Bitcoin vs Taxes - page 8. | Bitcointalksearch.org

BaraxLo

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Quote from: Harlot on September 11, 2017, 09:45:00 AM

Quote from: Collinslevi on September 11, 2017, 09:17:58 AM

Quote from: Koadharber on August 23, 2017, 08:12:32 AM

Quote from: sukamasoto on August 23, 2017, 05:54:33 AM

Quote from: Cult on August 23, 2017, 05:01:36 AM

If one could declare it as normal income that would be great, tax rate is low, but bitcoin gains most likely qualify as capital gains, same as forex trading or stocks trading and tax rate is much higher.

Don't really know how someone would declare Bitcoin Cash, it can be qualified as dividends from bitcoin or even as a donation or gift.

Luckily my goverment still forbid bitcoin usage so I can use bitcoin without pay any tax
IMO, even if my goverment one day legalize bitcoin usage, they must not applied tax on bitcoin since bitcoin basically is not a currency but it's a virtual currency

Government cant tax bitcoin directly but they can able to impose taxes on the service which do accepts bitcoin in short even if they would accept or adopt bitcoin they cant directly impose taxes to its users thats why other government do really have this kind of restriction when it comes on bitcoins adoption to their place. Its a decentralized thing and no one can able to control it.

Let's think for a moment about what this means. Bitcoin and similar convertible virtual currencies are property for tax purposes. As with other types of property, first one acquires property, often by exchanging cash for the property. Then one owns the property for a period of time. And then eventually one might sell or give away or trade or otherwise dispose of the property. So with any type of property we have three moments in time: acquiring the property, holding the property, and disposing of the property.

What are you talking about the tax rate being lower if you declare Bitcoin as your normal income? As far as I know tax income rates vary from how much your earnings are (on most countries), not depending on what kind you earn. And yes Bitcoin cannot be tax by the government directly but it is still the obligation of the tax payer to reflect it into their annual tax report in its current Fiat equivalent to avoid being audited by the government, remember it is how much your earn not what kind of money you gain it from.

Yes I agree with you, but it is not in all the countries of the world. some countries officials do not even think of bitcoin till date. In their eyes there is no digital currency in the world which would be the currency of the future and they have no laws for its business and investments.

While in some countries the situation is different. They treated biycoin as a legal and regular currency and has the rules as for paper currency.

adam1230

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If you don't want to pay taxes never turn to FIAT. If you keep spending with bitcoin they will never ask taxes.
And also why we need to cashout FIAT ? As we can still keep trading in bitcoin. We can sell and buy everything using bitcoin and this will never cause us to pay taxes

ALT67890

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In my country there is no such thing being implemented about income tax on bitcoin earnings because it is not yet legalized but we have freedom to don anything about bitcoin except criminal act in using it. But the bitcoin exchanges or local wallet provider here in our country is regulated maybe it is them who were in contract with government about taxation.

newlone

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In my country BTC is an uncontrollable code so the government does not approve it, all BTC deals are out of the law and there are no fees.
But when it is accepted in a certain country and taxation is a must do because you can use the BTC freely it is good.

traccdev

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I think tax is one of the reasons governments hate bitcoins. Because to implement proper technology it will cost a lot. And they are not so certain of bitcoin's future.

prtty2gal2

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Quote from: Harriti on September 11, 2017, 01:45:54 PM

Quote from: Harlot on September 11, 2017, 09:45:00 AM

Quote from: Collinslevi on September 11, 2017, 09:17:58 AM

Quote from: Koadharber on August 23, 2017, 08:12:32 AM

Quote from: sukamasoto on August 23, 2017, 05:54:33 AM

Quote from: Cult on August 23, 2017, 05:01:36 AM

If one could declare it as normal income that would be great, tax rate is low, but bitcoin gains most likely qualify as capital gains, same as forex trading or stocks trading and tax rate is much higher.

Don't really know how someone would declare Bitcoin Cash, it can be qualified as dividends from bitcoin or even as a donation or gift.

Luckily my goverment still forbid bitcoin usage so I can use bitcoin without pay any tax
IMO, even if my goverment one day legalize bitcoin usage, they must not applied tax on bitcoin since bitcoin basically is not a currency but it's a virtual currency

Government cant tax bitcoin directly but they can able to impose taxes on the service which do accepts bitcoin in short even if they would accept or adopt bitcoin they cant directly impose taxes to its users thats why other government do really have this kind of restriction when it comes on bitcoins adoption to their place. Its a decentralized thing and no one can able to control it.

Let's think for a moment about what this means. Bitcoin and similar convertible virtual currencies are property for tax purposes. As with other types of property, first one acquires property, often by exchanging cash for the property. Then one owns the property for a period of time. And then eventually one might sell or give away or trade or otherwise dispose of the property. So with any type of property we have three moments in time: acquiring the property, holding the property, and disposing of the property.

What are you talking about the tax rate being lower if you declare Bitcoin as your normal income? As far as I know tax income rates vary from how much your earnings are (on most countries), not depending on what kind you earn. And yes Bitcoin cannot be tax by the government directly but it is still the obligation of the tax payer to reflect it into their annual tax report in its current Fiat equivalent to avoid being audited by the government, remember it is how much your earn not what kind of money you gain it from.

Haha, please do not think Bitcoin cannot taxes fees by government. Example my country, today they have new rules about create farm for mining cryptocurrency, with them cryptocurrency look like a digital cash but is illegal, therefore if you want to continue mining, you need spend a huge of money for pay taxes fees or stop your farm Grin

Yes it is true that in the creating process the governments implemented taxes on bitcoin, although there is no tax directly on buying and selling in some countries. But I think that once it prevails in the world all the governments in the world would definitely impose taxes on bitcoin. And I think it is a good sign for the betterment of the nation and not for the investors all over the world.

Harriti

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HEX: Longer pays better

Quote from: Harlot on September 11, 2017, 09:45:00 AM

Quote from: Collinslevi on September 11, 2017, 09:17:58 AM

Quote from: Koadharber on August 23, 2017, 08:12:32 AM

Quote from: sukamasoto on August 23, 2017, 05:54:33 AM

Quote from: Cult on August 23, 2017, 05:01:36 AM

If one could declare it as normal income that would be great, tax rate is low, but bitcoin gains most likely qualify as capital gains, same as forex trading or stocks trading and tax rate is much higher.

Don't really know how someone would declare Bitcoin Cash, it can be qualified as dividends from bitcoin or even as a donation or gift.

Luckily my goverment still forbid bitcoin usage so I can use bitcoin without pay any tax
IMO, even if my goverment one day legalize bitcoin usage, they must not applied tax on bitcoin since bitcoin basically is not a currency but it's a virtual currency

Government cant tax bitcoin directly but they can able to impose taxes on the service which do accepts bitcoin in short even if they would accept or adopt bitcoin they cant directly impose taxes to its users thats why other government do really have this kind of restriction when it comes on bitcoins adoption to their place. Its a decentralized thing and no one can able to control it.

Let's think for a moment about what this means. Bitcoin and similar convertible virtual currencies are property for tax purposes. As with other types of property, first one acquires property, often by exchanging cash for the property. Then one owns the property for a period of time. And then eventually one might sell or give away or trade or otherwise dispose of the property. So with any type of property we have three moments in time: acquiring the property, holding the property, and disposing of the property.

What are you talking about the tax rate being lower if you declare Bitcoin as your normal income? As far as I know tax income rates vary from how much your earnings are (on most countries), not depending on what kind you earn. And yes Bitcoin cannot be tax by the government directly but it is still the obligation of the tax payer to reflect it into their annual tax report in its current Fiat equivalent to avoid being audited by the government, remember it is how much your earn not what kind of money you gain it from.

Haha, please do not think Bitcoin cannot taxes fees by government. Example my country, today they have new rules about create farm for mining cryptocurrency, with them cryptocurrency look like a digital cash but is illegal, therefore if you want to continue mining, you need spend a huge of money for pay taxes fees or stop your farm Grin

edward9953100

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bitcoin is so better on without texes

Harlot

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Quote from: Collinslevi on September 11, 2017, 09:17:58 AM

Quote from: Koadharber on August 23, 2017, 08:12:32 AM

Quote from: sukamasoto on August 23, 2017, 05:54:33 AM

Quote from: Cult on August 23, 2017, 05:01:36 AM

If one could declare it as normal income that would be great, tax rate is low, but bitcoin gains most likely qualify as capital gains, same as forex trading or stocks trading and tax rate is much higher.

Don't really know how someone would declare Bitcoin Cash, it can be qualified as dividends from bitcoin or even as a donation or gift.

Luckily my goverment still forbid bitcoin usage so I can use bitcoin without pay any tax
IMO, even if my goverment one day legalize bitcoin usage, they must not applied tax on bitcoin since bitcoin basically is not a currency but it's a virtual currency

Government cant tax bitcoin directly but they can able to impose taxes on the service which do accepts bitcoin in short even if they would accept or adopt bitcoin they cant directly impose taxes to its users thats why other government do really have this kind of restriction when it comes on bitcoins adoption to their place. Its a decentralized thing and no one can able to control it.

Let's think for a moment about what this means. Bitcoin and similar convertible virtual currencies are property for tax purposes. As with other types of property, first one acquires property, often by exchanging cash for the property. Then one owns the property for a period of time. And then eventually one might sell or give away or trade or otherwise dispose of the property. So with any type of property we have three moments in time: acquiring the property, holding the property, and disposing of the property.

What are you talking about the tax rate being lower if you declare Bitcoin as your normal income? As far as I know tax income rates vary from how much your earnings are (on most countries), not depending on what kind you earn. And yes Bitcoin cannot be tax by the government directly but it is still the obligation of the tax payer to reflect it into their annual tax report in its current Fiat equivalent to avoid being audited by the government, remember it is how much your earn not what kind of money you gain it from.

Collinslevi

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Quote from: Koadharber on August 23, 2017, 08:12:32 AM

Quote from: sukamasoto on August 23, 2017, 05:54:33 AM

Quote from: Cult on August 23, 2017, 05:01:36 AM

If one could declare it as normal income that would be great, tax rate is low, but bitcoin gains most likely qualify as capital gains, same as forex trading or stocks trading and tax rate is much higher.

Don't really know how someone would declare Bitcoin Cash, it can be qualified as dividends from bitcoin or even as a donation or gift.

Luckily my goverment still forbid bitcoin usage so I can use bitcoin without pay any tax
IMO, even if my goverment one day legalize bitcoin usage, they must not applied tax on bitcoin since bitcoin basically is not a currency but it's a virtual currency

Government cant tax bitcoin directly but they can able to impose taxes on the service which do accepts bitcoin in short even if they would accept or adopt bitcoin they cant directly impose taxes to its users thats why other government do really have this kind of restriction when it comes on bitcoins adoption to their place. Its a decentralized thing and no one can able to control it.

Let's think for a moment about what this means. Bitcoin and similar convertible virtual currencies are property for tax purposes. As with other types of property, first one acquires property, often by exchanging cash for the property. Then one owns the property for a period of time. And then eventually one might sell or give away or trade or otherwise dispose of the property. So with any type of property we have three moments in time: acquiring the property, holding the property, and disposing of the property.

deisik

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Quote from: RodeoX on August 31, 2017, 03:11:27 PM

Quote from: Kava on August 30, 2017, 11:10:13 AM

Bitcoin was created as an anonymous uncontrolled currency, and taxes would deprive it of such an opportunity. I think that you do not need to pay taxes for using crypto-currencies.

That will make a poor legal defense at your trial. In the USA it is this simple:
Did you make money? YES
Then you owe tax on it. No exceptions.

Sad but true

On the other hand, you could pretend that you didn't make any money. Yes, you cashed out some coins but you can claim that you had to cash out at a loss (due to emergency or something to that tune). I guess with Bitcoin it is a lot easier to get away with that than if you bought, say, stocks or bonds, and where all your transactions can be easily traced and verified. This is not the case with crypto

barbara44

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 02:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

I have to face various taxes. But it won't really matter a lot because it is a important thing we should pay. Bitcoin itself does not have any taxes but converting it to fiat takes some tax. That taxes can't be bypassed here. In order to convert my bitcoins to cash, i have to do a bank deposit and it surely takes some tax. We have to pay GST in my region. Yes, the taxes depends on the income but it can't be refused. Bitcoin is a legal act and also you can draw your audit at the end of year to keep all your records.

adzino

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Quote from: Kava on August 30, 2017, 11:10:13 AM

Bitcoin was created as an anonymous uncontrolled currency, and taxes would deprive it of such an opportunity. I think that you do not need to pay taxes for using crypto-currencies.

Does not matter if it is an anonymous currency, as long as you are making money, as a law abiding citizen you must be paying taxes.
By the way, bitcoin is not completely anonymous, it is more like pseudo anonymous. Google about it and you will know what i am saying.

RodeoX

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Quote from: Kava on August 30, 2017, 11:10:13 AM

Bitcoin was created as an anonymous uncontrolled currency, and taxes would deprive it of such an opportunity. I think that you do not need to pay taxes for using crypto-currencies.

That will make a poor legal defense at your trial. In the USA it is this simple:
Did you make money? YES
Then you owe tax on it. No exceptions.

tittensor

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Activity: 443

Merit: 250

Quote from: Webetcoins on August 31, 2017, 10:17:49 AM

Quote from: rivoke on August 29, 2017, 10:17:32 PM

Quote from: Dainye_dyep on August 29, 2017, 09:41:50 PM

Quote from: Emoclaw on July 15, 2017, 02:11:08 AM

If you sell Bitcoin for Fiat, then you have to pay taxes.
While Bitcoin is a currency, it is considered a commodity and therefore by selling it you're 'making money'.
It's illegal if you don't pay taxes.

True, and thats what bitcoin may encounter for the next few years , since it provides so much money it doesnt shock that sooner every tradings and investments may require tax and thats one of the condition when you are trying to deal with legalization of bitcoin worldwide, it may run with other currency and it will be use worldwide taxes will run over it.

But if bitcoin become currency , it will broke bitcoin as decentralized currency since it will being control by goverment
Bitcoin should not be a currency , it's unique and let it be as investation plus currency advantage

Yeah! I don’t know why people want bitcoins to be treated as national currency. This thing is going to give bloody governments control over bitcoins and probably that would be an end of our freedom provided by bitcoins. Let them be the way they are, they are doing best this way.

When Bitcoin community want it become to famous and expensive, it also synonymous Bitcoin user accept the future government control Bitcoin. Because if they cannot taxes fee in Bitcoin, they never agree the survival of Bitcoin.

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

Quote from: Kava on August 30, 2017, 11:10:13 AM

Bitcoin was created as an anonymous uncontrolled currency, and taxes would deprive it of such an opportunity. I think that you do not need to pay taxes for using crypto-currencies.

Bitcoin was always semi anonymous.
Besides Satoshi wasn't really emphasizing on anonymity in his paper.

Quote

The necessity to announce all transactions publicly precludes this method, but privacy can still be maintained by breaking the flow of information in
another place: by keeping public keys anonymous. The public can see that someone is sending an amount to someone else, but without information linking the transaction to anyone. This is similar to the level of information released by stock exchanges, where the time and size of individual trades, the "tape", is made public, but without telling who the parties were

This is all we got in the initial project.
And taxes are not on using crypto currencies , taxes are on gains by using everything or selling stuff.
It's quite easy for any authority to tax cryptos if they put their heads to it for more than a minute.
After all , in order to convert or buy stuff you still need an exit way. This is where the anonymity ends.

Milo_Kidd

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As of I know bitcoin here in our place have no taxes. I dont know if its transaction tax is already deducted. But if not its the good thing here in bitcoin. Maybe in transacting this cryptocurrency the provider who have the right for taxes. I not really sure how was the bitcoin transaction charges. May it depends on the network provider. Or the bank itself.

Webetcoins

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Quote from: rivoke on August 29, 2017, 10:17:32 PM

Quote from: Dainye_dyep on August 29, 2017, 09:41:50 PM

Quote from: Emoclaw on July 15, 2017, 02:11:08 AM

If you sell Bitcoin for Fiat, then you have to pay taxes.
While Bitcoin is a currency, it is considered a commodity and therefore by selling it you're 'making money'.
It's illegal if you don't pay taxes.

True, and thats what bitcoin may encounter for the next few years , since it provides so much money it doesnt shock that sooner every tradings and investments may require tax and thats one of the condition when you are trying to deal with legalization of bitcoin worldwide, it may run with other currency and it will be use worldwide taxes will run over it.

But if bitcoin become currency , it will broke bitcoin as decentralized currency since it will being control by goverment
Bitcoin should not be a currency , it's unique and let it be as investation plus currency advantage

Yeah! I don’t know why people want bitcoins to be treated as national currency. This thing is going to give bloody governments control over bitcoins and probably that would be an end of our freedom provided by bitcoins. Let them be the way they are, they are doing best this way.

chip1994

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HEX: Longer pays better

Quote from: bajing on August 30, 2017, 09:34:43 AM

Paying taxes or income tax, it's mean bitcoin has legalized in our country. it's true, we all wishes not to pay income tax when using bitcoin as form of money but actually what's wrong by paying taxes as long we got benefit from that's and when we face a problem, i think we will got support from government, in case the exchanger have a problem or collapse.

Exchanger, miner are subjects of government want taxes fees user Bitcoin, that is purpose of them when accept Bitcoin and helps Bitcoin become to legal. Taxes fees with other user Bitcoin is possible, because they cannot track all user on network Grin

salihno71

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Interesting point here is that taxes are related to the fiat currencies one way or another. If/when cryptos become percentually significant part of global daily transactions, governments will have to figure out new ways to address the issue. It will be interesting to see how this will unfold.

Topic: Bitcoin vs Taxes - page 8. (Read 6968 times)