Topic: Bitcoin or gold? - page 523. (Read 984460 times)

Yea but gold mining isn't necessary, while bitcoin mining it is.

I disagree with satoshi on that, the price is always set by supply and demand (unless its rigged at which point it doesnt matter).


Yea but why would you buy gold if bitcoin is a better alternative. Sure there could be some rich guys in India that dont know or dont trust bitcoin yet, but once they begin to trust bitcoin more, i`m sure bitcoin will prevail.

Not to mention that after a bail-in haircut theft session begins, the popular targets for the haircut will be: saving accounts,checking accounts and gold vaults. Bitcoin cannot be stolen by that large amounts.



Sure but that is inflation hedging, you dont make ROI with that, you just keep your previously owned wealth.

With bitcoin you can do ROI as the bitcoin economy is rapidly expanding (without printing money schemes) and wont have "recession", because in a free market you cannot have recession as every minor tragedy is priced in rather than postponed for 8 year crash cycles.

The virtual supply is a concern, because it can be a pump and dump scheme, who knows maybe their plan is to surpress the price, buy it all up, and then when it starts to go up they will sell into the rise (very popular trading tactic), and then it will collapse back.

Since gold cant be used as a currency, i already told you that the only thing you can do is to BUY LOW & SELL HIGH (OR BUY HIGH & SELL LOW if you get suckered into the ride)

You have to understand that there are economies where the national currency is devalued at a rate that makes gold a much better prospect than holding the national currency for the long-term. India has a tradition of gold-buying and, not only that, but they actually consider gold as money and fiat as something useless to be dumped to get gold.

Some western economies with strong currencies do not see the issue of gold in the same light, but, then again, western economies are not suffering from rampant inflation or rampant currency devaluation etc.

In the end of the day, gold is priced by fiat. And if fiat money supply is increasing rapidly, then the ratio of fiat supply:gold supply favors an increase in the price of gold. So it's not a foregone conclusion that gold is a sinking ship etc etc. In fact, maths point to the exact opposite happening as fiat supplies increase.

The fact that gold/silver prices are suppressed by virtual supply, is one more element we have to consider. If one man can make a campaign like "crash jp morgan, buy silver" and take silver from <10$ to 50$ for the lolz, then that doesn't really provide much confidence for the fiat scam.

Remember that the mining scheme of BTC is economically modeled, in a way, after gold mining and commodity production costs as fair value.

Satoshi said: "The price of any commodity tends to gravitate toward the production cost. If the price is below cost, then production slows down. If the price is above cost, profit can be made by generating and selling more. At the same time, the increased production would increase the difficulty, pushing the cost of generating towards the price. In later years, when new coin generation is a small percentage of the existing supply, market price will dictate the cost of production more than the other way around."

BTC and Gold, in a way, are similar due to the energy-value-backing used to mine them.

yes this is correct way if somebody's going to invest in gold rather than bitcoin , gold also have some other advantages like in case if you need money but don't want to lose your gold, you could put it in a pawnshop and later pay the interest after you have money

If I got more money to invest then I will buy first gold than bitcoin reason is simple more stable and safe investment.

I think your idea of diversifying investments is very good but bitcoin as a investment for next 10 years selection is not correct. Just in last couple of years it went from few dollars to 1000+ and came back to 200+. If it can fluctuate so much then it is not a good investment for long term instead you can put some money and monitor every day to take some profit. The better long term investments may be like stocks, bonds, real estate and gold.

Pump and dumps only happen if the market cap is low (easy to manipulate), if its in the hands of a few, or if cheap credit (0%) is available to play in the market. Once the fiat money goes away, i`m sure considerably less pump and dumps will happen.

The price of bitcoin is not because of the bitcoin mining, bitcoin mining is because of the bitcoin price. If you would mine a worthless altcoin with tons of mining power, that would not give that coin value, furthermore your investment will directly go to the pockets of the miners because of inflation. Why would you give away money for free?

Bitcoin price reflects the 100,000 retailers, the 6 billion$ venture firms, and the countless other innovations and perks it brought into the world.
It's more like bitcoin miners are parasites leaching off the network to secure their own profits, which is fine, after all they keep the network alive.



Well bitcoin is both, since its the first currency ever that has an inflation rate tending towards 0% so its appealing.

But maybe some folks will sell at 10000$, thats their business, but that doesnt mean bitcoin wont become a global currency soon.

Speculators are in every currency, which is fine, they give market liquidity and small spread, but as a currency it can also be spent, so its not just a commodity only.


Yea because cash is predictable, and it will go to its intrinsic value of 0 soon. Bitcoin is more exciting, although we know it will go to 10,000$ , it can be an exciting ride for traders.

I think more people treat bitcoin as a commodity than a currency, the HODL squad that wont sell come hell or high water until it reaches $10k a bitcoin + the speculation forum here etc.

How many hours do people here stare at the bitcoin/currency charts - bet they dont do that with the cash in their pocket.

Spending BTC as an alternative to cash is still a novelty rather a day to day occurrence for most people

Yea but you still forget that bitcoin is a currency and gold is a commodity.

While bitcoin being a currency, it can be spent, so by definition it cannot be a pump & dump scheme. (atleast not that easy, given that the price is high now and market manipulation is harder than in 2013 with MT Gox inside jobs and fake account manipulation mostly)


Gold is a commodity, which means, from a point of a retail person, the only thing you can do with gold is to buy low and sell high. So it's obvious that if you bought a gold bar, you will eventually have to sell it (and who will buy your gold bar at a higher price than you bought, another investor... hmm sounds like a ponzi? = new investor pays off the old one), because it's not like you will go into a store and buy milk with it.

Thus Gold, by definition will be a pump & dump scheme forever, until they dont invent teleportation (to make gold transfer just as easy as bitcoin transfer)

A pump and dump that has occurred since the dawn of mankind then because thats how long gold has been idolized  lol

Why the price of bitcoin - if mining costs are irrelevant then?


Also sound like the "what have the romans ever done for us" speach from monty python

Most people will only use bitcoin to make cheap online transfers and there are multiple alternatives.

The only reason so many people here buy bitcoin because they have the belief it will go "to the moon" when the rest of the world jumps in and it becomes mainstream.

Please fix your quoting, your post is hard to read but i get it.

So basically your argument is that gold has a high price because of the mining costs, but thats a no argument.

Thats like saying I sell a rock for 20$ just because I draw a eye on it with a marker.

http://www.petrock.com/


It doesnt justify the high price, it make it look more like a scam or a hype. If the only thing that gives significant value (apart from the ones you put charts with) is central bank/ commercial bank hoarding (with printed money purchases=stealing from you through inflation to hoard this crap) and the mining cost which is a no argument; then your argument sucks and makes no sense.

If apart from jewelry,electronics,dentistry, etc uses, only central bank & other institutionals hoard it with some gold bugs, it makes it look like a scam.

Why? Because they artificially pump up the price and then exit from it by duping the retail gold bugs to buy their short orders. Thats what happens 99% of the time with trading. Institutionals come in, they hype it up, and then they exit the trade by seling their overinflated instrument to newcomer retailers.

A pump & dump scam.

Why is bitcoin better than any other alt coin eg. litecoin?

they perform the same function at a considerably lower price - just because the people say so?  Is because people are hoarding

Alright then I was a bit wrong, so that gives intrinsic value to gold, splendid.

However I still disagree with the gold price. If that is all what gives value to gold, then perhaps gold should be = to silver.

Why? Because silver fulfills the exact same demands as gold, yet silver has a considerably lower price.

There are 10 billion ounces of gold and 66 billion ounces of silver, so following your logic GOLD  should be:  SILVER PRICE * 6.6 = 15.38* 6.6 =101.58 $ / troy ounce (and that is only if the silver price is not overspeculated as well, which it is)

And its 1100$ due to cental bank hoarding, so it seems to me as if, only the hoarding and speculative bubble gives this extra boost to gold.

So roughly, the speculators in both commodities have drove the price really up, and they don't really make any sense.

@ RealBitcoin, wrong again -




What people spend on gold teeth is worth more than the total market cap of bitcoin lol

Ah c`mon thats a tiny percentage, it's like saying that bitcoin faucets drive the bitcoin economy (when its obvious that the venture capitalists & startups do). 

They put a few miligrams of gold in each chip which is tiny tiny and insignificant.

Gold has only 1 major use, jewelry, which will stay for long term, but that factor is severely overhyped. Gold could be much much lower if CB weren't hoarding it, because jewelry users dont really care about gold price, they care about appearance.

They dont care if gold is 1$ or 1000$, just like if you put a string around your neck with some emblem on it, it maybe cost you 5$ for that amulet, but its only for appearance, not for investing purposes.

Apart from CB hoarding and a few gold bugs, not many other guys are interested in investing. So thats like <1% of the population (not a good trend guys!)

Gold has not much intrinsic value , only as jewelry.

Gold as an investment object, has "investment value", which is separate from it's intrinsic value, and its definitely overhyped.

We cannot have an analog currency in a digital age. We could use gold for jewelry and to show off your wealth, but it won't be a mainstream instrument ever.

Even in the middle ages ,most folks used silver coins or some mixed copper coins that offiicially were issued by the kingdom's mint.

It's hard to believe that gold will become mainstream usage, especially as we go more and more digital in our everyday life (smart TV, smart Phone, Internet of things, flying cars, mentally controlled artificial limbs for disabled people?)

Gold will be only an overhyped instrument for gold bugs, and for central banks storage (who obviously dont know anything about the economy, otherwise wouldn't ruin it)

Opportunists already know this. Gold is a sinking ship on the long term.

At last a well balanced and considered post 

Gold, Silver, Platinum etc, have intrinsic value not only for their applications, but also for their extraction cost - and this, in turn, can be considered as an energy cost. If you need 1000$ in energy (diesel) to extract an ounce of gold, then you can't sell it at 999$. PMs therefore are backed by something - it's not snake oil.

Technology improvement is both in favor and against BTC. For PMs are steady in time, while technologies come and go, tomorrow something better might be in place of the BTC - so in this sense, an inherent uncertainty exists. Not to mention advancements in fields like quantum computing and how they might have an effect in crypto transactions and whether cryptocurrencies can cope by implementing quantum-resistant algorithms that can also scale.

Every single form of money has uncertainties.

Fiat money is too dependent on government and fiscal policies, even international events or global catastrophes. The debt-backed scheme also can't work without inflating the money supply forever, and the effects of compound interest, in the long run, mean that money loses its worth. So, in all its uncertainties, fiat has the certainty of an inflating money supply.

PMs have uncertainties, as I see it, in the sense of sudden mining technology advances, new massive deposit exploration and exploitation, and government intereference (banning of gold trade, confiscations, taxing etc). And in the short term you always have to face the price suppression scheme that is there to ensure people don't lose their faith in fiat in favor of PMs.

Bitcoin has uncertainties in the form of better technologies in the future, scaling and bloating attacks by determined attackers*, government hacking the money supply due to hardware devices spying on every single one of us, quantum computers that can render its cryptographic defense weaker, governmental and legislative blocks etc, government having the capability with own hardware or hacking in pools to perform 51% attacks, etc.

For me, the moto is anything but fiat. Fiat is only a tool to buy PMs and crypto when the price of PMs and crypto is suppressed.


* The price to bloat the blockchain to unusable levels is in the range of millions of dollars - which in turn makes it an easy target for "old money" systems - if they ever desired to attack BTC. Same with transaction costs. The "old money" elite has been paying billions of fiat to keep the price of PMs suppressed, and this is also something that BTC might also face in the future.

It depends gold is a old form of money. And snake oil sales man wil say its lasted 6000 years as a real form of money. But things change. Technolgy improves and its not going to come back. If it gets to the point we are all starving and the sh@# hits the fan then the gov will take it all away from you anyways. The best way to use your wealth is to buy farm land and start farming. Thats the safest way to do it the land will go up in value and you will have food and water if something bad happens. It takes US dollars to buy gold and bitcoin. So US dollars will always come first. Bitcoin is not like gold. Gold is its own commodity. Bitcoin is not its one brand of many crypto currencies out their. So say cypto currency takes off and has a great future bitcoin could still fall cause its 1 brand that another cypto coin can  destroy its value. So its like your playing the stock market of crypto currencies by just getting bitcoin. Right now its the most popular brand but maybe get other brands too if you do get into it. So dont' compare it to gold its 2 different things. Gold is not really a great investment. Its just a hedge if something bad happens to the world then you have gold that the gov will take away once something bad happens. Or if we have hyper inflation then it protects the value of your US dollar but you dont' make money off of it. If your looking to get rich look into businesses built around gold or crypto currency. But I think farmers will be the rich ones in 10 years driving around in ferraris . Thats like a sure thing you will hit big with farming and farmland. If you got lot of money buy land and put a farm on it.

And yet gold and other precious metals are all used more and more in our societies state of the art cutting edge technology such as CPU's, solar cells, CAT's, space craft and satellites.

If precious metals did not exist I wonder if you would even been able to make that post on computer over the internet.

You sound like another one of the sheeple that has swallowed the propaganda while the people at the top accumulate gold at an ever increasing rate just waiting to hit the big reset button.