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Topic: Bitcoin Shrinking - The Long View - page 5. (Read 19400 times)

member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
July 16, 2011, 09:42:55 PM
Yeah, it's interesting how the retarded bitcoining masses really don't even realize that so much of their bitcoin "economy" exists wholly within private databases...

It's just a fucking joke all around.

I admire your persistence towards something you dislike so strongly.

I admire your inability to post a suitable rebuttal to the fact I expressed.
hero member
Activity: 699
Merit: 500
Your Minion
July 16, 2011, 09:40:33 PM
Yeah, it's interesting how the retarded bitcoining masses really don't even realize that so much of their bitcoin "economy" exists wholly within private databases...

It's just a fucking joke all around.

I admire your persistence towards something you dislike so strongly.
legendary
Activity: 1099
Merit: 1000
July 16, 2011, 09:40:10 PM
Henry Morton, the first president of the Stevens Institute of Technology, feared that Edison's lightbulb was "a fraud upon the public" and Marshall Ferdinand Fox called aeroplanes "interesting toys" with "no military value".

Maybe you have the balls to post your real name here, and be the Morton and Fox for the posterity.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
July 16, 2011, 09:33:47 PM

It is opinion.  The only thing we know for sure is that their are offers and bids in the high thirteens right now. Everything else is opinion.  Value is what a willing buyer and seller agree on. 

If only we knew for sure that those were the real bids/offers, and not the market makers themselves trying to maintain a certain profit level by simply massaging the numbers inside their database. Do you really have trust in the unregulated market makers?

If I want to buy right now, I know what I have to pay. If I want to sell right now, I know what I have to charge.  If the volumes are high, the price will move to the next best offer/bid. You are right that the market depth chart is not completely reliable, but for small amounts, it doesn't hardly matter at all.

Buyers may think its overvalued and sellers think it's undervalued. They meet in the middle just the way they are supposed to if they want to transact now. otherwise they bide their time and take their chances. Both sides.  

Yes, it's up to the parties at each end of the exchange transaction to either accept or reject the market maker's price. However, this approach produces unrealistic expectations about the future of bitcoin. In addition, it offers nothing of value to the bitcoin network itself, as all trading activity occurs outside the bitcoin block chain, which means that there are no transaction fees to compensate miners for maintaining and protecting (from potential attacks by rogue nodes) the bitcoin network.

Yeah, it's interesting how the retarded bitcoining masses really don't even realize that so much of their bitcoin "economy" exists wholly within private databases...

It's just a fucking joke all around.

full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
July 16, 2011, 09:29:11 PM

It is opinion.  The only thing we know for sure is that their are offers and bids in the high thirteens right now. Everything else is opinion.  Value is what a willing buyer and seller agree on. 

If only we knew for sure that those were the real bids/offers, and not the market makers themselves trying to maintain a certain profit level by simply massaging the numbers inside their database. Do you really have trust in the unregulated market makers?

If I want to buy right now, I know what I have to pay. If I want to sell right now, I know what I have to charge.  If the volumes are high, the price will move to the next best offer/bid. You are right that the market depth chart is not completely reliable, but for small amounts, it doesn't hardly matter at all.

Buyers may think its overvalued and sellers think it's undervalued. They meet in the middle just the way they are supposed to if they want to transact now. otherwise they bide their time and take their chances. Both sides.  

Yes, it's up to the parties at each end of the exchange transaction to either accept or reject the market maker's price. However, this approach produces unrealistic expectations about the future of bitcoin. In addition, it offers nothing of value to the bitcoin network itself, as all trading activity occurs outside the bitcoin block chain, which means that there are no transaction fees to compensate miners for maintaining and protecting (from potential attacks by rogue nodes) the bitcoin network.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
July 16, 2011, 09:23:06 PM
Fiat currencies are not evil, but their money supply is out of people's control. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is a currency of the people by the people. Wouldn't you agree that voting with money is much more effective and efficient than voting with ballots or feet? (Money is fuel, so to speak.) If you control the money supply, you get to say what goes and what doesn't for whatever type of economy you are envisioning or trying to build. Having a choice is great, no?

Now, we just need to find a way to keep the market makers out of bitcoin economy... The stench is overbearing!

I can empathize with the uneasiness of money supplies being controlled by central banks (even though, personally, I think the system works reasonably well most of the time).  I've posted some ideas on how to keep some of the "people-control" aspect of the money supply in Bitcoin without having to buy into the deflationary mindset here, and I'd love it if you or anyone else on this thread could spare a few minutes to comment:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=29252.0
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
July 16, 2011, 09:21:31 PM

Well I'm sorry that I have no interest in throughly explaining myself to someone who doesn't understand what I've already written. I hope that someone else wouldn't mind "translating" or elaborating for you.

Let's me see here...

It seems that in order to make OP's assertion valid, one must simply rephrase "The long term trend for bitcoin value is contraction, not expansion." as "The long term trend for fiat/bitcoin exchange rates is contraction, not expansion."

See, we no longer talking about bitcoin's value--only about the ability of market makers (like MtGox crew, etc) to maintain fiat/bitcoin current exchange rates for more than a month or two. OP is right, bitcoin's true value is WAY BELOW current exchange rates due to bitcoin not having any economy to call Home. So, stop worrying about the exchange rates that market makers are feeding you every day. Instead, start offering your bitcoins to merchants... Let's see if they do value BTC more than their local fiat currencies.

Absolutely. You've summarized quite accurately.

Now, my OPINION is that BTC will never find a use with the wider public because it's "advantages" are really quite meaningless to your average consumer, and CERTAINLY don't outweigh the glut of inconveniences inherent to it.

But what's not opinion is that the exchange rate is massively overvalued and is now headed down to a more accurate valuation as the hype continues to subside.

And by "not opinion", I'm assuming you meant that "it's a fact"?... If so, then I concur: all of the shelves with fiat currencies have been emptied out; only the shelves with overripened "bananas" still remain. If only bitcoin miners could survive on bananas, we'd be fine!

As far as BTC finding its use with the wider public, you and I are of a different opinion. You see, there's still hope that miners would eventually realize that without spending, there can never be a deflation in the deflationary "by design" economy. In order to get from 21,000,000BTCs (monetary base) to 2,100,000,000,000,000BTCs (expected total money supply), all of 21,000,000BTCs must be constantly exchanging hands (and the more hands the better). Miners hoarding bitcoins is equivalent to the central banks (in inflationary economies) raising the minimum reserve requirements of their member banks (or bitcoin users, in our case), thus reducing the available money supply.

As for bitcoin advantages, perhaps you should try looking at the bitcoin network as the best-in-class accounting system/ledger of who owes what to whom. For example, what stops one neighbor (a computer buff) from agreeing with another neighbor (a landscaping business owner) to exchange their skills/services for bitcoins, rather than for local fiat currency? Bitcoins are perfect for that type of contracts.

But the point is that fiat currencies aren't evil, serve their purpose just fine and have for many hundreds of years and likely will for a hundred years to come. Do some currencies hyper-inflate? Sure do, and then they correct and recover. And it's not the fact that a currency can be inflated that makes fiat "evil," it's that there are corrupt governments, and Bitcoin isn't going to do a single fucking thing to remedy the fact that people allow corrupt governments to exist.

In fact, the motherfucking BITCOIN economy/exchange is more corrupt than the US economy and the FED right now!

Fiat currencies are not evil, but their money supply is out of people's control. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is a currency of the people by the people. Wouldn't you agree that voting with money is much more effective and efficient than voting with ballots or feet? (Money is fuel, so to speak.) If you control the money supply, you get to say what goes and what doesn't for whatever type of economy you are envisioning or trying to build. Having a choice is great, no?

Now, we just need to find a way to keep the market makers out of bitcoin economy... The stench is overbearing!

Negative. Every currency belonging to a democratically elected government is directly beholden to the populace. The point is that democratic populations are impotent and ineffectual at managing their own government and essentially deserve everything that they get coming to them.

Also, I'd much rather deal with the Dragon's Den on Wall Street and the Fat Cats in the Fed than the shithole excuses for monetary exchanges that belong to bitcoin and the Bitcoin Elite that hold the lions share of the entire currency among a tiny number of hands...

Don't delude yourself. Bitcoin is not a "currency" by the people for the people. It's a Multi-level Marketing scheme run by "Oligarchs" and market shysters.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
July 16, 2011, 09:13:53 PM

Well I'm sorry that I have no interest in throughly explaining myself to someone who doesn't understand what I've already written. I hope that someone else wouldn't mind "translating" or elaborating for you.

Let's me see here...

It seems that in order to make OP's assertion valid, one must simply rephrase "The long term trend for bitcoin value is contraction, not expansion." as "The long term trend for fiat/bitcoin exchange rates is contraction, not expansion."

See, we no longer talking about bitcoin's value--only about the ability of market makers (like MtGox crew, etc) to maintain fiat/bitcoin current exchange rates for more than a month or two. OP is right, bitcoin's true value is WAY BELOW current exchange rates due to bitcoin not having any economy to call Home. So, stop worrying about the exchange rates that market makers are feeding you every day. Instead, start offering your bitcoins to merchants... Let's see if they do value BTC more than their local fiat currencies.

Absolutely. You've summarized quite accurately.

Now, my OPINION is that BTC will never find a use with the wider public because it's "advantages" are really quite meaningless to your average consumer, and CERTAINLY don't outweigh the glut of inconveniences inherent to it.

But what's not opinion is that the exchange rate is massively overvalued and is now headed down to a more accurate valuation as the hype continues to subside.

And by "not opinion", I'm assuming you meant that "it's a fact"?... If so, then I concur: all of the shelves with fiat currencies have been emptied out; only the shelves with overripened "bananas" still remain. If only bitcoin miners could survive on bananas, we'd be fine!

As far as BTC finding its use with the wider public, you and I are of a different opinion. You see, there's still hope that miners would eventually realize that without spending, there can never be a deflation in the deflationary "by design" economy. In order to get from 21,000,000BTCs (monetary base) to 2,100,000,000,000,000BTCs (expected total money supply), all of 21,000,000BTCs must be constantly exchanging hands (and the more hands the better). Miners hoarding bitcoins is equivalent to the central banks (in inflationary economies) raising the minimum reserve requirements of their member banks (or bitcoin users, in our case), thus reducing the available money supply.

As for bitcoin advantages, perhaps you should try looking at the bitcoin network as the best-in-class accounting system/ledger of who owes what to whom. For example, what stops one neighbor (a computer buff) from agreeing with another neighbor (a landscaping business owner) to exchange their skills/services for bitcoins, rather than for local fiat currency? Bitcoins are perfect for that type of contracts.

But the point is that fiat currencies aren't evil, serve their purpose just fine and have for many hundreds of years and likely will for a hundred years to come. Do some currencies hyper-inflate? Sure do, and then they correct and recover. And it's not the fact that a currency can be inflated that makes fiat "evil," it's that there are corrupt governments, and Bitcoin isn't going to do a single fucking thing to remedy the fact that people allow corrupt governments to exist.

In fact, the motherfucking BITCOIN economy/exchange is more corrupt than the US economy and the FED right now!

Fiat currencies are not evil, but their money supply is out of people's control. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is a currency of the people by the people. Wouldn't you agree that voting with money is much more effective and efficient than voting with ballots or feet? (Money is fuel, so to speak.) If you control the money supply, you get to say what goes and what doesn't for whatever type of economy you are envisioning or trying to build. Having a choice is great, no?

Now, we just need to find a way to keep the market makers out of bitcoin economy... The stench is overbearing!
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
July 16, 2011, 09:07:58 PM
Do some currencies hyper-inflate? Sure do, and then they correct and recover.

Many don't recover. they are dead forever. Confederate dollars, for example.
]

Or the Reichsmark, etc.

But did the underlying economy, people, families, businesses just disappear with them?  No.  They just started using a different currency.

That's why I don't care at all what happens to the Dollar, the Euro, whatever. Doesn't fucking matter. Life goes on. Cycles happen. Humanity learns, grows.

And we don't need an alternative currency run by a bunch of amateurs to do it.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
July 16, 2011, 09:03:46 PM
Do some currencies hyper-inflate? Sure do, and then they correct and recover.

Many don't recover. they are dead forever. Confederate dollars, for example.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
July 16, 2011, 09:02:36 PM

It is opinion.  The only thing we know for sure is that their are offers and bids in the high thirteens right now. Everything else is opinion.  Value is what a willing buyer and seller agree on. 

If only we knew for sure that those were the real bids/offers, and not the market makers themselves trying to maintain a certain profit level by simply massaging the numbers inside their database. Do you really have trust in the unregulated market makers?

I think this is probably a bit TOO conspiratorial, even for how full of shit the exchanges are.  What is for certain is that the people who run the exchanges, as well as the bitcoin aristocra....I mean "early adopters," are in total and complete control of the markets as long as people continue to buy into bitcoin.

Fortunately regular people are beginning to move past the hype and not throwing their paychecks into such a bullshit scheme anymore.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
July 16, 2011, 09:01:24 PM

It is opinion.  The only thing we know for sure is that their are offers and bids in the high thirteens right now. Everything else is opinion.  Value is what a willing buyer and seller agree on. 

If only we knew for sure that those were the real bids/offers, and not the market makers themselves trying to maintain a certain profit level by simply massaging the numbers inside their database. Do you really have trust in the unregulated market makers?

If I want to buy right now, I know what I have to pay. If I want to sell right now, I know what I have to charge.  If the volumes are high, the price will move to the next best offer/bid. You are right that the market depth chart is not completely reliable, but for small amounts, it doesn't hardly matter at all.

Buyers may think its overvalued and sellers think it's undervalued. They meet in the middle just the way they are supposed to if they want to transact now. otherwise they bide their time and take their chances. Both sides.  
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
July 16, 2011, 08:56:08 PM

Well I'm sorry that I have no interest in throughly explaining myself to someone who doesn't understand what I've already written. I hope that someone else wouldn't mind "translating" or elaborating for you.

Let's me see here...

It seems that in order to make OP's assertion valid, one must simply rephrase "The long term trend for bitcoin value is contraction, not expansion." as "The long term trend for fiat/bitcoin exchange rates is contraction, not expansion."

See, we no longer talking about bitcoin's value--only about the ability of market makers (like MtGox crew, etc) to maintain fiat/bitcoin current exchange rates for more than a month or two. OP is right, bitcoin's true value is WAY BELOW current exchange rates due to bitcoin not having any economy to call Home. So, stop worrying about the exchange rates that market makers are feeding you every day. Instead, start offering your bitcoins to merchants... Let's see if they do value BTC more than their local fiat currencies.

Absolutely. You've summarized quite accurately.

Now, my OPINION is that BTC will never find a use with the wider public because it's "advantages" are really quite meaningless to your average consumer, and CERTAINLY don't outweigh the glut of inconveniences inherent to it.

But what's not opinion is that the exchange rate is massively overvalued and is now headed down to a more accurate valuation as the hype continues to subside.

And by "not opinion", I'm assuming you meant that "it's a fact"?... If so, then I concur: all of the shelves with fiat currencies have been emptied out; only the shelves with overripened "bananas" still remain. If only bitcoin miners could survive on bananas, we'd be fine!

As far as BTC finding its use with the wider public, you and I are of a different opinion. You see, there's still hope that miners would eventually realize that without spending, there can never be a deflation in the deflationary "by design" economy. In order to get from 21,000,000BTCs (monetary base) to 2,100,000,000,000,000BTCs (expected total money supply), all of 21,000,000BTCs must be constantly exchanging hands (and the more hands the better). Miners hoarding bitcoins is equivalent to the central banks (in inflationary economies) raising the minimum reserve requirements of their member banks (or bitcoin users, in our case), thus reducing the available money supply.

As for bitcoin advantages, perhaps you should try looking at the bitcoin network as the best-in-class accounting system/ledger of who owes what to whom. For example, what stops one neighbor (a computer buff) from agreeing with another neighbor (a landscaping business owner) to exchange their skills/services for bitcoins, rather than for local fiat currency? Bitcoins are perfect for that type of contracts.

But the point is that fiat currencies aren't evil, serve their purpose just fine and have for many hundreds of years and likely will for a hundred years to come. Do some currencies hyper-inflate? Sure do, and then they correct and recover. And it's not the fact that a currency can be inflated that makes fiat "evil," it's that there are corrupt governments, and Bitcoin isn't going to do a single fucking thing to remedy the fact that people allow corrupt governments to exist.

In fact, the motherfucking BITCOIN economy/exchange is more corrupt than the US economy and the FED right now!
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
July 16, 2011, 08:52:23 PM

It is opinion.  The only thing we know for sure is that their are offers and bids in the high thirteens right now. Everything else is opinion.  Value is what a willing buyer and seller agree on. 

If only we knew for sure that those were the real bids/offers, and not the market makers themselves trying to maintain a certain profit level by simply massaging the numbers inside their database. Do you really have trust in the unregulated market makers?
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
July 16, 2011, 08:45:18 PM

Well I'm sorry that I have no interest in throughly explaining myself to someone who doesn't understand what I've already written. I hope that someone else wouldn't mind "translating" or elaborating for you.

Let's me see here...

It seems that in order to make OP's assertion valid, one must simply rephrase "The long term trend for bitcoin value is contraction, not expansion." as "The long term trend for fiat/bitcoin exchange rates is contraction, not expansion."

See, we no longer talking about bitcoin's value--only about the ability of market makers (like MtGox crew, etc) to maintain fiat/bitcoin current exchange rates for more than a month or two. OP is right, bitcoin's true value is WAY BELOW current exchange rates due to bitcoin not having any economy to call Home. So, stop worrying about the exchange rates that market makers are feeding you every day. Instead, start offering your bitcoins to merchants... Let's see if they do value BTC more than their local fiat currencies.

Absolutely. You've summarized quite accurately.

Now, my OPINION is that BTC will never find a use with the wider public because it's "advantages" are really quite meaningless to your average consumer, and CERTAINLY don't outweigh the glut of inconveniences inherent to it.

But what's not opinion is that the exchange rate is massively overvalued and is now headed down to a more accurate valuation as the hype continues to subside.

And by "not opinion", I'm assuming you meant that "it's a fact"?... If so, then I concur: all of the shelves with fiat currencies have been emptied out; only the shelves with overripened "bananas" still remain. If only bitcoin miners could survive on bananas, we'd be fine!

As far as BTC finding its use with the wider public, you and I are of a different opinion. You see, there's still hope that miners would eventually realize that without spending, there can never be a deflation in the deflationary "by design" economy. In order to get from 21,000,000BTCs (monetary base) to 2,100,000,000,000,000BTCs (expected total money supply), all of 21,000,000BTCs must be constantly exchanging hands (and the more hands the better). Miners hoarding bitcoins is equivalent to the central banks (in inflationary economies) raising the minimum reserve requirements of their member banks (or bitcoin users, in our case), thus reducing the available money supply.

As for bitcoin advantages, perhaps you should try looking at the bitcoin network as the best-in-class accounting system/ledger of who owes what to whom. For example, what stops one neighbor (a computer buff) from agreeing with another neighbor (a landscaping business owner) to exchange their skills/services for bitcoins, rather than for local fiat currency? Bitcoins are perfect for that type of contracts.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
July 16, 2011, 08:39:27 PM
No, Synaptic, let's stay with the same post and examine that, for the sake of clarity.

A number of people have mentioned how great BTC are for international currency transport and exchange and they're correct, though this use doesn't require any valuation higher than relative parity with the strongest currencies; In fact it still works perfectly fine at 10:1 or even 100:1, the only reason for it to be higher is greedy miners hoarding to artificially restrict supply.

What are you saying here exactly? That for international currency transfer and exchange we don't need a BTC value of more than $1? That's a total of $6m?

Explain.

Look I'm getting really fucking tired of your inability to comprehend the very words you're reading...

This isn't about you.

Well I'm sorry that I have no interest in throughly explaining myself to someone who doesn't understand what I've already written. I hope that someone else wouldn't mind "translating" or elaborating for you.

Let's me see here...

It seems that in order to make OP's assertion valid, one must simply rephrase "The long term trend for bitcoin value is contraction, not expansion." as "The long term trend for fiat/bitcoin exchange rates is contraction, not expansion."

See, we no longer talking about bitcoin's value--only about the ability of market makers (like MtGox crew, etc) to maintain fiat/bitcoin current exchange rates for more than a month or two. OP is right, bitcoin's true value is WAY BELOW current exchange rates due to bitcoin not having any economy to call Home. So, stop worrying about the exchange rates that market makers are feeding you every day. Instead, start offering your bitcoins to merchants... Let's see if they do value BTC more than their local fiat currencies.

Absolutely. You've summarized quite accurately.

Now, my OPINION is that BTC will never find a use with the wider public because it's "advantages" are really quite meaningless to your average consumer, and CERTAINLY don't outweigh the glut of inconveniences inherent to it.

But what's not opinion is that the exchange rate is massively overvalued and is now headed down to a more accurate valuation as the hype continues to subside.

It is opinion.  The only thing we know for sure is that their are offers and bids in the high thirteens right now. Everything else is opinion.  Value is what a willing buyer and seller agree on. 

Please edit your post daily to reflect the dropping prices.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
July 16, 2011, 08:33:54 PM
No, Synaptic, let's stay with the same post and examine that, for the sake of clarity.

A number of people have mentioned how great BTC are for international currency transport and exchange and they're correct, though this use doesn't require any valuation higher than relative parity with the strongest currencies; In fact it still works perfectly fine at 10:1 or even 100:1, the only reason for it to be higher is greedy miners hoarding to artificially restrict supply.

What are you saying here exactly? That for international currency transfer and exchange we don't need a BTC value of more than $1? That's a total of $6m?

Explain.

Look I'm getting really fucking tired of your inability to comprehend the very words you're reading...

This isn't about you.

Well I'm sorry that I have no interest in throughly explaining myself to someone who doesn't understand what I've already written. I hope that someone else wouldn't mind "translating" or elaborating for you.

Let's me see here...

It seems that in order to make OP's assertion valid, one must simply rephrase "The long term trend for bitcoin value is contraction, not expansion." as "The long term trend for fiat/bitcoin exchange rates is contraction, not expansion."

See, we no longer talking about bitcoin's value--only about the ability of market makers (like MtGox crew, etc) to maintain fiat/bitcoin current exchange rates for more than a month or two. OP is right, bitcoin's true value is WAY BELOW current exchange rates due to bitcoin not having any economy to call Home. So, stop worrying about the exchange rates that market makers are feeding you every day. Instead, start offering your bitcoins to merchants... Let's see if they do value BTC more than their local fiat currencies.

Absolutely. You've summarized quite accurately.

Now, my OPINION is that BTC will never find a use with the wider public because it's "advantages" are really quite meaningless to your average consumer, and CERTAINLY don't outweigh the glut of inconveniences inherent to it.

But what's not opinion is that the exchange rate is massively overvalued and is now headed down to a more accurate valuation as the hype continues to subside.

It is opinion.  The only thing we know for sure is that their are offers and bids in the high thirteens right now. Everything else is opinion.  Value is what a willing buyer and seller agree on. 
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
July 16, 2011, 08:15:51 PM
And I don't blame the Fed for anything. Though I don't appreciate their monetary policy, I do realize they know much better than I or anyone else on this backwater forum how to run an economy the size of the United States.

LOL. They sure know how to run an economy. US debt is now almost 100% of GDP.

"The number of people in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, known as food stamps, hit a record 44.2 million in January. "

"More than 8.4 million people are collecting either state or federal jobless benefits."

"Ninety-one percent of respondents to a recent poll said they are somewhat or very concerned about the rising rate of inflation, according to a national CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll released Tuesday. And 86% said they are worried about jobs."

"Debt has grown $3.5 trillion on Obama's watch"

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/12/news/economy/government_safety_net/index.htm

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/18/news/economy/cnn_poll_inflation/index.htm?postversion=2008031813

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20035569-503544.html

None of what you listed has anything to do with the Fed, and everything to do with Congress, the Senate, and the overbearing multi-nationals. Get a grip.

EDIT: I should clarify I didn't mean to suggest that the Fed run the US economy, I should have said "Manage interest rates and inflation relative to the economic decisions of the US government."

SECOND EDIT: Contrary to the prevailing fool's wisdom, the Fed is entirely beholden to the US Government and if anyone bothered to vote in our elections for candidates with integrity you might see a different result. It matters not about all the BS about the Fed being a private bank and whatever the hell else. If you voted in honest candidates you'd get honest monetary policy. Deal with it and quit bitching about it. Bitcoin certainly isn't going to change a goddamn thing about it.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 251
FirstBits: 168Bc
July 16, 2011, 07:39:44 PM
The price of bitcoins doubled *almost* every month....ON AVERAGE...lol and here;s the best part, SINCE THE BEGINNING.

Oh man, what a wonderful glut of qualifiers you've got there imperi....

If the price strictly doubled every month since October 2010 (a month after data begins), the price would be above $31 today. Which is *almost* correct. If we experienced 80% gains monthly we'd have a price of $12 today. My data/calcs:

2010-10       .06      .06
2010-11       .12      .11
2010-12       .24      .19
2011-01       .48      .35
2011-02       .96      .63
2011-03      1.92     1.13
2011-04      3.84     2.04
2011-05      7.68     3.67
2011-06     15.36     6.61
2011-07     30.72    11.90
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
July 16, 2011, 07:35:11 PM
No, Synaptic, let's stay with the same post and examine that, for the sake of clarity.

A number of people have mentioned how great BTC are for international currency transport and exchange and they're correct, though this use doesn't require any valuation higher than relative parity with the strongest currencies; In fact it still works perfectly fine at 10:1 or even 100:1, the only reason for it to be higher is greedy miners hoarding to artificially restrict supply.

What are you saying here exactly? That for international currency transfer and exchange we don't need a BTC value of more than $1? That's a total of $6m?

Explain.



Look I'm getting really fucking tired of your inability to comprehend the very words you're reading...

This isn't about you.

Well I'm sorry that I have no interest in throughly explaining myself to someone who doesn't understand what I've already written. I hope that someone else wouldn't mind "translating" or elaborating for you.

Let's me see here...

It seems that in order to make OP's assertion valid, one must simply rephrase "The long term trend for bitcoin value is contraction, not expansion." as "The long term trend for fiat/bitcoin exchange rates is contraction, not expansion."

See, we no longer talking about bitcoin's value--only about the ability of market makers (like MtGox crew, etc) to maintain fiat/bitcoin current exchange rates for more than a month or two. OP is right, bitcoin's true value is WAY BELOW current exchange rates due to bitcoin not having any economy to call Home. So, stop worrying about the exchange rates that market makers are feeding you every day. Instead, start offering your bitcoins to merchants... Let's see if they do value BTC more than their local fiat currencies.

Absolutely. You've summarized quite accurately.

Now, my OPINION is that BTC will never find a use with the wider public because it's "advantages" are really quite meaningless to your average consumer, and CERTAINLY don't outweigh the glut of inconveniences inherent to it.

But what's not opinion is that the exchange rate is massively overvalued and is now headed down to a more accurate valuation as the hype continues to subside.
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