Topic: Bitcoin transaction Times SUCK - page 3. (Read 6324 times)

Denmark is the first to actually become serious about it.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/02/technology/cashless-society-denmark/

People are sleepwalking into some odious shit.

All the Scandinavian countries are thinking this way. Cash is not trusted anymore.

My guess would be Sweden.  It is one of the more complicit in the banks' war on cash.

A modern country in northern Europe.

Then you are living in a strange country. Which is it?

If i start to count up cash they look at me like i am an idiot. Noone use cash i my country. Cash will be removed in a few years because noone want it.

I think a 1 to 5 minute confirmation would be great, i just dont know about how they go about restructuring the block reward in that case to have more blocks with in a less period of time with less reward.

Right about what?
Where did I tell a lie?
Every merchant will thank you for using cash. There is pressure to accept credit cards because everybody does. That doesn't mean they like it.
Yes, for a buyer it is convenient, but the involved risk means, that merchants have to make their products more expensive. Do you think, that is not true?
For Bitcoin, there is escrow, which, at least for me, seems like a more fair system as the "The buyer is always right"-policy from credit card companies.

@Borisz
The merchants stay in business, because they put the risk into the price, like you learn in every basic economy education.

I can see that not even the colours could help you to get that it was not about whether or not chargebacks occur. Unfortunately I don't think this issue could be simplified any further for you.
Keep living in a world where millions of companies are still in business because they all hope to one day receive money for their services and as such remain in business.

I agree, Bitcoin should confirm faster because waiting for 1, 3 or even 6 confirmations is horrible and non aceptable nowadays when nearly all is instantaneous. I know some companies are working on it, so all the business will be able to accept 0 confirmation transactions with a extremely very low risk of being rejected (Being able to choose how much risk you are willing to take when receiving payments).

Does it change anything that he is right?

Repeating a lie countless times does not make it true. The debet/credit card system is trusted because it works. Bitcoin has no security for me as a buyer. If a seller does not send the promised goods i dont have any way of getting my coins back but with my credit card i have.

Also with the spam attack i have no problem making a transaction that i know will be rejected. Minimum fee will take care of that...

Your post just confirmed what I said.
Just because you are trying to paint the picture, that a charge back just occurs in 0.1% of the times, doesn't change, that they happen all the time. It is still just hope, that there will be no charge back. There is no certainty. If you as a merchant are more or less often a target of such a scenario is pure luck.
Your examples in the Bitcoin World don't show anything, what would be called a Double Spend.

Making your post colorful doesn't change anything about these facts.

The coloured parts that you didn't understand and/or reflect upon are explained in greater detail below. I hope this will help.

Chargeback
I see people bring this argument trying to promote bitcoin that there is no chargebacks and that when paying with card you can get a chargeback even after >>insert time that is not important here<<. I know that it is trendy to dislike banks and similar, but why this argument? It is a different system based on different merits. It is not hard to understand what you are saying and repeating it won't make you understand why a merchant has trust in the payment processor even when chargebacks can happen. This trust is what I was talking about.

Let us take an example:
Merchant <==> Payment Processor <==> Consumer

The merchant, say BuyBigTVsOnline, sells 1000 TVs online in the USA and accepts credit card payment where there is a possibility for a chargeback for 100 years. Just for the sake of argument. 999 customers are satisfied with the product but one (let's call this person randomly) Bob wants to scam BuyBigTVsOnline and files a charge back claiming that his TV never arrived/was damaged or who cares. He gets his money back and BuyBigTVsOnline lost some negligible amount of money. Bob then goes on and does this 3 more times at which point the Payment Processor freezes his account due to fraud (spice it with lawsuit or whatever pleases you) and Bob is out of the picture. Hence, scammers are eventually caught and the fear of this (or hopefully just the wish to be a decent being) motivates average people not to scam others (e.g BuyBigTVsOnline) for no reason (aka the system works). Here BuyBigTVsOnline (!) has trust in the Payment Processor that it catches scammers and on a grand scale his company (BuyBigTVsOnline) won't lose money and also trusts that the majority of his sales will not be charged back. Hence the trust and a working system.

Note: don't confuse chargeback with return policy where BuyBigTVsOnline gets its TV back and delivery fees should be in its business model. Also some chargebacks are probably included in the same business model, after all we don't live in a world with unicorns. If as a retailer your business model does not include and anticipate such customer behaviour and unfortunate events, then it is probably a bad business plan.

source

The funds are available to you most likely in a few days with a possible chargeback that you should aim to avoid. So after you have read and considered the above, why is chargeback important? Or how is this relevant to bitcoin?

Double-spend "issue"
I think you didn't not fully understand the sentence I wrote previously to which (I think) you were referring. Don't worry, it is not a problem and I will explain it again for you. It is not me who needs to hope/trust that a (for example) double-spend doesn't happen, but the merchant. The blue highlighted parts below refer to one another.

With a 0 confirmation Bitcoin transaction the merchant cannot trust anyone, the best is to hope that the transaction will happen and it is not a double-spend or not in a sidechain (by chance).

Here I will add that he, the merchant, cannot trust the person or Payment Processor organization as an intermediary (or lack of the latter), but he may trust the bitcoin system and underlying software, algorithms as a whole. However, there were issues in the past where coins sent e.g. without a fee were simply held behind and eventually were not included into any block. This needed a manual reset of the transaction and an intentional "double-spend" to transfer the stuck coins. First it appeared that the transaction was sent, but turns out it wasn't. Although this has been fixed a good while ago.

More recent events with Chinese farms also caused a small panic attack, it was settled fast, automatically and no major harm was done. There was also a fixe since, as far as I know.

These two examples are just to show that unanticipated things can happen, have happened before and probably will also happen in the future. We cannot anticipate and prepare for unknowns that we don't know of.

I hope it is all clear for you now!

Ohhh how smart you are.. Can you go past a mirror without stopping to admire yourself?

Have you bought this account?
I don't remember QuestionAuthority writing such a bullshit.
I can't remember if he was tech savy, but someone who is that long on the forums would at least pick up basic stuff.

It does work. Try it.

That's also not how it works. If a node already has the other transaction in his mempool, it won't accept the transaction, even if it has a higher fee.
Learn the fundamentals of Bitcoin before posting bullshit

It's easy to do and must happen more that is reported. Find a vendor, say a coffee shop, that accepts zero confirm transactions and buy your $20 worth of coffee and donuts using your phone wallet. Sit down, open your laptop and initiate a transaction to yourself that you constructed earlier spending the same coins but increase the fee to $0.50. The transaction with the fifty cent fee will be included in a block first and make the other transaction invalid. Close your laptop and walk out with your $0.50 box of donuts and three large coffees. It works well. lol

i can't see how this is contemplated as a problem, when with fiat bank or paypal is the same

with the above services, that i mentioned you see your transaction processed immediately like bitcoin

but the true is that the money are not yet arrived to the recipient, only the order of it was recieved, which can be comparable to confirmation

this mean that bitcoin is anyway, miles ahead of any fiat system albeit it seems the contrary, in the last days

is it me of transactions volume is back to normal, those any one have the number of transactions from yesterday I'm seeing 120k.

if we are back to normal volume at lease a lot of people are going to be happy.