Topic: Bitcoin or gold? - page 524. (Read 984460 times)
no matter what happen, i prefer gold for now
All major currencies of the western world will collapse in a few weeks or months, driven by the collapse of the USD. What they are doing relative to each other is meaningless at this stage of the collapse of the system. People who hold the strong belief that the system cannot break will be surprised very soon.
For the USD to appreciate against other currencies, all it takes is a higher than normal demand for USD. High demand for a currency can come from many sources, including an unwinding of USD denominated assets and positions outside the USA. The rise of the USD has been happening while commodities were going down very quickly. There are trillions of various forms of (mostly OTC) derivative instruments that are based on commodities and most of them all over the world are denominated in USD. The collapse in the energy and other commodity sector has triggered a silent derivatives counterparty bomb that we can’t see because of the intentional opacity of the OTC derivatives market. But you don’t have a 50% collapse in a key economic commodity like oil – a commodity which has $100’s of billions in OTC derivatives securities wrapped around it – without some kind of counterparty default tsunami that has been triggered. We are actually in the middle of a meltdown of the western financial system. The absurdity of the derivative exposure of all the players remains mostly hidden, but with the collapse of the greek economy and debt, the collapse of the energy and other commodities, it will very soon be acknowledged that the positions of each player CANNOT be unwounded without leaving everyone bankrupt. The game is literally up. People going into September without diversification away from FIAT and into directly held precious metals, bitcoin or sustainable estates will be left with nothing.
The shooting up of the USD in the past few months is a sign that the great unwinding has begun. After the peak of the USD index, the descent to 0 will be incredibly more sudden. Completely vertical in fact and happening in a matter of hours or days.
The debate of this post should be about what is an optimal ratio to hold between Bitcoin, Gold, Silver and land outside US. Not about when the USD will collapse.
Come on! Don't be so pessimistic... It's nothing a little MOAR QE can't fix!!!For the USD to appreciate against other currencies, all it takes is a higher than normal demand for USD. High demand for a currency can come from many sources, including an unwinding of USD denominated assets and positions outside the USA. The rise of the USD has been happening while commodities were going down very quickly. There are trillions of various forms of (mostly OTC) derivative instruments that are based on commodities and most of them all over the world are denominated in USD. The collapse in the energy and other commodity sector has triggered a silent derivatives counterparty bomb that we can’t see because of the intentional opacity of the OTC derivatives market. But you don’t have a 50% collapse in a key economic commodity like oil – a commodity which has $100’s of billions in OTC derivatives securities wrapped around it – without some kind of counterparty default tsunami that has been triggered. We are actually in the middle of a meltdown of the western financial system. The absurdity of the derivative exposure of all the players remains mostly hidden, but with the collapse of the greek economy and debt, the collapse of the energy and other commodities, it will very soon be acknowledged that the positions of each player CANNOT be unwounded without leaving everyone bankrupt. The game is literally up. People going into September without diversification away from FIAT and into directly held precious metals, bitcoin or sustainable estates will be left with nothing.
The shooting up of the USD in the past few months is a sign that the great unwinding has begun. After the peak of the USD index, the descent to 0 will be incredibly more sudden. Completely vertical in fact and happening in a matter of hours or days.
The debate of this post should be about what is an optimal ratio to hold between Bitcoin, Gold, Silver and land outside US. Not about when the USD will collapse.
I'd say the things you speak of will not happen. At least for the next 5 years or so.
Meanwhile, the smartasses around here can continue pointless arguing over which is better between gold and bitcoin.
Till few weeks ago I was thinking Bitcoin is the best way to keep your savings.I would say now Gold is Gold and always will remain same but some part of the savings should be converted in Bitcoins too.It is always advised to not keep all the eggs in one bucket.
what made you change your mind regarding best method for keeping savings ?If you follow the max block size debate you will realize that bitcoin faces some serious limits when it comes to scalability. You can't have mass adoption without compromising decentralization. One needs digital storage and bandwitdh to be part of the bitcoin system. The increase in storage and bandwith requirements are reasonably proportional to the number of transactions processed by the network.
Those guys agresively advocating for a hard fork to increase the max block size made me very worried about the future of the system. Ultimately, bitcoin is a human creation and it will fail eventually. Gold will survive.
So, it's much safer to choose gold instead of bitcoin.
But personally I'm choosing none of them. Gold is a barbarous relic used by savage bearded barbarians in the Middle East and is not legal tender around here, and you are probably a dubious citizen if you hold it. Central banks are holding it just to show off to each other.
Bitcoin is far superior as a currency in every single aspect and for these exact reasons, though gold has intrinsic value as a precious metal and could - depending how well or bad bitcoin does - hold its value longer. I would still prefer to take the chance with bitcoin though as I think bitcoin will become worth more than gold again in the near future.
Now we got crypocurrency, e-banking, e-money, and such. While fiat money is also in the verge of collapse, i think gold will fall faster eventually.
There might be a case to be made that the more abstract finance becomes, the more important it is that there's something with value that stands completely outside it.
As long as central banks and governments exist there'll be some sort of place for gold even if the public has zero desire. The next few decades will be a pretty surreal ride whatever happens.
Yes but ethereal money has also benefits, that are very attractive let's see:
-Civil forfeiture immune
-Semi-anonymous (your medical purchases, and kinky sex toy purchases are anonymous)
-Ultra fast transfer speed
-Ultra low transfer cost
-Bail-out & Bail-in immune
-Secure
-3rd party risk eliminated (unless you are stupid enough to keep all your btc in an online wallet)
-Opens up now Earning Money Opportunities
-New jobs, and new business opportunities
-Immaterial & easy to carry & no security/storage cost
-CAPITAL & BORDER CONTROL IMMUNE
-CENTRAL BANK MONEY PRINTING SCAM IMMUNE
-NO RACIAL,SEXUAL,RELIGIOUS, OR OTHER DISCRIMINATION HERE
ETC.
Now you see gold is very primitive VS these aspects.
Bitcoin is far superior as a currency in every single aspect and for these exact reasons, though gold has intrinsic value as a precious metal and could - depending how well or bad bitcoin does - hold its value longer. I would still prefer to take the chance with bitcoin though as I think bitcoin will become worth more than gold again in the near future.
Till few weeks ago I was thinking Bitcoin is the best way to keep your savings.I would say now Gold is Gold and always will remain same but some part of the savings should be converted in Bitcoins too.It is always advised to not keep all the eggs in one bucket.
To me they're two completely different things and it depends on whether you like to take risks or prefer a steady investment. As for an investment I don't think gold is that great but it will hold it's value well, whereas I think there is huge potential in bitcoin if you have the balls and patience as it wont happen over night, but bitcoin is far riskier but the rewards are potentially there.
It's not crap, yet, although its on the path of extinction.
I bet nobody saw the charriot go out of trend in 1910, yet look in 2010 almost nobody uses it anymore.
Things change, and one day bitcoin will die too, but i hope it will live atleast 1000 years
It's crap to me, but what I think doesn't count.
It has thousands of years of pedigree but the world is moving so fast now that it might fall out of favour faster than we think, or perhaps the rush to everything virtual will make the tangible that much more attractive.
Whatever happens I won't be owning gold for any reason other than it looking pretty.
Within the last 1000 years gold fell out of favor only twice (strictly speaking only once actually). That were dramatic changes in the human history. Whether or not what happens with our lives today accounts for such yet remains to be seen...
Thats bad logic, its like saying the dinosaurs have only become extinct once.
Maybe my logic is bad, but your analogy is meaningless at best. Dinosaurs didn't rise from the dead. Strictly speaking, they didn't even become extinct. Birds are dinosaurs from the theropod group of such...
In fact, I didn't even get what you meant to say
I would keep some in both. There is good to be had from diversifying one's assets.
how much would you keep? i was thinking about 66% and 33% for bitcoin, but i'm not so sure, someone is talking about a good instability of gold which is coming soon and can probably tank it to sub 1000
bitcoin instead seems fairly stable, despite some swings here and there, which i think are normal in this market, one cannot have perfect stability with a stuck price all the time
also i was thinking about investing in silver maybe, how the scene is there? and why everyone is talking only about gold as a good alternative, there is nothing else that is worth it to invest?
Now we got crypocurrency, e-banking, e-money, and such. While fiat money is also in the verge of collapse, i think gold will fall faster eventually.
There might be a case to be made that the more abstract finance becomes, the more important it is that there's something with value that stands completely outside it.
As long as central banks and governments exist there'll be some sort of place for gold even if the public has zero desire. The next few decades will be a pretty surreal ride whatever happens.
Yes but ethereal money has also benefits, that are very attractive let's see:
-Civil forfeiture immune
-Semi-anonymous (your medical purchases, and kinky sex toy purchases are anonymous)
-Ultra fast transfer speed
-Ultra low transfer cost
-Bail-out & Bail-in immune
-Secure
-3rd party risk eliminated (unless you are stupid enough to keep all your btc in an online wallet)
-Opens up now Earning Money Opportunities
-New jobs, and new business opportunities
-Immaterial & easy to carry & no security/storage cost
-CAPITAL & BORDER CONTROL IMMUNE
-CENTRAL BANK MONEY PRINTING SCAM IMMUNE
-NO RACIAL,SEXUAL,RELIGIOUS, OR OTHER DISCRIMINATION HERE
ETC.
Now you see gold is very primitive VS these aspects.
Now we got crypocurrency, e-banking, e-money, and such. While fiat money is also in the verge of collapse, i think gold will fall faster eventually.
There might be a case to be made that the more abstract finance becomes, the more important it is that there's something with value that stands completely outside it.
As long as central banks and governments exist there'll be some sort of place for gold even if the public has zero desire. The next few decades will be a pretty surreal ride whatever happens.
It's not crap, yet, although its on the path of extinction.
I bet nobody saw the charriot go out of trend in 1910, yet look in 2010 almost nobody uses it anymore.
Things change, and one day bitcoin will die too, but i hope it will live atleast 1000 years
It's crap to me, but what I think doesn't count.
It has thousands of years of pedigree but the world is moving so fast now that it might fall out of favour faster than we think, or perhaps the rush to everything virtual will make the tangible that much more attractive.
Whatever happens I won't be owning gold for any reason other than it looking pretty.
Within the last 1000 years gold fell out of favor only twice (strictly speaking only once actually). That were dramatic changes in the human history. Whether or not what happens with our lives today accounts for such yet remains to be seen...
Thats bad logic, its like saying the dinosaurs have only become extinct once.
There has never existed a time in history which was so different than the past. Before the 20th century, everything was almost the same.
More or less: wars, peasants, castles, people talking stories to eachother, average life for everyone even the royalty.
Now: we got cars, internet, radio,tv, and every wonder that you can imagine.
Seriously the 21 century is radically different from the past 1 million years of human history , and this technology has already made like 90% of previous human activities obsolete.
Gold only had a purpuse in a merchant economy, with not high tech alternatives, like the ancient and middle ages and renessaince.
Now we got crypocurrency, e-banking, e-money, and such. While fiat money is also in the verge of collapse, i think gold will fall faster eventually.
Within the last 1000 years gold fell out of favor only twice.
What were the circumstances?
The first time it was the devastating epidemic of Black Death in Europe in the 14th century when half the population died out, and gold lost its shine for real. The second time it was Inca gold that flooded Europe in the 16th century, which heavily affected gold prices back then...
The true punisher was the Black Death indeed
It's crap to me, but what I think doesn't count.
It has thousands of years of pedigree but the world is moving so fast now that it might fall out of favour faster than we think, or perhaps the rush to everything virtual will make the tangible that much more attractive.
Whatever happens I won't be owning gold for any reason other than it looking pretty.
will really lose pace compared to bitcoin has at the moment
Within the last 1000 years gold fell out of favor only twice.
What were the circumstances?
It's not crap, yet, although its on the path of extinction.
I bet nobody saw the charriot go out of trend in 1910, yet look in 2010 almost nobody uses it anymore.
Things change, and one day bitcoin will die too, but i hope it will live atleast 1000 years
It's crap to me, but what I think doesn't count.
It has thousands of years of pedigree but the world is moving so fast now that it might fall out of favour faster than we think, or perhaps the rush to everything virtual will make the tangible that much more attractive.
Whatever happens I won't be owning gold for any reason other than it looking pretty.
Within the last 1000 years gold fell out of favor only twice (strictly speaking only once actually). That were dramatic changes in the human history. Whether or not what happens with our lives today accounts for such yet remains to be seen...
Both
It's not crap, yet, although its on the path of extinction.
I bet nobody saw the charriot go out of trend in 1910, yet look in 2010 almost nobody uses it anymore.
Things change, and one day bitcoin will die too, but i hope it will live atleast 1000 years
It's crap to me, but what I think doesn't count.
It has thousands of years of pedigree but the world is moving so fast now that it might fall out of favour faster than we think, or perhaps the rush to everything virtual will make the tangible that much more attractive.
Whatever happens I won't be owning gold for any reason other than it looking pretty.
Gold is just a piece of metal, mostly like any other metal, but scarcer.
The scarcity and the shinyness gives it's value, which is lame.
Bitcoin has real high-tech network behind it, and a cutting edge technology for 21 century financing.
Gold is just a bronze age primitive metal.
The scarcity and the shinyness gives it's value, which is lame.
Bitcoin has real high-tech network behind it, and a cutting edge technology for 21 century financing.
Gold is just a bronze age primitive metal.
It has the faith of an awful lot of people. That's all that counts. If everyone believed used sanitary towels had magical qualities they'd be hoarding them instead.
I think gold is crap. Enough people disagree to make my opinion irrelevant.
It's not crap, yet, although its on the path of extinction.
I bet nobody saw the charriot go out of trend in 1910, yet look in 2010 almost nobody uses it anymore.
Things change, and one day bitcoin will die too, but i hope it will live atleast 1000 years
Gold is just a piece of metal, mostly like any other metal, but scarcer.
The scarcity and the shinyness gives it's value, which is lame.
Bitcoin has real high-tech network behind it, and a cutting edge technology for 21 century financing.
Gold is just a bronze age primitive metal.
The scarcity and the shinyness gives it's value, which is lame.
Bitcoin has real high-tech network behind it, and a cutting edge technology for 21 century financing.
Gold is just a bronze age primitive metal.
It has the faith of an awful lot of people. That's all that counts. If everyone believed used sanitary towels had magical qualities they'd be hoarding them instead.
I think gold is crap. Enough people disagree to make my opinion irrelevant.
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