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Topic: Bitcoin transaction fees (in sats/kb). Sunday, Saturday are best to move BTC - page 3. (Read 2719 times)

legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 6080
Self-proclaimed Genius
Is this possible way for dealing with not urgent transactions?
Obviously. 1 sat/vbyte is the "cheapest fee" you can choose. Whether you want to consolidate your inputs, or sweep your funds into another wallet, or other kind of transactions that you believe are not urgent and you can wait for weeks, 1 sat/vbyte regardless of the mempool condition is a good choice.

Yes, for legacy addresses the smallest possible fee is 1 sat/vbyte, for segwit addresses it is appox. 0.7 sat/vByte, for bech32 addresses even less
You used vByte for SegWit, so the minimum should be 1sat/vByte, any lower will be non-standard.
It will only show as ±0.7sat/Byte if it's based from the raw bytes like what blockchain.com's explorer or wallet/clients that don't support SegWit are displaying.
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 4085
Farewell o_e_l_e_o
    Yes, for legacy addresses the smallest possible fee is 1 sat/vbyte, for segwit addresses it is appox. 0.7 sat/vbyte, for bech32 addresses even less
    bench32 addresses are Segwit addresses. I guess you misunderstood bench32 addresses.

    With Segwit address, your transaction fee will be calculated from total virtual size

    virtual size = total weight units/ 4

    Total weight unit = bytes (of witness data) * 1 + bytes (of non-witness data)*4

    • Witness data takes 1 weight unit for each.
    • Non-witness data takes 4 weight units for each

    The fee rate is in satoshis/ virtual byte. If you are able to reduce your transaction size, your transaction fee will be reduced. It is why Segwit address can help you.


    If you use fee estimations in wallets, you need to choose mempool rather than ETA. ETA usually gives you over-high fee rate because it uses the estimated blocks to have confirmation for your transactions.

    Mempool option is better because wallet will use mempool size to estimate fee rate for you. 1 Block has size ~ 1MB. Mempool size changes quickly and look at mempool size can help you to avoid over-use of high fee than needed.

    See Techniques to reduce transaction fees

    Quote
    Patient spending
    Very useful for non-urgent transactions. Not useful for urgent transactions

    Spenders who can patiently wait for their transactions to confirm can take advantage of variations in the feerate necessary to achive confirmation. For example, sometimes several Bitcoin blocks are produced in quick succession, raising the effective supply of block space by several multiples; other times, demand drops off, such as fees on Sunday being on average 20% lower than fees on Friday in Q4 2017. Looking at data from the widely-used fee estimator included in Bitcoin Core, we can see fee savings of 90% or more possible, with around 50% being easily obtainable by many patient spenders.
    You can compare their figures for difference between fees in Sunday and Friday and compares with mine. I gonna give you update on this soon.

    The chart and corresponding table shows that if you are patient enough to wait for up to 6 hours, you can get up to 55% saving in fee.[/list]
    sr. member
    Activity: 443
    Merit: 350
    Is this possible way for dealing with not urgent transactions?
    Obviously. 1 sat/vbyte is the "cheapest fee" you can choose. Whether you want to consolidate your inputs, or sweep your funds into another wallet, or other kind of transactions that you believe are not urgent and you can wait for weeks, 1 sat/vbyte regardless of the mempool condition is a good choice.

    Yes, for legacy addresses the smallest possible fee is 1 sat/vbyte, for segwit addresses it is appox. 0.7 sat/vbyte, for bech32 addresses even less
    legendary
    Activity: 2170
    Merit: 1789
    Is this possible way for dealing with not urgent transactions?
    Obviously. 1 sat/vbyte is the "cheapest fee" you can choose. Whether you want to consolidate your inputs, or sweep your funds into another wallet, or other kind of transactions that you believe are not urgent and you can wait for weeks, 1 sat/vbyte regardless of the mempool condition is a good choice.
    legendary
    Activity: 2310
    Merit: 4085
    Farewell o_e_l_e_o
    For not urgent transaction (like collecting several inputs into one) you can easily post your transaction with 1sat/byte and wait... usually within a week the transaction is confirmed. Is this possible way for dealing with not urgent transactions?
    Hours ago:
    If you are in emergency and need urgent transaction, you need to choose a fee rate with total size of waiting transactions are less than 1 MB. In my previous post (hours ago), you can make urgent transaction even at 1 satoshi/ (v)byte. It will be confirmed in next one block or if you are not lucky enough (because mempool suddenly rises a little), you will have to wait for 2 or 3 blocks later. To make sure you will get first confirmation next 1 block, you can choose 2 satoshi/ (v)byte.


    Now:
    Look at mempool, in order to get confirmations next 1 block, you should choose fee rate at 3 or 5 satoshi/ (v)byte. It is only to make sure you can be able to avoid sudden increases in mempool size. For me, I will set up my fee rate at 1 and wait for next few hours. I bet it will be confirmed.  Tongue

    Check it at https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,2h (for 2-hour window). You can choose narrow or wide window at top right corner of that site.

    sr. member
    Activity: 443
    Merit: 350
    -snip-
    Hurry up guys!

    For not urgent transaction (like collecting several inputs into one) you can easily post your transaction with 1sat/byte and wait... usually within a week the transaction is confirmed. Is this possible way for dealing with not urgent transactions?
    legendary
    Activity: 2310
    Merit: 4085
    Farewell o_e_l_e_o
    It's the weekend and today is Saturday!

    Mempool was cleared about 5 hours ago and now if you check on https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,24h, you can see that the total size of waiting transactions with 2 satoshis+ in fee rate is at 0.29 MB, even less than 1 MB. You can get fast confirmation in next one or two blocks with fees at 2 satoshis/ (v)byte.

    Tomorrow, Sunday, I expect to see the mempool will be clearer and you will have chances to move your bitcoin at 1 satoshi/ (v)byte. Hurry up guys!


    For transaction counts over different hourframes, today I run with data again and once again, statistics show there are some hour-frames have less transactions than the other hour-frames. It means even in the weekends, there are some hour-frames you usually have cheaper fees.
    • Period: 2020-01-01 00:03:05 2020-09-25 23:55:47 UTC time
    • Blocks: 610691 - 650003

    See details below
    Code:
         +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
         | rank_median    hour_frame   median      p25    p75      iqr   min    max |
         |--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
      1. |           1     1 - 6 UTC     1863      994   2507     1513     1   3712 |
      2. |           2    7 - 12 UTC   2231.5   1359.5   2602   1242.5     1   3908 |
      3. |           3    19 - 0 UTC     2281     1291   2740     1449     1   3809 |
      4. |           4   13 - 18 UTC   2389.5   1831.5   2753    921.5     1   3797 |
         +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    copper member
    Activity: 2114
    Merit: 1794
    Top Crypto Casino
    Mempool has cleared right now members(Very few unconfirmed transactions in it). Time to move your bitcoins at 1 sat/byte if you can  Wink


    https://mempool.space/




    https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,2h
    legendary
    Activity: 1624
    Merit: 2481
    ~snip~

    Of course. It always depends on the amount of transactions waiting to get confirmed.
    It is just that usually there are less transactions on sunday, and therefore the mempool gets empty which means the transaction fees to get a fast confirmation decreases.

    You don't have to wait for sunday to transact. You can always broadcast your transaction with a fee of 1 sat/vB. It might even get confirmed faster. And if it doesn't, it usually will on sunday.
    hero member
    Activity: 1834
    Merit: 566
    So, transaction fee is all about low traffic in bitcoin transfer or transactions. I never thought of this since I am really fan of altcoins but now I am starting to look forward on the best coin which is bitcoin. I downloaded already my bitcoin wallet through phone(mobile wallet).

    Even if you are altcoins enthusiast, you can easily understand that when crypto market experience huge traffic after halving or not theres always increase in transaction fee.


    ~
    I downloaded already my bitcoin wallet through phone(mobile wallet).
    What mobile wallet did you download? Keep in mind that not all of them will allow you customize the fees. The informations provided in the OP will be more useful if you are not going to use custodial wallets. They calculate the fees for you and categorize them into "slow, normal, fast" but they are usually set at a higher rate.

    Non-custodial mobile wallets like Electrum and Mycelium allows you to set a fee.
    Thats correct but people are advised not to keep huge fund in mobile and web wallet because they are vulnerable to attack.

    Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency invented in 2008 by an unknown person or group of people using the name Satoshi Nakamoto and started in 2009 when its implementation was released as open-source software. Watch this Grounded Download PC Game


    Your reply is off-topic. Please read the forum rules and regulations or else your maybe ban.
    legendary
    Activity: 2114
    Merit: 1150
    https://bitcoincleanup.com/
    ~
    I downloaded already my bitcoin wallet through phone(mobile wallet).
    What mobile wallet did you download? Keep in mind that not all of them will allow you customize the fees. The informations provided in the OP will be more useful if you are not going to use custodial wallets. They calculate the fees for you and categorize them into "slow, normal, fast" but they are usually set at a higher rate.

    Non-custodial mobile wallets like Electrum and Mycelium allows you to set a fee.
    full member
    Activity: 924
    Merit: 221
    Mempool began to be cleared about 8 hours ago and now if you check on https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,24h, you can see that the total size of all waiting transactions is at 0.75 MB, even less than 1 MB. You can get fast confirmation in next few (one or two) blocks with fees at 1 satoshis/ (v)byte.

    It is a chance to move your bitcoin at 1 satoshi/ (v)byte. The dump and very narrow price movements of bitcoin (last 2 days) give you such cheap fee, this time. Hurry up guys!
    So, transaction fee is all about low traffic in bitcoin transfer or transactions. I never thought of this since I am really fan of altcoins but now I am starting to look forward on the best coin which is bitcoin. I downloaded already my bitcoin wallet through phone(mobile wallet).

    It could be wiser to read details here about bitcoin and as I about to move some though it was only small amount then I think I need to be conscious on days or time when it will be a good time to transfer. As seen in the data made by OP shows that sunday is really a nice day to transfer bitcoins. However, if I am right to my conclusions base on the graph that OP's presentation that the Bars for every days of the week shows small gaps even in sunday. Meaning that it could still be possible to get high fees when doing transaction for sundays.
    legendary
    Activity: 2114
    Merit: 1293
    There is trouble abrewing
    Do they keep as profit a greater proportion of what their users during times of low blockchain activity?
    They pay higher fees all the time as mentioned above by tranthidung to ensure that customers are getting faster confirmation. I never faced any late confirmation with Binance. Well, never checked how much they pay in term of current fee, I think they pay as per the recommendation for getting confirmation in the next block.

    i haven't checked Binance but most of the exchanges are already deducting a lot of fee from the users accounts (which is usually a fixed amount too) when they want to withdraw so they have to pay a higher fee to justify that unfair withdrawal fee while taking most of it as their own profit.
    sr. member
    Activity: 1372
    Merit: 322
    Do they keep as profit a greater proportion of what their users during times of low blockchain activity?
    They pay higher fees all the time as mentioned above by tranthidung to ensure that customers are getting faster confirmation. I never faced any late confirmation with Binance. Well, never checked how much they pay in term of current fee, I think they pay as per the recommendation for getting confirmation in the next block.
    copper member
    Activity: 2114
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    Top Crypto Casino
    As a service provider, it is reasonable for them to give their customers fast withdrawal with high fee, at least to make sure withdrawal transactions will be confirmed within next 1 to 6 blocks (ideally 1 to 3 blocks). As said repeatedly, mempool size changes fast and they have to take the most safely option for them -- but mempool does not change exponentially within minutes, it is so rare to see such situations.
    This is no excuse, I do withdraw from Bustadice and their withdrawal fee is dynamic. It literally changes every minute mimicking the changes in the mempool. The highest I have ever paid in Bitcoin fees for instant withdrawal is about 250 Bits (0.00025 BTC) and this was last month during weekdays when bitcoin fees are high. As for the other option of slow withdrawals (withdrawals are not instant but are processed in 24 hours) the fees are in the range of 40 bits (0.00004 BTC), sometimes even 10 bits. This is also dynamic.

    Most of the so-called big exchanges are just hiding behind the withdrawal fee thing to profit more. They will charge you 0.0005 BTC but you will see only 0.0002 BTC paid as fee in your transaction through a bitcoin block explorer.
    legendary
    Activity: 2268
    Merit: 18711
    Binance and most other exchanges I have used charge 0.0005 BTC per BTC withdrawal regardless of the Bitcoin transaction fee. They never lower the amount when fee is cheap but I'm sure they will charge higher once tx fee get increased significantly.
    Yes, I'm aware of that. What I was asking was whether the fee they actually pay on their transactions in terms of sats/vbyte varies greatly depending on the mempool? Do they keep as profit a greater proportion of what their users during times of low blockchain activity?

    It is a shame why Electrum team have not yet updated their documentations for too long.  Undecided
    Probably because they are busy building new versions of Electrum and implementing Lightning support. The docs are on GitHub, so anyone can contribute if they want to update them - https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum-docs
    legendary
    Activity: 2310
    Merit: 4085
    Farewell o_e_l_e_o
    Binance and most other exchanges I have used charge 0.0005 BTC per BTC withdrawal regardless of the Bitcoin transaction fee. They never lower the amount when fee is cheap but I'm sure they will charge higher once tx fee get increased significantly.
    As a service provider, it is reasonable for them to give their customers fast withdrawal with high fee, at least to make sure withdrawal transactions will be confirmed within next 1 to 6 blocks (ideally 1 to 3 blocks). As said repeatedly, mempool size changes fast and they have to take the most safely option for them -- but mempool does not change exponentially within minutes, it is so rare to see such situations.

    Platforms mostly use batch payments for their customers. I don't know you have noticed it before but the kind of batch payment results (partially) in Pending status for your withdrawal. They need to collect bunches of withdrawals and make them into a batch. When the batch (with list of withdrawals) is finished, the Pending status will be changed to Paid/ Finished.

    Of course, Pending contains other things (KYCs, strange IP detections, suspicious withdrawals, etc.)


    In Electrum wallet, they call it as bulk payment [1]. The documentation is for old version of the wallet. It is a shame why Electrum team have not yet updated their documentations for too long.  Undecided

    [1] https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/faq.html#can-i-do-bulk-payments-with-electrum
    copper member
    Activity: 2114
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    Top Crypto Casino
    If you are not in hurry, I expect mempool will be cleared next few hours and transactions with fee at 1 satoshi/ (v)byte can be confirmed. Remember if you use fee at 1 satoshi/ (v)byte, you will have to see your luck, even when fee dips to this rate, it does not mean all transactions at this rate will be filled. You will have to wait for other chances, next days, or next weekend.
    I did manage to make a bitcoin transfer at 1 sat/byte about some 4 hours back. I didn't even wait for more than 30  minutes. All i did was first check out how the mempool looked like.



    How I wish Centralized Exchanges would decrease their Withdrawal fee too when the network is not busy.
    Because Centralized exchanges also profit from your withdrawal fees indirectly. They charge you excess so that they can take 80% of what you paid to their wallets.
    sr. member
    Activity: 1372
    Merit: 322
    Has anyone looked in to the fees big exchanges like Coinbase and Binance pay on their consolidation and withdrawal transactions? How much do they alter with the size of mempool? Obviously they charge the same flat fee all the time to their customers, but do they pay 1 sat/vbyte when they can and just pocket the rest as profit?
    Binance and most other exchanges I have used charge 0.0005 BTC per BTC withdrawal regardless of the Bitcoin transaction fee. They never lower the amount when fee is cheap but I'm sure they will charge higher once tx fee get increased significantly.
    legendary
    Activity: 2268
    Merit: 18711
    How I wish Centralized Exchanges would decrease their Withdrawal fee too when the network is not busy.
    If only they bother upgrade their software to determine withdrawal fee based on current mempool or specific time Tongue
    If only they batched their withdrawal transactions. If only they implemented SegWit. Hell, some of them still don't even let you withdraw to your own SegWit address, let alone use SegWit addresses for their own internal transactions.

    Has anyone looked in to the fees big exchanges like Coinbase and Binance pay on their consolidation and withdrawal transactions? How much do they alter with the size of mempool? Obviously they charge the same flat fee all the time to their customers, but do they pay 1 sat/vbyte when they can and just pocket the rest as profit?
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