Bitcoin Whales Are Selling BTC Before Market Crash: Peter Schiff

HarmonyA

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Quote from: ecnalubma on October 30, 2019, 12:04:16 PM

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Peter Schiff ruthlessly shatters the dreams of Bitcoin holders who hope that the top coin will reach new highs, reiterating his point about market manipulations.

Peter Schiff, the CEO of Euro Pacific Capital, is not amused by Bitcoin's latest 40 percent price revival.

The world-famous gold proponent continues to insist that the crypto market is being manipulated by deep-pocketed whales.

In his latest tweet, Schiff states that large Bitcoin holders want to protect themselves from the upcoming market crash by selling their BTC and using delusional holders to cash in.

After numerous pundits tried to wrap their heads around the recent market rally, Schiff took to Twitter to share his own take on Oct. 28. He believes that this Bitcoin turnaround had nothing to do with China and everything to do with whales "suckering in" gullible buyers.

Schiff rose to stardom by accurately foreseeing the financial market crisis in 2008, but Bitcoin price predictions might not be his thing.

As reported by U.Today, he claimed that the BTC price could plunge to as low as $2,000 on Oct. 20, less than a week before Bitcoin recorded its third biggest daily gain in history.

His $4,000 prediction, which was made right after Bitcoin's precipitous plunge to the $8,000 level, also never came to fruition.

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Undeniably price manipulation often happens in unregulated crypto markets. Do you agree in this economist statement or do you oppose? Do you believe that recent price surge is cause by manipulation or natural demand?

They are whale because they are huge investors. This is expected of any investor who wants to make huge profits. They are not sympathetic, and they are not wicked. There plan for investing is to make profit and nothing less.
The price is a characteristic of manipulation, when it's natural, it will not really within a short period in time as the demand will be high.

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Quote from: FanEagle on November 17, 2019, 10:17:16 AM

Quote from: deisik on November 15, 2019, 11:40:46 AM

Quote from: Webetcoins on November 13, 2019, 10:38:20 AM

Every investor counts and holds its own role. The impact of those who buy or sell big amounts is indeed greater than those who play in points but still if a lot of small investors will sell out, it is going to leave same impression on market value of the coin as that done by a big whale. Moreover, it is not only whales or investors that are only factor. The market depends on government movements too

There is even a theory that there are no whales (only big holders who are not trading)

And thus there are no market manipulations either, so all price movements are only caused by changes in aggregate demand as well as supply. Personally, I'm not very much sold on this theory, but that's not my point here. The main problem with the current market is that even relatively small investors and traders can move the market on their own (i.e. not collectively). In this way, they are the new whales, with truly big whales hiding deep under the surface

Anyone that has large amount of money to move in and out of the market at the shortest possible time is to me termed as a whale whether they are individual or group of people, so whales actually do exist and they started too when the wall street entered the market, it was from there that the manipulation of this bitcoin started

It is only a theory, and I do not necessarily endorse it

Quote from: FanEagle on November 17, 2019, 10:17:16 AM

Also, it is not every time like you said we see all forms of dip and rise of bitcoin as manipulation, some are definitely caused by the activities of people which sometime depend on the way they place demand and supply for these coins

And this is where things get tricky

It should be obvious that everyone in this market, in fact in any market for that matter, is pursuing their own interests, which consist in earning dough, as simple as it gets. Another obvious thing is that cryptocurrency markets are essentially a zero-sum game, i.e. there is only so much money, and if you win, someone else necessarily loses. And the bigger your win is going to be, the more people will have to lose to provide for that profit

In this way, if someone, someone whom we can rightfully call a whale, uses his financial leverage to his advantage, and does his job of earning money pretty well, which is only possible if it is someone else's money (since it is a zero-sum game), it means that many people have to lose their coins and cents. Can we then call that an instance of market manipulation as this is how all these people will inevitably feel (kind of robbed)?

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Again another suspicious Bitcoin expert and another conspiracy theory and theory about whales.
I think that some people are just trying to find their five minutes of glory and get attention for their own interests. I wouldn't take this prediction seriously and definetely wouldn't react with selling, that wouldn't be a good idea.

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Quote from: CarnagexD on November 19, 2019, 09:19:11 AM

Quote from: darkangel11 on November 17, 2019, 10:21:05 AM

All Schiff wants is to sell you gold through his company and he's not even a good salesman. I saw his showing off his gold card that works as his portable wallet and saying that with it he can take his gold anywhere. He doesn't even understand that owning a card isn't like owning a bitcoin wallet. You still have to believe that some other people will believe this is gold and some other people will vouch for your card.

Peter Schiff has a company, a gold and silver investment company. Maybe He's trying to convince people to buy from it.

It is obvious that he is just trying to manipulate and convince the people in the internet to freak out and sell their cryptocurrencies and just jump into his investment company. If you really know the cycle of the market then you already know that it is normal to see a market crash and the only thing that matters is how are you going to react to it, are you going to buy more or are you going to lose your mind and sell all of your holdings.

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Quote from: darkangel11 on November 17, 2019, 10:21:05 AM

All Schiff wants is to sell you gold through his company and he's not even a good salesman. I saw his showing off his gold card that works as his portable wallet and saying that with it he can take his gold anywhere. He doesn't even understand that owning a card isn't like owning a bitcoin wallet. You still have to believe that some other people will believe this is gold and some other people will vouch for your card.

Peter Schiff has a company, a gold and silver investment company. Maybe He's trying to convince people to buy from it by doing these unnecessary things, it bugs me out. Gold and bitcoin has been the center of investment questions like what's the best deal they could have from buying these two. I just don't know why Peter Schiff acts dumb in public showing off his gold card as a "gold wallet", maybe he thinks it works on plain things, gold and silver, like bitcoin and other cryptocurrency.

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Quote from: bohr on November 18, 2019, 06:18:01 PM

Quote from: NathanJB on November 17, 2019, 10:51:17 PM

Quote from: darkangel11 on November 17, 2019, 10:21:05 AM

All Schiff wants is to sell you gold through his company and he's not even a good salesman. I saw his showing off his gold card that works as his portable wallet and saying that with it he can take his gold anywhere. He doesn't even understand that owning a card isn't like owning a bitcoin wallet. You still have to believe that some other people will believe this is gold and some other people will vouch for your card.

A card is not gold obviously. Peter Schiff does not want to admit that owning an asset does not have to go through middlemen or third parties. When someone owns Bitcoin, considered by many as the digital gold, he owns it and holds it and can even spend it without the need to go through a third middle party. The gold card that Peter Schiff is holding is nothing but a kind of representation of the gold that he owns but never has access to because it is being kept and held by a third party company far away.

This is so disappointing, he is supposed to be someone that is a supporter of gold and he is not even holding his gold himself and that kind of thinking is what allowed governments to create their fiat currencies, personally I do not care if someone prefers gold or silver over bitcoin but whatever is your preferred way to store your wealth you need to make sure that you are the only one holding your coins, otherwise when a crisis happens and you really need to get access to your coins you will be unable to do so.

That is why I considered this Peter Schiff argument very flawed from the beginning. Peter is so proud of his gold and how it is believed to be of utmost value compared to Bitcoin. I don't want to disregard the fact that gold is really valuable, dating from the most early of ages until now and most probably up to the future but he cannot argue against Bitcoin that they can also gold and own it literally. Unless they own gold in the form of jewelries or gold coins or other forms of gold that is stored in their own house, their gold is owned by third parties in a sense because they are the ones holding them.

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Quote from: NathanJB on November 17, 2019, 10:51:17 PM

Quote from: darkangel11 on November 17, 2019, 10:21:05 AM

All Schiff wants is to sell you gold through his company and he's not even a good salesman. I saw his showing off his gold card that works as his portable wallet and saying that with it he can take his gold anywhere. He doesn't even understand that owning a card isn't like owning a bitcoin wallet. You still have to believe that some other people will believe this is gold and some other people will vouch for your card.

A card is not gold obviously. Peter Schiff does not want to admit that owning an asset does not have to go through middlemen or third parties. When someone owns Bitcoin, considered by many as the digital gold, he owns it and holds it and can even spend it without the need to go through a third middle party. The gold card that Peter Schiff is holding is nothing but a kind of representation of the gold that he owns but never has access to because it is being kept and held by a third party company far away.

This is so disappointing, he is supposed to be someone that is a supporter of gold and he is not even holding his gold himself and that kind of thinking is what allowed governments to create their fiat currencies, personally I do not care if someone prefers gold or silver over bitcoin but whatever is your preferred way to store your wealth you need to make sure that you are the only one holding your coins, otherwise when a crisis happens and you really need to get access to your coins you will be unable to do so.

NathanJB

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Quote from: darkangel11 on November 17, 2019, 10:21:05 AM

All Schiff wants is to sell you gold through his company and he's not even a good salesman. I saw his showing off his gold card that works as his portable wallet and saying that with it he can take his gold anywhere. He doesn't even understand that owning a card isn't like owning a bitcoin wallet. You still have to believe that some other people will believe this is gold and some other people will vouch for your card.

A card is not gold obviously. Peter Schiff does not want to admit that owning an asset does not have to go through middlemen or third parties. When someone owns Bitcoin, considered by many as the digital gold, he owns it and holds it and can even spend it without the need to go through a third middle party. The gold card that Peter Schiff is holding is nothing but a kind of representation of the gold that he owns but never has access to because it is being kept and held by a third party company far away.

darkangel11

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All Schiff wants is to sell you gold through his company and he's not even a good salesman. I saw his showing off his gold card that works as his portable wallet and saying that with it he can take his gold anywhere. He doesn't even understand that owning a card isn't like owning a bitcoin wallet. You still have to believe that some other people will believe this is gold and some other people will vouch for your card.

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Quote from: deisik on November 15, 2019, 11:40:46 AM

Quote from: Webetcoins on November 13, 2019, 10:38:20 AM

Every investor counts and holds its own role. The impact of those who buy or sell big amounts is indeed greater than those who play in points but still if a lot of small investors will sell out, it is going to leave same impression on market value of the coin as that done by a big whale. Moreover, it is not only whales or investors that are only factor. The market depends on government movements too

There is even a theory that there are no whales (only big holders who are not trading)

And thus there are no market manipulations either, so all price movements are only caused by changes in aggregate demand as well as supply. Personally, I'm not very much sold on this theory, but that's not my point here. The main problem with the current market is that even relatively small investors and traders can move the market on their own (i.e. not collectively). In this way, they are the new whales, with truly big whales hiding deep under the surface

Anyone that has large amount of money to move in and out of the market at the shortest possible time is to me termed as a whale whether they are individual or group of people, so whales actually do exist and they started too when the wall street entered the market, it was from there that the manipulation of this bitcoin started.

Also, it is not every time like you said we see all forms of dip and rise of bitcoin as manipulation, some are definitely caused by the activities of people which sometime depend on the way they place demand and supply for these coins. Sometimes, many of these people claiming that whale will be crashing the market is just because they are also looking for the best spot to buy at a very cheaper rate so they can only join the market manipulation by buying the coin at a very cheap rate after creating panic for some investors.

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Quote from: kaya11 on November 16, 2019, 02:44:10 PM

So how can we know if the market is now manipulated or if someone says bitcoin is crashing?

You can't have 100% certainty. The market doesn't work that way.

However, you could say:
- There is evidence for market manipulation, as explained by Bitwise et al.;
- Margin trading "flash crash;"
- Correlation between Tether "printer" activities and BTC price;
- Some say the correlation between YoBit activities and BTC price, etc.

How reliable? You judge it by yourself.

Quote from: kaya11 on November 16, 2019, 02:44:10 PM

When the one whose saying it and talking about it are people with names and not to mention with their prestigious companies.

Famous people could say whatever they want, but rarely they will get punished, especially in the crypto market. In the regulated market, stupid comments will lead to fines and maybe getting delisted.

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Quote from: cotton ball on November 16, 2019, 12:22:16 AM

Quote from: NathanJB on November 15, 2019, 10:36:52 PM

Quote from: wheelz1200 on November 14, 2019, 02:41:02 PM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on November 12, 2019, 02:36:12 AM

Quote from: Linkkoin on November 06, 2019, 06:52:10 AM

We may not see such 1000% rise in price from bottom to peak like with the last halving of LTC, yet still, 200-300% price increase is a very possible thing.

A 300% price increase would take Bitcoin from the current levels of $9,000 to $36,000. I am not sure whether we can expect such a rise. I would say that the chances looks 50/50 right now. There is also a good chance that the exchange rates can go down (just like what happened to Litecoin, immediately after the block reward halving)

So what you are saying is the the price might go up a lot or it might go down a lot after halving. Cheesy

. I mean one of those comments will be right. People/groups buy and sell for various reasons. Smart money doesnt follow the crowd. Best case is to just steadily buy on predetermined timelines, and when it does go up just enjoy the ride.

It is like those self-proclaimed experts in trading showing off their self-proclaimed expert technical analysis. They will tell you that this particular movement in this particular direction is probably going happen but everybody should also be watchful and brace for the possibility that it will also take the opposite direction. They will always be right and never wrong, which makes them totally worthless.

Selling bitcoin before crash market maybe still possible because bitcoin price right now have down, although always end year bitcoin can prediction to higher price maybe is not available with this year bitcoin goes down. Without any confirmation with bitcoin adopt by big company and no country want to allow using bitcoin as legal currency will give bad price for bitcoin at the future.

Do you have an accurate tool to predict when will the market crash? I bet you don't have it so you cannot sell your Bitcoin at the most perfect time. Year ends do not always give Bitcoin a better price. There is no such pattern if I am not mistaken.

News about adoption will always be positive for Bitcoin especially if the company announcing is a large global company that has a solid clientele. A country announcing its support to Bitcoin is much better.

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Quote from: mu_enrico on October 30, 2019, 12:24:48 PM

Peter Schiff is a gold bug, not an economist Grin

About the manipulation stuff, yes, it is a legit concern since many exchanges are not regulated. Economists like to echo the "95% of reported bitcoin trading volume is fake" article. Hence, we will have this debate over and over if the situation doesn't change, i.e., not all (major) market regulated.

Trying to guess what caused the pump or the dump is useless in this "mixed" market since there is severe asymmetric information in the inefficient market.

So how can we know if the market is now manipulated or if someone says bitcoin is crashing? When the one whose saying it and talking about it are people with names and not to mention with their prestigious companies.

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Quote from: stepwilli on November 16, 2019, 04:28:33 AM

I don't know how many times we are going to discuss this topic. This topic is no longer something new, it has been discussed a lot of times .

and we all know for sure that Bitcoin can be manipulated ,same thing with other cryptocurrencies that are unregulated, they can all be manipulated.

huh ? i dont know about you but this is the only time that i saw this topic. . but im aware that bitcoin is manipulated but im not aware that whales are selling before the dump happens . whales are here because they also want to profit and they can only profit big ones they sell thier coins at the highest possible value and besides , if they will crash the market, itll only lead to more crashes because people will going to panic and sell

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I don't know how many times we are going to discuss this topic. This topic is no longer something new, it has been discussed a lot of times and we all know for sure that Bitcoin can be manipulated ,same thing with other cryptocurrencies that are unregulated, they can all be manipulated.

Judging from your rank in this forum you're already an old member I believe you know much about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, so you should not be asking questions on whether unregulated cryptocurrencies can be manipulated, because they can be. Small altcoins are even the worst, they have small market cap and anyone with a huge amount of money can just jump on any of them and start manipulating the price and after they are done they will dump then.

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Quote from: abeecrypto on November 16, 2019, 03:27:07 AM

I don’t know about you guys, but I take this as a positive note. This is what they do; at one point, they say things are about to go bad, then at another point, they are reaping benefits from the bull of the market. Very strategic people.
The ‘haters’ of crypto are still reaping benefits from them

These people are essentially producing noise

They may have their own agendas (and they most certainly do) but you should be aware that even if you strongly disagree with what they say or claim, their words are still affecting you and probably not in the way you would really want. They are spreading FUD, and it is not like we are immune to it even if we think we are and know better. Remember, the bigger the lie, the more it will be believed

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I don’t know about you guys, but I take this as a positive note. This is what they do; at one point, they say things are about to go bad, then at another point, they are reaping benefits from the bull of the market. Very strategic people.
The ‘haters’ of crypto are still reaping benefits from them.

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Quote from: NathanJB on November 15, 2019, 10:36:52 PM

Quote from: wheelz1200 on November 14, 2019, 02:41:02 PM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on November 12, 2019, 02:36:12 AM

Quote from: Linkkoin on November 06, 2019, 06:52:10 AM

We may not see such 1000% rise in price from bottom to peak like with the last halving of LTC, yet still, 200-300% price increase is a very possible thing.

A 300% price increase would take Bitcoin from the current levels of $9,000 to $36,000. I am not sure whether we can expect such a rise. I would say that the chances looks 50/50 right now. There is also a good chance that the exchange rates can go down (just like what happened to Litecoin, immediately after the block reward halving)

So what you are saying is the the price might go up a lot or it might go down a lot after halving. Cheesy

. I mean one of those comments will be right. People/groups buy and sell for various reasons. Smart money doesnt follow the crowd. Best case is to just steadily buy on predetermined timelines, and when it does go up just enjoy the ride.

It is like those self-proclaimed experts in trading showing off their self-proclaimed expert technical analysis. They will tell you that this particular movement in this particular direction is probably going happen but everybody should also be watchful and brace for the possibility that it will also take the opposite direction. They will always be right and never wrong, which makes them totally worthless.

Selling bitcoin before crash market maybe still possible because bitcoin price right now have down, although always end year bitcoin can prediction to higher price maybe is not available with this year bitcoin goes down. Without any confirmation with bitcoin adopt by big company and no country want to allow using bitcoin as legal currency will give bad price for bitcoin at the future.

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Quote from: wheelz1200 on November 14, 2019, 02:41:02 PM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on November 12, 2019, 02:36:12 AM

Quote from: Linkkoin on November 06, 2019, 06:52:10 AM

We may not see such 1000% rise in price from bottom to peak like with the last halving of LTC, yet still, 200-300% price increase is a very possible thing.

A 300% price increase would take Bitcoin from the current levels of $9,000 to $36,000. I am not sure whether we can expect such a rise. I would say that the chances looks 50/50 right now. There is also a good chance that the exchange rates can go down (just like what happened to Litecoin, immediately after the block reward halving)

So what you are saying is the the price might go up a lot or it might go down a lot after halving. Cheesy

. I mean one of those comments will be right. People/groups buy and sell for various reasons. Smart money doesnt follow the crowd. Best case is to just steadily buy on predetermined timelines, and when it does go up just enjoy the ride.

It is like those self-proclaimed experts in trading showing off their self-proclaimed expert technical analysis. They will tell you that this particular movement in this particular direction is probably going happen but everybody should also be watchful and brace for the possibility that it will also take the opposite direction. They will always be right and never wrong, which makes them totally worthless.

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Quote from: Clement Kaliyar on November 15, 2019, 02:23:04 PM

Quote from: deisik on November 15, 2019, 11:40:46 AM

There is even a theory that there are no whales (only big holders who are not trading)

Big bitcoin holders are called as whales and majority are holding the coins for the long period

In trading parlance whales are the ones who move the price

So the big holders who are just sitting on their coins don't cut it as whales (unless they choose to enter the heat), though I certainly see what you are getting at, But ultimately, it is only a matter of convention, and probably not worth discussing here further

Quote from: Clement Kaliyar on November 15, 2019, 02:23:04 PM

Quote from: deisik on November 15, 2019, 11:40:46 AM

And thus there are no market manipulation either, so all price movements are only caused by changes in aggregate demand as well as supply. Personally, I'm not very much sold on this theory, but that's not my point here. The main problem with the current market is that even relatively small investors and traders can move the market on their own (i.e. not collectively). In this way, they are the new whales, with truly big whales hiding deep under the surface

The market is not regulated and hence the possibility of manipulation is highly likely to happen and so is the reason we see instant rise and fall in the price quite often. Even a movement of huge amounts of coins from old dormant wallets can create FUD and we have seen those situation in the past where the market usually goes down when ever there is a movement of coins

I'm not saying there's no manipulation. I'm only saying there exists such an idea or theory that what we think as deliberate manipulation is really just regular market behavior. If someone buys a load of coins and that expectedly moves the price up, would you call that manipulation? And when someone else instantly unloads into this upward push, and with a vengeance at that, would it count as yet another instance of deliberate market manipulation? If these are the examples of market manipulation, then this approach destroys the very idea of manipulation as every significant price change becomes an act of downright manipulation

Note, these are the premises of that theory, I don't necessarily agree with them nor the theory itself

Topic: Bitcoin Whales Are Selling BTC Before Market Crash: Peter Schiff (Read 898 times)