Bitcoin usage and misaligned expectations - page 2.

Searing

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Clueless!

Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 30, 2019, 12:42:24 AM

I believe there are some people in the community who are in the standpoint that "Bitcoin isn't successful" unless they can use it for "almost-zero fee" coffee transactions. But is it truly a failure?

not if it stays a store of value

the catch is with facebook libra my view is will it stay a few years from now, a store of value?

my own thoughts are that if LIBRa as an example works and is stable, that Facebook will make another coin, specifically for a store of value to displace bitcoin

every cartoon I've ever seen with evil villains has me sure of this point, that is how this always works!

but Libra and Facebook claim to have the speed and pockets to make libra the internet centralized currency of choice..even if they are not directly hurting bitcoin now

as so success of Bitcoin in the future to your point, yeah, the status of only being a 'store of value' like gold is somewhat limiting indeed to being a currency

what do I know?

Brad

xWolfx

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Quote from: ?? on ??

It now seems something bad, because we have the ability to pay for the coffee of fiat money. But with the help of bitcoin, we can pay for something more substantial. And people do it and do not spare money to pay for the transaction. I think that soon everyone will get used to it and the transaction fee will not be considered a problem.

Maybe, but i still consider from my point of view that it will be a problem in the future. It might not be at all, but we could consider asking more questions about it and considering some options to implement in the mid-term if necessary. At the end, the team makes the decisions but the inspiration can come from the least expected places.

For now sure not the huge problem but eventually those little everyday transactions will need to be made possible without paying twice only because of the fees.

fiulpro

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Hey

First it was the Segwit integrated wallet which gave us varied number of options to decrease our fee and then again after a year or so we saw the lightning network which for a very minimal fee transfers and receives the money most often instantly.
I think this fee is purely justified , since even the wallets needs some initial investments to rely their security settings continuously.

Other than that maybe we could just in the future have some card or something which can do the transactions without any payment and almost instantly.

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Quote from: ?? on ??

It now seems something bad, because we have the ability to pay for the coffee of fiat money. But with the help of bitcoin, we can pay for something more substantial. And people do it and do not spare money to pay for the transaction. I think that soon everyone will get used to it and the transaction fee will not be considered a problem.

Its not bad because people think it to be bad. We humans have a bad habit of thinking everything new to be the next magic pill while the concept of magic pill itself is a fantasy and not reality. So people think bitcoin to be the source of everything good and that it will correct every problem in the economy. This is a wrong expectation as the OP has tried to express.

Paying for coffee? Use fiat for that, if you are not comfortable with bitcoin transaction fee. The two of them are not supposed to be opposite but to complement each other.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: DooMAD on July 03, 2019, 08:06:19 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 03, 2019, 01:18:37 AM

They fraudulently make newbies believe that the solution is simply to increase the block size, but without pointing out that it centralizes the network. It also requires a hard fork, which is another problem.

A problem for them, anyway. Cheesy

What I don't get is that it should be the easiest concept in the world to grasp. If those securing the chain agree, it happens. If those securing the chain don't agree, it doesn't happen. But somehow they can't comprehend it. There apparently has to be someone to blame for the simple fact they want something those securing the chain don't. Why are some people incapable of understanding that their view isn't necessarily of interest to all the other people on this chain? And why can't they be content with their own chain that the rest of us aren't a part of? Then they could entertain whatever insanity they like.

If their ideas were really as good as they claimed, it would have happened by now. But no, it's definitely a conspiracy of devs controlling the network. Roll Eyes

They'll never learn.

That's basically it. There are some groups of people in the Bitcoin community who want the Core developers, the developers who are the most competent and has the best interest of Bitcoin in mind, out.

They tried it twice with Roger Ver's BitcoinCash hard fork, and then the New York Agreement. The community didn't follow them, they lost.

NathanJB

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 30, 2019, 12:42:24 AM

I believe there are some people in the community who are in the standpoint that "Bitcoin isn't successful" unless they can use it for "almost-zero fee" coffee transactions. But is it truly a failure?

To a certain extent, that is considered a failure because the goal of Satoshi Nakamoto in creating Bitcoin was to provide a form of payment first and foremost. The payment has to be in the form of digital cash and is to be done on a peer-to-peer basis. But if we cannot buy a cup of coffee, which could represent the entire idea of payment, with Bitcoin then there must be something wrong. Something must have gone out of the right path so to speak. If the transaction fee is almost equal to that of a cup of coffee, it simply isn't right.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: romero121 on July 03, 2019, 12:47:50 PM

It isn't a failure but there needs to be some advancement to make flexibility with the fee on some services or on any business. When we're buying a coffee worth $1 and $2 worth transaction fee then it is a failure.

That's the point about "misaligned expectations." Whether it's economical to buy coffee with was never the proper metric to gauge its success. The only reason on-chain transactions were viable years ago for micropayments was because adoption was so nascent; not many people were using Bitcoin yet. Now that adoption has grown so significantly, demand for block space is understandably much higher.

Ideally in the future, there will be many different protocols or applications with varying security models -- some offchain, some with varying degrees of trust or centralization -- and the cost to use these platforms will reflect their security model. With a fully centralized model like Flexa, customers pay zero fees for POS transactions. They just need to pay for one on-chain transaction fee to fund their Flexa/Spedn wallet. Would you want to keep all your bitcoins in Spedn? Of course not. But you could load it with a couple hundred bucks worth of bitcoins like a prepaid card or a checking account and the risk isn't a big deal.

Lightning is obviously a superior model, though it'll be a while before its usability is adequate for mainstream consumers.

Jeremycoin

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𝓗𝓞𝓓𝓛

Quote from: jake zyrus on June 29, 2019, 04:52:29 AM

Bitcoin isn't a failure. If it really is, bitcoin wouldn't survive this long.

That's a really good point. Nothing in this world would be a failure unless it ceases to exist. (even you)

Bitcoin is not perfect. We did indeed expect that Bitcoin would replace fiat as a currency to buy things we need, give a paycheck, etc. But what some people don't realize now is that Bitcoin won't be the same as fiat. Bitcoin is its own currency. It has its own system. If they want something similar like fiat, why bother having an alternative? Bitcoin may not be as what we expected it to, but at least it has successfully fulfilled its main purposes.

romero121

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It isn't a failure but there needs to be some advancement to make flexibility with the fee on some services or on any business. When we're buying a coffee worth $1 and $2 worth transaction fee then it is a failure. There are some occasions, that have caused people to experience such transactions. Further such kind of transaction should not take place relative to the service we get in exchange of bitcoin.

helenfast69

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Quote from: YuginKadoya on May 30, 2019, 01:32:14 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 30, 2019, 12:42:24 AM

I believe there are some people in the community who are in the standpoint that "Bitcoin isn't successful" unless they can use it for "almost-zero fee" coffee transactions. But is it truly a failure?

Failure is on people who don't ride the wave where the price is still cheap, I guess they can not have easy access anymore whenever it is in the forum Earning, Trading, and Investing I guess it is too hard for them to really ride this kind of opportunity, Well I don't think that the technology of Blockchain is a failure because we can see that there are other uses for it instead of just using it on Online Ledger And these companies are highly positive with the technology of Blockchain.

I do not know who there may be considered an unsuccessful Bitcoin Grin

It seems that the numbers speak for themselves as well as the popularity of Bitcoin.
Speaking about the Blockchain technology, we can say that it is already used in some well-known world companies and is only gaining its popularity every day.

Wallflower28

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 30, 2019, 12:42:24 AM

I believe there are some people in the community who are in the standpoint that "Bitcoin isn't successful" unless they can use it for "almost-zero fee" coffee transactions. But is it truly a failure?

Based upon your description in bitcoin`s failure. My premises are:

If bitcoin is not successful because it is not a "almost-zero fee" coffee transactions;
Ethreum and other altcoins are also a failure,
Exchanges are not also success.
Cryptocurrency is nothing.

Well, that is a kind of misaligned expectations. Many people think that the primary concern of bitcoin is to have zero fee transaction. We never meet that because bitcoin was created in order to be mined. Eventually, miners make some fees in order for them to be compensated. Bitcoin is successful because it created an industry wherein there is a equilibrium.

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 03, 2019, 01:18:37 AM

They fraudulently make newbies believe that the solution is simply to increase the block size, but without pointing out that it centralizes the network. It also requires a hard fork, which is another problem.

A problem for them, anyway. Cheesy

What I don't get is that it should be the easiest concept in the world to grasp. If those securing the chain agree, it happens. If those securing the chain don't agree, it doesn't happen. But somehow they can't comprehend it. There apparently has to be someone to blame for the simple fact they want something those securing the chain don't. Why are some people incapable of understanding that their view isn't necessarily of interest to all the other people on this chain? And why can't they be content with their own chain that the rest of us aren't a part of? Then they could entertain whatever insanity they like.

If their ideas were really as good as they claimed, it would have happened by now. But no, it's definitely a conspiracy of devs controlling the network. Roll Eyes

They'll never learn.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: DooMAD on June 28, 2019, 08:50:58 AM

Quote from: TheUltraElite on June 28, 2019, 07:48:07 AM

Truely speaking bitcoin is not a failure. It has done something that traditional monetary system could not do and thus it stands out. We should try to contribute to its constructive criticism more than making FUD on it.

Exactly. The only thing Bitcoin fails at is fitting neatly into people's preconceived notions about how it should work. And rightly so. It challenges their existing views, so they attempt to judge it by metrics it will never conform to and they willfully declare it a failure because it doesn't match up with their limited understanding.

Because the "white paper", the Roger Ver, and the big blocker propaganda. They fraudulently make newbies believe that the solution is simply to increase the block size, but without pointing out that it centralizes the network. It also requires a hard fork, which is another problem.

ityandsyn

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 30, 2019, 12:42:24 AM

I believe there are some people in the community who are in the standpoint that "Bitcoin isn't successful" unless they can use it for "almost-zero fee" coffee transactions. But is it truly a failure?

Everyone has have different perspective about bitcoin and some people are already criticise bitcoin because they think this is not successful since this have not been use for payment like coffee with free transaction fee , and I think this is not the only way of determining factor of the success of bitcoin.

jake zyrus

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Bitcoin isn't a failure. If it really is, bitcoin wouldn't survive this long.

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: TheUltraElite on June 28, 2019, 07:48:07 AM

Truely speaking bitcoin is not a failure. It has done something that traditional monetary system could not do and thus it stands out. We should try to contribute to its constructive criticism more than making FUD on it.

Exactly. The only thing Bitcoin fails at is fitting neatly into people's preconceived notions about how it should work. And rightly so. It challenges their existing views, so they attempt to judge it by metrics it will never conform to and they willfully declare it a failure because it doesn't match up with their limited understanding.

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Quote from: miropp on June 23, 2019, 02:54:32 PM

I don't think there's a big problem with bitcoin. Perhaps when that is in the future it will become a stable currency and its transaction fees will not be so large. We don't know what he's capable of or what the future holds.

I dont get it why you think that transaction fees are going to become smaller. If more people start using bitcoin there will also be more people mining bitcoin. This will increase the competition among miners and they will fight for hashpower. This will not decrease the miner fees but increase in my opinion because people will try to squeeze in money as small as possible to get their transaction done.

Truely speaking bitcoin is not a failure. It has done something that traditional monetary system could not do and thus it stands out. We should try to contribute to its constructive criticism more than making FUD on it.

Irvinn

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In any case, in order to fully use cryptocurrency in everyday life, you need not only knowledge and access to resources for all of humanity, but also you need to think about the appropriate infrastructure. I understand that it is very difficult to break bad habits, but I think that everyone noticed the fact that humanity is very quickly learn everything that makes life easier for him. All High Technologies that became available over the last fifty years were perceived very quickly. I hope that the same situation will be with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: squatter on June 23, 2019, 03:38:02 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:33:55 AM

Pokemon Go reached 1 billion downloads in two years, Facebook, which is only 4 years older than Bitcoin, has 2.4 billion active users, Twitter, which is the same age as Bitcoin has 330 million active users.

Those platforms are free. Bitcoin has financial barriers to entry -- that should be expected to hamper its adoption by orders of magnitude vs. free platforms. Those platforms also didn't exactly need to bootstrap a network from scratch like Bitcoin. They were built on exponentially growing technology trends (smartphone and social media adoption) that tapped into already existing gamers and social media users.

I'd say it goes beyond the financial barrier. It seems like many people aren't ready to overcome the mental barriers they've spent a lifetime building up. Even when some do take an interest in Bitcoin, they don't use it in the way it was intended. Many of them go straight for a webwallet or exchange to store their funds because they can't begin to comprehend a world where they are responsible for the security of their wealth. And the vast majority of the world's population haven't even made it that far yet. It's like as a species, generally speaking, we don't know how to function without a middleman holding our hand.

True adoption on a large scale is going to take time. People have a lot to learn, or unlearn, as it were. Bad habits aren't broken easily.

killat

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Be the reason someone smiles today

Adoption is coming.
After Facebook entering these grounds, before that Samsung & Huawei implementing crypto wallets on their phones, everything started to change and Bitcoin started to receive the attention which he deserves, other cryptocurrencies also.

Whole Australia makes a move to add bitcoin ATM's, payment systems and it is suiting them well for now.
People are starting to understand the decentralization and moving toward it.

Topic: Bitcoin usage and misaligned expectations - page 2. (Read 1164 times)