you are into socialism now, you won't be when the fruits of your labor and intelligent investing are stripped away from you at the point of a gun and given to other people who did not earn it.

I maintain that getting your first million is actually the easy part. It's holding onto it in such a way that you can live free on it without having to work - that's hard.

Of course, if YOU got your hands on a mil your experience would be different. Of course.

That is not correct. If you are blessed enough to live in a well run country, the higher your earnings more value you get from the educated workforce, the legal system and all the other good stuff that comes from being in a good place. That's why so many of the rich have bases in New York and London.

zeetubes

sr. member

Activity: 371

Merit: 250

Anyone who is already a bitcoin millionaire probably has a few technical smarts, not to mention some decent sized balls not to have sold through the amazing ups and downs. That sort of person would probably not retire, but instead start up a business enhancing the bitcoin infrastructure. Why waste all that knowledge? And there are so many opportunities to improve what is out there now.

OTOH if you have broad enough hobbies, it is quite possible to retire on a mil and there are many great and very cheap places where the weather, utilities, medical systems and lifestyle etc are just fantastic. For $50-80K or even less, you can buy a nice condo in four such countries and spend a few months each year in different places and rent them out the rest of the time.

Great thread btw.

Johnny Bitcoinseed

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Johnny Bitcoinseed

Just trying to help. Don't gloss over the hit of taxes and inflation. Tales of guaranteed 4, 5, and 10% interest are often just that. And you could lose it all. As others have mentioned, sitting on a million dollars invites all sorts of unwanted attention: .gov LOVES to confiscate in one way or another.

Many of you do not know the full brunt of .gov confiscation of wealth. When you work for low wages you actually get more than you pay in (goods and services such as roads, fire protection etc). HOWEVER, after a certain level of income you will see that you are hemorrhaging gads of money into government coffers - in effect supporting everyone else. If you are into socialism now, you won't be when the fruits of your labor and intelligent investing are stripped away from you at the point of a gun and given to other people who did not earn it.

I maintain that getting your first million is actually the easy part. It's holding onto it in such a way that you can live free on it without having to work - that's hard.

Of course, if YOU got your hands on a mil your experience would be different. Of course.

fuggedit

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Do as I say to do--But don't. (Mind Blown)

Wow, you guys are truly inspirations. I think if all you entrepenuerial guys could teach the rest of us a bit we could all make bitcoin the next big thing. I know I am a converter of people at my college. When I tell people in my class I bought a few at 90 and now they are 900, they are excited enough to ask me all about them and how to invest. Most of my professors actually moreso....

wachtwoord

legendary

Activity: 2324

Merit: 1125

He is right that $1M isn't a lot. 0.6% (that is 6 in every 1000 people or 29M people) of the WORLD populace (this includes poor stricken regions where a lot can't even eat) has a net worth of $1M or more (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-02/its-1-world-who-owns-what-223-trillion-global-wealth).

El Dude

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 500

Quote from: Johnny Bitcoinseed on November 25, 2013, 05:18:38 PM

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore. I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement. But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65. One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes). Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money. Interest rates are near zero. Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

interest rate in offshore banks are 5% , if you put a 1 million , you get 50 000 clean . Your telling me you can't live of $50 000 a year ?

Mondy

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

I dont think bitionaires will bother telling us about their financial state.

Just like saying: Fiat Usd millionaires tell us your story. lol

maurya78

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Fat chance of drawing any honest responses on this thread Wink

beetcoin

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: justusranvier on November 26, 2013, 02:35:19 AM

Quote from: Johnny Bitcoinseed on November 25, 2013, 05:18:38 PM

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore. I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement. But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65. One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes). Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money. Interest rates are near zero. Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

You've successfully proved that one million dollars is not enough to live comfortably in the USA.

If you've got that much, however, you are in no way confined to living in the most expensive police state in the world.

word.. but it's not that easy to pick up and leave when you have family, friends, or possibly a wife/husband and kids.

600watt

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 2106

Quote from: Dafar on November 25, 2013, 12:10:59 AM

I own 10 bitcoins and oh boy let me tell you... it feels great to be a millionaire at age 25

you will be one with 30, just wait. (and don´t sell)

justusranvier

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1009

Quote from: Johnny Bitcoinseed on November 25, 2013, 05:18:38 PM

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore. I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement. But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65. One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes). Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money. Interest rates are near zero. Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

You've successfully proved that one million dollars is not enough to live comfortably in the USA.

If you've got that much, however, you are in no way confined to living in the most expensive police state in the world.

tvbcof

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1276

Quote from: Hawker on November 25, 2013, 08:01:41 AM

...
I sold 500 BTC for $119.99 and I used the fiat to buy a nice car: http://www.lexus.co.uk/car-models/rx/rx-450h/ In real terms, it cost me less than $2000.
...

Looks like a modernized version of the Ford LTD that my grandfather had.

Topic: Bitcoin millionaires, tell us your story! - page 3. (Read 20466 times)