Topic: Bitcoin was created to reform money and provide financial freedom - page 4. (Read 1458 times)

Yes of course and I will tell you why, the world is advancing in both technology and crime and transacting some things between individuals alone can see an individual robbed and deprived of his coins and his money, so it is better and more secured for most people to sell and buy on reputable exchanges which offer them security against assets loss and victimization. upon acquisition, you are advised to move the coins to a decentralized wallet because not your keys equals not your coin

There are also many other ways of  acquiring bitcoin without patronizing exchanges like bitcoin paid jobs online, offering goods and services with renumeration in bitcoin, offline peer to peer ( sometimes, I buy my coins from friends who are in need of funds, and are sent directly to my opensource wallets).

I really think you're wrong, the core features of bitcoin creation is decentralization of money system, privacy, anonymity and freedom from government interference and regulatory activities on public funds. P2P is a feature that supports the freedom from as you can transact with someone directly without the involvement of a third party. The part of purchasing goods and services online still works, I still get paid for services rendered in bitcoin at will, I think the fact that it is not rampant is due to the fact that most people have not adopted it as a means of payment, the more its adoption, the more that feature works more effectively.

The store in your area is still possibly in an underdeveloped environment which has major dependence on fiat, another thing to consider is the quantity and cost of goods you are purchasing, also how much digitally exposed is that store owner. I believe that bitcoin would not replace fiat totally, but it can take care of larger, more meaningful transactions rather than peanut transactions that little units of fiat can handle.

If you had a volatile currency would you be happy. I don't think so, because it would be a big risk. Imagine if your money becomes worthless because its value keeps going down. Perhaps the best thing to do now is to make Bitcoin an investment instrument. Because I imagine it will be complicated when it becomes money and its value is still fluctuating. There will be no control over its fixed value and this could hurt us, although it could also be profitable.

It is no longer new to us that bitcoin has digressed to a certain extent the reason it was created but then it is not completely out of place. The investment asset it is discovered to be as against the proposed currency status has also helped to send people out of poverty.

My major concern is any threat against bitcoin and such threats should be a threat against the decentralized nature of bitcoin, 50% attack and not just the exchanges using bitcoin in a centralized way.

You have made a vital point however, one can embrace other project coming up that are beneficial to the system. That will help the coin to get awareness and it's use cases will continue to be broaden. It will be better to see to lessen the workload on the system by see how the system will work faster.

that is sad but reality and this change the purpose and the position of bitcoin to which Satoshi aim to create and that is to be a currency that will be used worldwide and not to be an asset to be stocked in each wallets.
and this will never be adopted if that will be the use of bitcoin for the next coming years.

Even before the approval of the spot Bitcoin ETF, Bitcoin was already perceived by most investors as an investment asset, and with the arrival of players like Blackrock, this became an irrevocable point, now I am almost sure that Bitcoin has no chance of becoming a means of payment, now it will definitely become the digital gold, that they want control the most powerful foundations and corporations in the world. Whether this is good or bad, I don’t know, if you have Bitcoin, you will definitely make a good profit.

That's what I mean, we need to adapt to the current situation and accept the fact that bitcoin is a commodity. So I will not agree when someone says that bitcoin is better than any other currency or that it will be used as currency in the future. That is gone and we will never be able to do that.

It's not that ETFs or governments have commodified bitcoin, it's that we have commodified bitcoin. ETFs have only recently been approved and governments have only recently become interested in bitcoin, but bitcoin has been trading on exchanges since 2010 and 2012 and its volatility has persisted for many years ago.
Bitcoin is an asset, a commodity.

It was intended to be that way.

Most Bitcoiners won't admit it (I was one of them). It has been infiltrated to a certain degree - however I don't believe it can be controlled at all like fiat. The best they can do is surveillance - build an umbrella over the top and enforce their draconian measures.

I still hold BTC, I think it will appreciate in value and be sound money for years to come. I think it's a great alternative to gold.

However there's clearly going to be a period of insane top down government control. People are waking up to the reality of the system, however it's not being brought down or slowed by any means.

For me, I will use Monero as cash dries up - it's easy and it works. The best evidence is the Binance delisting, The super rich controlling the world fear Monero much more than Bitcoin. It's the #1 adopted cryptocurrency on dark net markets.

Digital ID's may be required to get online soon, and that will be hard to spend bitcoin/monero. People are resilient though, we'll find a way to route around them.

Sure if we see a mad max situation and the power, internet goes down, digital coins are useless, you're going to want some gold, silver, food, supplies.

The main reason for creating bitcoin cannot work at the moment, so it's not surprising that it is still yet to start functioning, and one of the reasons why we still don't get lucky to be using bitcoin in the way it was created is because the way currency is, nobody regulates it; it controls itself, including the market, and it's a decentralised currency. Since we can't use it without government approval, you can see that there is no way we can use bitcoin as a means of making payments in our respective countries, and you know the government won’t allow something they won’t take their part or control in the country.

However, another thing is that all these big investors and businessmen and women are not ready for bitcoin. Although some of them  knows that it has many freedoms that will make their business easier without them stressing themselves, the only thing here is that these people are not ready to learn, and some of them are still scared of bitcoin since the government has made it prohibited for them. If they start using it in their stores, they may later lose the funds. That is what some are thinking.

While some did not want to learn, sit down and learn the whole process of bitcoin transactions as it will take their time before they understand the process, so they feel it is better to continue using their fiat currency that is regulated by the government. There is still the problem of how people view bitcoin in your area because some people who are unaware of it still think bitcoiners are fraudsters. They use it for fraud, which is why they can’t accept it, although to me the only obstacle that bitcoin is still having is the government.


Yeah. Bitcoin cannot be accepted because of the government. In my opinion, those who buy good and sell will find it difficult to do that because they go and buy from another store to sell, so what if they accept and where they are buying something does not accept? If you can see that, it will be a very big challenge for them.

 However, let me just say that bitcoin is for the new generation as everybody is adopting the cryptocurrency, and of course, I think these investments are pushing people to learn about bitcoin, so to me, it’s perfect when we have millions of investors, even if the government later accepts it as another means of making payments in a country. They already have people who know about it, so they will teach others who don’t know anything about it.

People who buy bitcoin in exchange know that many people are doing p2p, so they buy it and move it to their wallets, where they can store their bitcoin. As you know, exchange is not safe for storing bitcoin.

Why people is interested more in bitcoin is because is a decentralized kind of something and when looking at bitcoin transaction and investment you will see that is not stressful as other kind of investment, and without bitcoin been decentralized it would have be manipulated, so therefore you have to understand that bitcoin is more understanding than any other investment that have to do with serious monitor

I don't think you are correct in saying that Bitcoin was created in response to the financial crisis of 2008. As a matter of fact, if terms should be defined well, it is an economic crisis, and it lasted between 2007 and 2009. But this is not in any way the reason why Bitcoin was created and I like you to know that Bitcoin is not powerful enough to solve the economic problems of the world or any nation, it can only be an edge against inflation,, just like any other assets, nothing more.

However, in my opinion, the main motive of Satoshi in creating Bitcoin was to create a decentralised system that would not be overseen by the government or any central authority, while the rest (investments, trading, staking etc) are just an added advantage. Needless to say, Bitcoin was an experiment that later became true, adopted and appreciated by the whole world, and great kudos to him/her/them (Satoshi Nakamoto).

Mind you, I would advise you to leave any fiat currency alone, they are doing just fine and Bitcoin can never exist in isolation, it needs them even as they do not need it. We should only be appreciative that the global government allows Bitcoin to hold and not see it as a total enemy to clamp down on. If they do, I am sure that it might not see the light of the day the way we see it now.

Bitcoin wasn't created as a response to the 2008's financial crisis. It was created to offer you purely p2p version of electronic cash that would also offer you non-reversible transaction and would save you mediation costs. Bitcoin simply wasn't meant and designed for massive usage because otherwise there wouldn't be 1MB block size in the first case. Also, high blocksize requires high space and makes it expensive to run bitcoin nodes. The difficulty and expansivity of running a bitcoin node would lead to a centralization instead of decentralization.

Bitcoin was created solely for making ecommerce better than it was, that's all. Many people stick different labels to it but during that moment, it was the aim. It wasn't created to bury USD and save the world from riches.

But in my country that will never happen, Bitcoin is only used as an investment, not for full adoption. Bitcoin may have a price that is increasing at the moment but it will only be a speculative asset and not in accordance with the main purpose of Bitcoin being created. The more new investors who enter, of course the volume of Bitcoin will be greater, they want multiple profits, so Bitcoin is only a tool for trading and investing.

Not trying to be pessimistic but in all honesty, I don't think there is any project you are buliding right now that will ever succeed bitcoin, as long as it's crypto currency related, except you are bringing an entirely new concept to the table.

I would on my own, tell you that, what bitcoin has achieved so far is not far from what Satoshi himself or their self wanted for it, Satoshi may not have mentioned any of this in the bitcoin white paper, but the honest truth is that, he or they created bitcoin to actually become a store of value, and that bitcoin is today, for there is no way something will be a store of value without being an asset peoople can invest in to make profit.

And a headsup I am going to give you is, whatever project you are building, if it's not like bitcoin, then you hardly will find people who are or will be interested in investing and holding the coin, people wanna put money on things they can profit from, most especially if such product is internet based.

I have never used it, but I know that it does not work like exchanges do. You cannot withdraw it to your wallet, and I don't think PayPal has proof of reserves, so I don't know even if these coins exist in the first place and aren't some sort of IOU.

Sorry, I have no damn clue.

Indeed. And that's because it introduces some regulatory convenience. Let's see how this goes. Still, though. Someone has to safeguard bitcoin, which is not really different from a crypto exchange. The only difference is that there is more regulatory ground to base it. If an anonymous hacker compromises the infrastructure, I wonder what will happen to investors' money.

I don't think that the solution is "reputation". The problem comes from the fact that knowledge of a private key can alter ownership, which is fundamentally different than the traditional model where there are lots of documents and procedures involved to change the ownership of a car, house etc. Attempting to falsely alter the ownership of a property can also result in imprisonment, which discourages thieves further.

However, even if regulations become more strict, and crypto firms must be held accounted for financial losses, and / or maybe even if the state compensates them, the problem still remains. Ownership changes with the knowledge of a number, anonymously, with no disincentive for imprisonment.

I am not as apprised how every institution handles crypto, although I know PayPal allows you to buy crypto, and are a mainstream financial player.

Of course all of this is moot now, since you can bet on Bitcoin using any major brokerage in the world using the ETF. As I said, I suspect much of the market will move to that if they haven't already (is there some way we can tell how much has been moved to the ETF?).


I thought we were talking about serious investors, who will buy large quantities, i.e. Michael Saylor. Not "average consumers".

[/quote]

Well, I guess there's a continuum of investors from "large" to "small" and sophisticated to less so. Lots of people with, say, $1m+ to invest may well be unsophisticated investors. Probably the ones in the billions can afford their own infrastructure, but as I said before, this infrastructure is not at all cheap to create and maintain.


Again, bad analogy!