Bitcoin or gold? - page 568. | Bitcointalksearch.org

AlexGR

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Quote from: futurebit640 on March 22, 2015, 06:04:27 PM

If you beleive in bitcoin you know it should go to $5-10k per coin when it becomes a world wide reserve currency like gold

Probably more.

Remember that gold is priced in ...troy ounces.

There are like 6 billion troy onces of above ground gold and they could be >10 billion by the time bitcoin reaches it's 21m coins.

So on one hand you have (right now)

14.000.000 btcs

and then you have

6.000.000.000 troy ounces of gold.

The scarcity ratio thus is somewhere around 1 btc per 428.5 ounces, or 13.3kg of gold.

Again: 1 BTC is as scarce as 13.3kg of above ground gold (costing $510.000 right now).

And while BTC is "capped" as far as its max number goes, gold is not. In the next century above ground quantities could double or triple or ...4x/5x/6x/10x (depending new mining innovations, AI involvement, new detection techniques, possible cheap energy breakthroughs etc).

futurebit640

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If you beleive in bitcoin you know it should go to $5-10k per coin when it becomes a world wide reserve currency like gold

deisik

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Quote from: GreenStox on March 22, 2015, 10:56:40 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2015, 10:09:46 AM

Yeah, but that was not you who had said that gold was easier to sell. Gold is indeed useless in everyday life (though a gold bullion is quite heavy and can be used as a plummet), but it is not what people love it for. It is a perfect store of value if your planning horizon is decades long (you could always pass it to children). Houses get old and fall apart, governments come and go, even countries cease to be (with all their fiat money, how nice), but gold remains the same and as shiny as always (and gold bullions are eye-catching as such)...

Unless the government breaks into your house and steals all the gold from you.. or if you store it in a vault they will loot it just like with private pensions, bank accounts and such (seen in Cyprus ,Greece and post 1929 USA)

In fact, they could even come and take your life (peace o'cake for 'em, yeah, I know), but does it make your dear life less precious to you by any means? And as you would fight for your life till the last ditch, people will most obviously fight for their gold till the last man. No more 1933...

GreenStox

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Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2015, 10:09:46 AM

Yeah, but that was not you who had said that gold was easier to sell. Gold is indeed useless in everyday life (though a gold bullion is quite heavy and can be used as a plummet), but it is not what people love it for. It is a perfect store of value if your planning horizon is decades long (you could always pass it to children). Houses get old and fall apart, governments come and go, even countries cease to be (with all their fiat money, how nice), but gold remains the same and as shiny as always (and gold bullions are eye-catching as such)...

Unless the government breaks into your house and steals all the gold from you.. or if you store it in a vault they will loot it just like with private pensions, bank accounts and such (seen in Cyprus ,Greece and post 1929 USA)

History will repeat itself and as much as i like shiny gold, i think it's not a viable storage of wealth in the crazy society we live in today.

deisik

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Quote from: Lauda on March 22, 2015, 10:00:39 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 20, 2015, 01:36:12 PM

Quote from: countryfree on March 20, 2015, 01:27:51 PM

BTC is easier to carry, you can travel around the world with it, but gold's easier to sell, and there are more buyers. I bet there are more gold ATM than there are BTC ATM in the world. All the Chineses and Indians love gold.

Why do you think physical gold is easier to sell? Have you ever sold gold bullion in real life? You can sell bitcoins at any of the multiple exchanges out there within just a few minutes (actually, transaction confirmations would take longer than the selling process itself)...

I don't think it's easier to sell. Who would buy a bullion of gold. Firstly they need quite some money, and besides that's pretty much useless. The people that love gold, actually love the jewelry and whatnot made out of gold. Obviously Bitcoin is easier, you can carry it on a very small paper that holds your private key.

Yeah, but that was not you who had said that gold was easier to sell. Gold is indeed useless in everyday life (though a gold bullion is quite heavy and can be used as a plummet), but it is not what people love it for. It is a perfect store of value if your planning horizon is decades long (you could always pass it to children). Houses get old and fall apart, governments come and go, even countries cease to be (with all their fiat money, how nice), but gold remains the same and as shiny as always (and gold bullions are eye-catching as such)...

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: bitcool on March 20, 2015, 02:02:00 PM

Bitcoin is pure money, it does have some advantages over gold.

However Gold has been tested for thousands of years, Bitcoin still needs to prove itself both technology and sociology wise.

I think that technology wise it has proven itself. Now it's up to the people and society overall. Gold isn't that much worth to me.

Quote from: deisik on March 20, 2015, 01:36:12 PM

Quote from: countryfree on March 20, 2015, 01:27:51 PM

BTC is easier to carry, you can travel around the world with it, but gold's easier to sell, and there are more buyers. I bet there are more gold ATM than there are BTC ATM in the world. All the Chineses and Indians love gold.

Why do you think physical gold is easier to sell? Have you ever sold gold bullion in real life? You can sell bitcoins at any of the multiple exchanges out there within just a few minutes (actually, transaction confirmations would take longer than the selling process itself)...

I don't think it's easier to sell. Who would buy a bullion of gold. Firstly they need quite some money, and besides that's pretty much useless. The people that love gold, actually love the jewelry and whatnot made out of gold. Obviously Bitcoin is easier, you can carry it on a very small paper that holds your private key.

manwithat

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Bitcoin can grow very much, and gold not.

But bitcoins can't be used in jewellery or other things.

hugs1BTC

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Quote from: monsterx on March 18, 2015, 03:39:06 AM

I wouldn't choose any of these. Gold goes down and I predict that it will go even lower. Bitcoins are not stable and who knows what will be later. If we are talking in depositing in some kind of materials for some years I would prefer diamonds. I don't say that their value won't fall, but I'm sure that they won't fall as fast as gold and bitcoins.

You need to look at the big picture. I would say 50% gold and 50% bitcoins. In 10 years, that 50% in bitcoins will worth A LOT OF MONEY, because of mining diff and distribution/adoption.

bitcool

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Live and enjoy experiments

Bitcoin is pure money, it does have some advantages over gold.

However Gold has been tested for thousands of years, Bitcoin still needs to prove itself both technology and sociology wise.

deisik

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Quote from: countryfree on March 20, 2015, 01:27:51 PM

BTC is easier to carry, you can travel around the world with it, but gold's easier to sell, and there are more buyers. I bet there are more gold ATM than there are BTC ATM in the world. All the Chineses and Indians love gold.

Why do you think physical gold is easier to sell? Have you ever sold gold bullion in real life? You can sell bitcoins at any of the multiple exchanges out there within just a few minutes (actually, transaction confirmations would take longer than the selling process itself)...

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

BTC is easier to carry, you can travel around the world with it, but gold's easier to sell, and there are more buyers. I bet there are more gold ATM than there are BTC ATM in the world. All the Chineses and Indians love gold.

deisik

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Quote from: okthen on March 20, 2015, 12:53:29 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 20, 2015, 04:06:24 AM

Quote from: okthen on March 19, 2015, 05:06:00 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 19, 2015, 04:47:54 PM

Quote from: cjrosero on March 19, 2015, 04:23:20 PM

If almost of you guys voting for gold why are you still using bitcoin? Huh

For me ill use bitcoin because im a newbie i think ahahaha and im still learning what its full potentials.

The answer to this question should be pretty obvious and straightforward. Gold is for long-term investment while bitcoin is for short-term speculation, at least for me. Other people, indeed, may have their own reasons why they are voting for gold and continue using bitcoin (if they really are, in the first place)...

I would actually say the opposite, I see btc as a long term inversion.
However, I imagine most vote for gold simply because it's still a safer investment vehicle.

It doesn't make much financial sense to make long-term investments in an asset which is prone to high volatility, since you may end up with much less money than you had before making an investment. On the other hand, it is also not very sensible to make short-term investments (read speculate) in an asset which price is stable. Indeed you are free to choose what asset to invest your money in...

Well, I see bitcoin as a long term investment (say 10 years) because I believe the technology will eventually become dominant, and the few satoshis I own now will be worth a lot. An amount to make a difference in my lifestyle.

Why not then sell some fraction of your bitcoin portfolio when the price goes up, and buy it back when the price goes down (given the present volatility of bitcoin)? That would be cumbersome with gold bullion, while with bitcoin it is a matter of a few minutes, though it requires a good deal of financial discipline (so as not to sell all the funds at a somewhat higher price)...

okthen

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Quote from: deisik on March 20, 2015, 04:06:24 AM

Quote from: okthen on March 19, 2015, 05:06:00 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 19, 2015, 04:47:54 PM

Quote from: cjrosero on March 19, 2015, 04:23:20 PM

If almost of you guys voting for gold why are you still using bitcoin? Huh

For me ill use bitcoin because im a newbie i think ahahaha and im still learning what its full potentials.

The answer to this question should be pretty obvious and straightforward. Gold is for long-term investment while bitcoin is for short-term speculation, at least for me. Other people, indeed, may have their own reasons why they are voting for gold and continue using bitcoin (if they really are, in the first place)...

I would actually say the opposite, I see btc as a long term inversion.
However, I imagine most vote for gold simply because it's still a safer investment vehicle.

It doesn't make much financial sense to make long-term investments in an asset which is prone to high volatility, since you may end up with much less money than you had before making an investment. On the other hand, it is also not very sensible to make short-term investments (read speculate) in an asset which price is stable. Indeed you are free to choose what asset to invest your money in...

Well, I see bitcoin as a long term investment (say 10 years) because I believe the technology will eventually become dominant, and the few satoshis I own now will be worth a lot. An amount to make a difference in my lifestyle.
Whereas I'd see gold as a way to assure your possessions won't devaluate from day to night (as can happen sometimes with fiat). In the long run, you can win a bit or lose a bit with gold, but in the short run it's one of the steadiest options around.

ChrisPop

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Not your Keys, Not your Bitcoins

Sincerely,I would invest in both assets,probably 60% in GOLD and 40% in Bitcoin as it(btc) is very volatile and I don`t think it is a very safe investment for long term.

dulldog

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Quote from: maku on March 18, 2015, 05:28:01 PM

Quote from: dulldog on March 18, 2015, 11:24:16 AM

Quote from: tkbx on March 09, 2014, 01:21:54 PM

If you had to convert all your wealth to either Bitcoin or gold and keep it there for 10 years, which would you choose? Keep in mind the fact that Bitcoin has only been around for 5 years, and could be fundamentally different in any number of ways in 10 years.

Come on they are totaly different assets. You can hardly compare them.

Exactly this is the reason we should keep both assets. Ideally it would be the best solution to invest in bitcoin and in buy some gold as well. Of course it is the safest and stable way. Bitcoin is here to stay I think and investing in it is good, but its price volatility can be an issue, while gold price fluctuation is bearable.

I guess you're absolutely right. It's just that bitcoin is very unpredictable because it's too, erm, young

But I suppose too that it's gonna grow some added value after a while.

And about gold, well I think we could define it as a good asset (investment) because it's limited so who gives a damn about its exchange cost.

GreenStox

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Quote from: DannyHamilton on March 09, 2014, 06:14:49 PM

Bitcoin, absolutely.

Gold is relatively stable and has had centuries (millennia?) to establish its relative value in the world.

Bitcoin is a disruptive technological protocol in its infancy. It is still in the process of price discovery and as additional layers of interface are added on top of the protocol, the difference will be equivalent to the difference between the internet today and the internet in the 1980's. It is impossible to predict what bitcoin will be like in 10 years, but I expect it will be exponentially more useful (and as such, exponentially more valuable) by then.

100% agree, the potential ROI on bitcoin is much higher than gold can ever be.

GOLD MARKET CAP: $6,824,099,383,549
BITCOIN MARKET CAP $3,635,290,981

Gold market is 1,877x bigger than bitcoin, if a few billionaires decide to put 10 billion into the gold market when SHTF it will only increase by 0.14%

If they do it in bitcoin however thats 275% ROI !!!

SO BY FAR BITCOIN HAS MORE POTENTIAL!

Also let's not forget the fact that gold is heavy and hard to conceal, and mr. government can visit you and steal it all, while they can't touch bitcoin!!

deisik

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Quote from: okthen on March 19, 2015, 05:06:00 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 19, 2015, 04:47:54 PM

Quote from: cjrosero on March 19, 2015, 04:23:20 PM

If almost of you guys voting for gold why are you still using bitcoin? Huh

For me ill use bitcoin because im a newbie i think ahahaha and im still learning what its full potentials.

The answer to this question should be pretty obvious and straightforward. Gold is for long-term investment while bitcoin is for short-term speculation, at least for me. Other people, indeed, may have their own reasons why they are voting for gold and continue using bitcoin (if they really are, in the first place)...

I would actually say the opposite, I see btc as a long term inversion.
However, I imagine most vote for gold simply because it's still a safer investment vehicle.

It doesn't make much financial sense to make long-term investments in an asset which is prone to high volatility, since you may end up with much less money than you had before making an investment. On the other hand, it is also not very sensible to make short-term investments (read speculate) in an asset which price is stable. Indeed you are free to choose what asset to invest your money in...

okthen

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Quote from: cjrosero on March 19, 2015, 05:17:52 PM

Quote from: okthen on March 19, 2015, 05:06:00 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 19, 2015, 04:47:54 PM

Quote from: cjrosero on March 19, 2015, 04:23:20 PM

If almost of you guys voting for gold why are you still using bitcoin? Huh

For me ill use bitcoin because im a newbie i think ahahaha and im still learning what its full potentials.

The answer to this question should be pretty obvious and straightforward. Gold is for long-term investment while bitcoin is for short-term speculation, at least for me. Other people, indeed, may have their own reasons why they are voting for gold and continue using bitcoin (if they really are, in the first place)...

I would actually say the opposite, I see btc as a long term inversion.
However, I imagine most vote for gold simply because it's still a safer investment vehicle.

do you still consider a long term investment when the bitcoin price hit at $1?

If the price would go that low I obviously would know bitcoin has failed. And I would definitely wouldn't own any when it happened (would have sold at around my entry point).

Snipe85

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Infleum

Quote from: deisik on March 19, 2015, 01:07:29 AM

Quote from: Snipe85 on March 18, 2015, 06:01:49 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 16, 2015, 12:42:10 PM

"A number of people" you make reference to here (which hold bags full of bars and coins) do not keep their gold at home. There are specialized high-security bank vaults for keeping gold in bullion banks. The gold in these vaults is also typically insured at that...

But it's against the whole idea of Bitcoin i.e. keeping your wealth under control. If you store it in a bank you could as well invest in fiat, there's no difference Wink

It is a moot point (in respect to gold), since when you keep it at home, it can be stolen by robbers, but when you keep it in a bank vault it can be expropriated by state or even stolen by the bank itself. This is true. Nevertheless, these misfortunes are set off by the bitcoin volatility and its potential to go down in value to nothing. That would essentially be the same as the gold you possess being stolen...

That's right, but theft is usually sudden and leaves you no time to react. I really doubt it's possible for Bitcoin to go down 90% in a short period of time (like 24h). In extreme case it would be losing 20% a day without a rebound, so you'd have enough time to save at least half of it. Volatility can be dangerous, but it can't be put on the same level as theft or seizure.

cjrosero

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To God Be The Glory!

Quote from: okthen on March 19, 2015, 05:06:00 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 19, 2015, 04:47:54 PM

Quote from: cjrosero on March 19, 2015, 04:23:20 PM

If almost of you guys voting for gold why are you still using bitcoin? Huh

For me ill use bitcoin because im a newbie i think ahahaha and im still learning what its full potentials.

The answer to this question should be pretty obvious and straightforward. Gold is for long-term investment while bitcoin is for short-term speculation, at least for me. Other people, indeed, may have their own reasons why they are voting for gold and continue using bitcoin (if they really are, in the first place)...

I would actually say the opposite, I see btc as a long term inversion.
However, I imagine most vote for gold simply because it's still a safer investment vehicle.

do you still consider a long term investment when the bitcoin price hit at $1?

Topic: Bitcoin or gold? - page 568. (Read 984547 times)