Bitcoin vs Taxes - page 10. | Bitcointalksearch.org

deisik

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Quote from: seraph_the_wise on August 25, 2017, 06:38:36 AM

yeah, varies from country to country. Likely counts as capital gains (tax) when converting the amount from crypto to fiat currency, but the question is then, how does the IRS ascertain the purchase price (likely self-reported Wink

) and what kind of proof is required, as this will determine the amount of tax. It gets even murkier on donations and pure crypto transactions (with no fiat conversion involved) - asset ownership transfer or donation tax? Even more complicated is what entity/entities gets to receive those taxes (country of citizenship, country of residence, node-based distribution). Personally I don't see it resolved unless an international regulatory framework is agreed on by most countries

But that's even less likely

To be resolved in any definitive manner since every country seems to have their own, particular view on Bitcoin. In some countries (say, Japan) it is fully allowed just like any other currency (read Bitcoin is considered as just a foreign currency). In other countries (for example, Russia), there is no official regulation of Bitcoin whatsoever, and it continues to dwell in the so-called "twilight zone". I don't even mention countries where it is not just explicitly banned but people are actually thrown into jail for simply mining a cryptocurrency. Okay, let's call one such country, Venezuela seems to be the most glaring example of this kind

Livnem-soul

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Quote from: Emoclaw on July 15, 2017, 02:11:08 AM

If you sell Bitcoin for Fiat, then you have to pay taxes.
While Bitcoin is a currency, it is considered a commodity and therefore by selling it you're 'making money'.
It's illegal if you don't pay taxes.

Taxes need to be paid in any case. You in everything are right. It would be desirable to add that it is better to pay, than to hide.

seraph_the_wise

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yeah, varies from country to country. Likely counts as capital gains (tax) when converting the amount from crypto to fiat currency, but the question is then, how does the IRS ascertain the purchase price (likely self-reported Wink

) and what kind of proof is required, as this will determine the amount of tax. It gets even murkier on donations and pure crypto transactions (with no fiat conversion involved) - asset ownership transfer or donation tax? Even more complicated is what entity/entities gets to receive those taxes (country of citizenship, country of residence, node-based distribution). Personally I don't see it resolved unless an international regulatory framework is agreed on by most countries.

Barbut

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Some countries have some still don't, that depends from country to country. I know about Australia they paid double taxes on bitcoin, now they don't cause the government nre measures. They wish to push that technology sector and to give it more space for developing. Sooner or later other countries will follow that, some counties will have strict laws about bitcoin, others will be more opened to bitcoin. There is no way to predict what will happen, we need to wait and see. Every country will be specific, and I think we will see many different decisions and laws in the future.

Lieldoryn

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The Bible says that people must give 10% to God. I'm not a believer, but I think that this amount is time-tested. All that the government extorts taxes more than 10% of people will hide. And bitcoin is no exception. Tax evasion is a kind of protest of the people against robbery.

RodeoX

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Quote from: Cult on August 23, 2017, 05:01:36 AM

If one could declare it as normal income that would be great, tax rate is low, but bitcoin gains most likely qualify as capital gains, same as forex trading or stocks trading and tax rate is much higher.
...

In the U.S. that would be devastating. Capitol gains tax is generally 0-15% whereas income tax is likely about 30%. You would more than double your tax burden if you had to pay income tax on your coins.

Koadharber

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Quote from: sukamasoto on August 23, 2017, 05:54:33 AM

Quote from: Cult on August 23, 2017, 05:01:36 AM

If one could declare it as normal income that would be great, tax rate is low, but bitcoin gains most likely qualify as capital gains, same as forex trading or stocks trading and tax rate is much higher.

Don't really know how someone would declare Bitcoin Cash, it can be qualified as dividends from bitcoin or even as a donation or gift.

Luckily my goverment still forbid bitcoin usage so I can use bitcoin without pay any tax
IMO, even if my goverment one day legalize bitcoin usage, they must not applied tax on bitcoin since bitcoin basically is not a currency but it's a virtual currency

Government cant tax bitcoin directly but they can able to impose taxes on the service which do accepts bitcoin in short even if they would accept or adopt bitcoin they cant directly impose taxes to its users thats why other government do really have this kind of restriction when it comes on bitcoins adoption to their place. Its a decentralized thing and no one can able to control it.

Blamsud

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Quote from: ScriptYoYo on August 23, 2017, 05:58:39 AM

Yes, for profit from the sale of crypto currency, you need to pay tax, but in our country so far it has not been accepted and I manage to evade taxes. To avoid taxes it is also not good to sell coins, but to make purchases for them.

We can consider the taxes from the transaction fees if there is a company involved like in deposits and cashing out of our btc. I think it will be hard to put taxes in online transactions when there is no in built companies related.

ScriptYoYo

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Yes, for profit from the sale of crypto currency, you need to pay tax, but in our country so far it has not been accepted and I manage to evade taxes. To avoid taxes it is also not good to sell coins, but to make purchases for them.

sukamasoto

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Quote from: Cult on August 23, 2017, 05:01:36 AM

If one could declare it as normal income that would be great, tax rate is low, but bitcoin gains most likely qualify as capital gains, same as forex trading or stocks trading and tax rate is much higher.

Don't really know how someone would declare Bitcoin Cash, it can be qualified as dividends from bitcoin or even as a donation or gift.

Luckily my goverment still forbid bitcoin usage so I can use bitcoin without pay any tax
IMO, even if my goverment one day legalize bitcoin usage, they must not applied tax on bitcoin since bitcoin basically is not a currency but it's a virtual currency

sandrun

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My country to buy bitcoin is not taxable. But if you want to sell bitcoin .. I will be taxed. Maybe if you save your money in fiat form .. you will pay taxes on the bank or government. But if you keep bitcoin for a long time. You will avoid taxes .. and you will benefit from storing bitcoin. Your money will not be lost .. while the tax will spend your money in the future.

Cult

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If one could declare it as normal income that would be great, tax rate is low, but bitcoin gains most likely qualify as capital gains, same as forex trading or stocks trading and tax rate is much higher.

Don't really know how someone would declare Bitcoin Cash, it can be qualified as dividends from bitcoin or even as a donation or gift.

deisik

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Quote from: pinkpanther03 on August 23, 2017, 03:46:08 AM

Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 02:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

Sometimes I've been thinking about if bitcoin become legalize in other country is it good? because, if the government declare bitcoin as their legal currency, does this means it has tax? something like that,..but as long as bitcoin decentralized bitcoin can't have taxes in every transaction.

It is not clear what you mean by "legal currency"

If you mean making Bitcoin into legal tender (with which you can pay local taxes), that would make Bitcoin an official currency of that country. Obviously, it is rather strange to tax something with which you can pay taxes (I don't mean capital gains, of course). On the other hand, if you mean accepting Bitcoin as a foreign currency (sort of), then taxing it would obviously depend on specific jurisdiction since many governments follow different approaches in respect to taxing gains obtained via currency exchange operations

olushakes

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Quote from: hdclover on July 25, 2017, 12:27:03 PM

bitcoin is not currency and it should not be taxed.

That would be your opinion but not from the point of view of government and moreso, its not only a currency that is being taxed other items includes property, services, documents among other variances. It now depends on the category each country wants to put earnings from bitcoin into and they will then tax accordingly and there is nothing anybody can do about it so far its within the purview of the law,

pinkpanther03

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 02:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

Sometimes I've been thinking about if bitcoin become legalize in other country is it good? because, if the government declare bitcoin as their legal currency, does this means it has tax? something like that,..but as long as bitcoin decentralized bitcoin can't have taxes in every transaction.

CleverOracle

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Quote from: Rahar02 on July 28, 2017, 06:57:06 PM

Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 02:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

Yes, most people invest on bitcoin in order to get profits but there are some things that you have to pay as well such as bitcoin transaction fees and exchanges fees to withdraw. If an exchange has deposit fees, then it doesn't make sense, do not deposit at there.
If a country stated you have to pay tax if you buy bitcoin, what can you do to avoid that? Just pay it. Or looking for someone who wants to sell bitcoin, so you don't have to pay exchanges fees or tax.
Fortunately, in my country there is no such regulations, and all we have to pay is withdraw fiat currency on exchanges.

Very interesting situation I would've never imagined that could be possible but since it is, I would suggest that people go to alternate cryptocurrencies such as Monero which is the XMR. The question is how are can you going to pay taxes when the government cannot find out who you are Huh

there are over 1000 versions of alternate cryptocurrencies search for the right one that works for your own purposes.

Rahar02

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 02:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

Yes, most people invest on bitcoin in order to get profits but there are some things that you have to pay as well such as bitcoin transaction fees and exchanges fees to withdraw. If an exchange has deposit fees, then it doesn't make sense, do not deposit at there.
If a country stated you have to pay tax if you buy bitcoin, what can you do to avoid that? Just pay it. Or looking for someone who wants to sell bitcoin, so you don't have to pay exchanges fees or tax.
Fortunately, in my country there is no such regulations, and all we have to pay is withdraw fiat currency on exchanges.

cotton ball

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The best way to see bitcoin acceptable to the world is regulation, government regulations will have an impact on the tax sector, I think there is no problem with this because it is the best condition to be accepted in world economy. I do not think how much income they will cut but the most important is how many bitcoins are capable of generating change in modern world.

swetka

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Quote from: Potato Chips on July 28, 2017, 03:25:27 PM

Quote from: whaawh on July 28, 2017, 02:19:01 PM

Quote from: ocid on July 28, 2017, 01:28:51 PM

Bitcoin transactions can provide benefits like investments, but in my country the government or authorities have not been able to clarify Bitcoin's status. If the central bank clarifies the existence status of Bitcoin then the government can already apply the tax on the Bitcoin.

Generally speaking, I would not like to work legally, but people are always strangled with taxes. I actually agree to pay taxes, because thanks to them, the state lives. But I do not agree when taxes turn into state robbery. That's why I would not want Bitcoin to be legalized, because the state will be able to control my income.

so you want to work illegally? lol. i think its better to stay away from illegal things, yes you are gaining something but if you got busted the loss will probably be greater than your

gains. as for taxing bitcoin don't worry they can't do that much as no one is controlling bitcoin, they can't access it. if they wan't to tax it that bad, they will probably target the

exchanges in other words, wallets with private keys you don't have any control. bottomline you get charge if you signed up on them.

How then to feel secure in their coins.

Potato Chips

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Quote from: whaawh on July 28, 2017, 02:19:01 PM

Quote from: ocid on July 28, 2017, 01:28:51 PM

Bitcoin transactions can provide benefits like investments, but in my country the government or authorities have not been able to clarify Bitcoin's status. If the central bank clarifies the existence status of Bitcoin then the government can already apply the tax on the Bitcoin.

Generally speaking, I would not like to work legally, but people are always strangled with taxes. I actually agree to pay taxes, because thanks to them, the state lives. But I do not agree when taxes turn into state robbery. That's why I would not want Bitcoin to be legalized, because the state will be able to control my income.

so you want to work illegally? lol. i think its better to stay away from illegal things, yes you are gaining something but if you got busted the loss will probably be greater than your

gains. as for taxing bitcoin don't worry they can't do that much as no one is controlling bitcoin, they can't access it. if they wan't to tax it that bad, they will probably target the

exchanges in other words, wallets with private keys you don't have any control. bottomline you get charge if you signed up on them.

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