Topic: Bitcoin vs Monero - page 5. (Read 4578 times)

Yes for anonymity Monero is better than bitcoin, Monero can be one of the greatest alt coin in the future, but the Monero user still not a lot and the place to spend Monero is limited, when a big company invest in Monero I think it has chance to compete with bitcoin

It all depends on what you are looking for if you want anonymity then you go for monero. It's that simple

+1 . Overall very well elucidated. And interesting point about that proof not being a NIZKP. Thanks for pointing that out.

LOL, you live in inversed world )

There's a difference.  If you run a full node, it is very difficult to find out whether your full node processed *your own* transaction, or a transaction coming from a light client connected to you (of which maybe one is yours).  This is why you should run your own monero full node and why it is a bad idea to use light wallets in the first place.  The encrypted tunnels to a full node don't reveal what's inside, only that there was a connection. In order to even start untangling that, you'd need a global surveillance of all local connections too.  This can be done only for specific targets, and even then, it is difficult if several jurisdictions are at work.
So you only run this danger if you are already targeted, after which, it is just a matter of collecting proof.

But when you mix your coins on an FBI mixer, you are 1) signalling yourself and 2) making the mixing useless because they KNOW who brought what, and got out what on what address ; they don't need to pre-target victims, they come themselves, and they bring the proof of their own to their servers.  The first thing is a multi-billion dollar surveillance program with doubtful utility and results, the second is a less-than-one-million program that is a honeypot for people wanting to hide something.

Setting up several FBI mixers is much, much, much lower budget than global internet surveillance and is directly targeting the people they are after without the legal hassle of global surveillance.

A guy buys coins on coinbase, goes to a mixer at the FBI's site, thinks he's safe and buys drugs on a dark market.  The FBI agent looks at the analysis the next morning, sees the buying at a dark market wallet, sees that it comes from coinbase's wallets before mixing, asks a subpoena for coinbase, and knock, knock on the door if he happens to be in the US jurisdiction, or an e-mail to a collegue of a befriended jurisdiction to do the same.

You don't need global internet surveillance for that.  If I were an FBI agent, I'd ask for $1 million budget to set up a few hundred of mixers around the world, and ask for a promotion the next year when I brought down 10 dark markets.

What you fail to see is, all else equal, when you use a bitcoin mixer, you fully trust the owner of the mixer, and you reveal him what you want to hide.  BTW, DASH has exactly the same problem, with the master nodes which are nothing else but trusted mixers.  Only, DASH protects this somewhat more with the fact that you cannot "Sybil attack" the DASH masternode network, as you can "Sybil attack" the bitcoin mixer population like I proposed. 
The counter side to DASH is that most masternodes are in the hands of Evans, so in a certain way, you have to trust Evans for your mixing.  That's probably somewhat safer than trusting the FBI agent, but still.

The Internet is run on US Dept Of Defense Servers.
Many ISP's have a first hop to a traced IP at the DOD.. i know i checked this in Canada 10 years ago.
Further more the ISP's are 101% govt compliant.
Hell this Forum is as i said since mid-2013..
If any govt agency serves a warrant to ANY ISP in America it will get compliance in a heartbeat.
I am not talking about hypothetical shit i am talking about what actually does in fact happen 24/7.

Users on DM's use mixer services etc and usually manage to get away with it.
Otherwise there would be no Dark Market in the first place.

There for i am right as always and i have shown how much of a stupid pile of bullshit this topic is.

You are all comparing and anon coin against Bitcoin used "naked" when you should be comparing it like i said earlier.
How many times do i have to say cut the crap ?  

I have indeed heard a lot that monero is used in deep web for transactions as many people claim it to be more secure and has more anonymity than bitcoin. I don't know so much how anonymity actually works nor I care much as I don't do anything illegal. But the only reason I actually like monero is because of its price and returns it has been providing laterly.

Except, that has nothing to do with anonymity. People can and have done the exact same thing with Bitcoin..

Yes it is, Bitcoin's pseudoanonymity mean's it fails at protecting the privacy of those using it as a currency, especially on TOR sites/deep web

ah this prove that full anonymity can be detrimental, and that bitcoin is actually the king in the dark web too, i always thought that monero was rising because it was used but now that you posted this i think it was a pump and dump

That screen is half year old it happened when Monero was added to Alpha Bay.
Truth is that Darkmarkets use BTC. BTC is currency used on darkmarket. That is a fact and this will not change quite some time. Small part of users that are more privacy oriented use Monero.
Reasons for that are simple. You can see from that screen, that Battalion guy have no ideas how to prove his transaction. If you dont educate yourself is better to stay on what you allready know to use. Like i will not go write here in German altho i should know at least a bit, because I can write way better in English. If somehow Teymos forbid English here, i will force myself to learn German more and write only in German.

Monero is here for those that want to use it. It is not for anyone else.

That's simply wrong. 

https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/user-guides/prove-payment


What monero is still lacking, but I think it is in the making, is multisig, needed for escrow.

the truth about monero usage on deep web markets:

i always hate topics with "Versus" in them because they always attract so many false information and so many trolling as you can already see here.

bitcoin is always going to be THE cryptocurrency and all the rest will remain alt-coins. but this doesn't mean one is better and the other is bad and it certainly doesn't mean the other is good either.

in case of altcoins such as monero, there are lots of potential for them to grow. specially when they have "Useful features".
as long as they continue being developed and move forward with the adoption and the need of that day, they will grow bigger.

There's no need beating around the bush or Comparing Bitcoin & any other Cryptocurrency. Many that tried doing Bitcoin & altcoin Comparison and made predictions about the altcoin going above Bitcoin have all failed. I agree that Monero is a great coin, A Complete coin with Full Privacy Protection feature. Bitcoin on the other hand has less privacy features but still gets picked as the best. The truth is that These Cryptocurrencies all serve different purposes, so I see no need comparing them. either way, Bitcoin still wins tho

That is quite optimistic. In few months? Monero is here for few months less then 3 years. And all it does it is getting more and more anon. In this almost 3 years no one come with anything like it.  Revolutionary things dont happen over night. Something that will happen 3 months from now should be researched and hard work on it for few years at least.  What can happen in few months is a copy/paste coin with lots of hype and marketing. We saw many of them and some are quite "successful".

The idea is not to "hold" on any crypto currency, is it.  The idea is to obtain it against goods and services you sell, and spend it to obtain goods and services.  Like you do with fiat.
If you are holding it, you're gambling on finding a greater fool.  Which may very well work out, btw.

I would be careful about holding Monero as it is mainly predominant in the Dark web markets like Alpha Bay and this and the others could very well end up just like Silk road few years ago... In that case Monero price will suffer it 100% sure...