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Topic: Bitcoin Whales Are Selling BTC Before Market Crash: Peter Schiff - page 5. (Read 898 times)

legendary
Activity: 3486
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The whales could manipulate or make the market move so they would always be first in line when the price moves.

It's funny how you refer to whales as if they're working together as group to manipulate the price to their advantage. It's not like that at all. In fact, whales aren't much different from you and me in terms of market outlook and whatnot. They just have more money to invest, that's it. Percentage wise, they lose out just as much as you do if the market turns against them.

Do you think whales all cashed out at a profit last year when we went from $20,000 to $3000? They got rekt just as hard as most people did, and some even harder as they provided buy support around certain levels the many sellers easily sold through

Personally, I wouldn't use this expression in the given context

And not because I love whales so much but for the simple reason it is not truly applicable to them. It is us, simple folks, who might have gotten rekt in the last two years. But if you had, say, 20M dollars' worth of bitcoins at the end of 2017 (which you had probably bought at substantially lower prices anyway), you would still have millions at the end of 2018. In other words, you don't take into account the effects of scale here

That's the reason why the Winklevii twins and the fellas of their caliber needn't necessarily feel like they have been massively rekt, if at all. If you are a multimillionaire you don't shit your pants when your investment loses half of its value as it is not the last money you have

An example of whales getting rekt are the dozens of +$10 million institutional crypto funds that had to shut down with over 90% losses. Amongst them there were even +$100 million funds that lost +90% of what they put in. If they just sticked to Bitcoin their losses woudn't be as severe

I wouldn't call them whales as these funds are managing someone else's money (and someone else should be read and interpreted in plural here as in small fish)
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18697
It's funny how you refer to whales as if they're working together as group to manipulate the price to their advantage.
This is something that always occurs to me whenever you see posts or threads on here or any other platform complaining about "the whales" manipulating the market. People seem to think that all these big players are working together to make money from the average Joe, like it's some kind of big conspiracy. There is a secret alert which goes off in your wallet when it contains more than a set amount of bitcoin with a link to a hidden "whale" forum". You have to sign a transaction from an address with more than 1,000 BTC to be allowed to join, and there they plot all their big market movements together, like some kind of secret pump and dump group.

If moving the market up and down was as easy as some people make it out to be, then why don't the largest whales collaborate to just swing the market up and down by 20% in the space of a few hours as they fancy and increase their holdings massively each time (and therefore make further manipulations even easier)?

Whales can affect the market, can amplify bull or bear runs, can cause big swings, sure, but they can't just move it up or down at will.
jr. member
Activity: 87
Merit: 1
This guy is spreading fud again and again
sr. member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 253
Undeads.com - P2E Runner Game
It usually depends on market conditions like this. If it's a market when it's good and a lot of good news accompanies Crypto normally it's a natural demand.
But if the exchange is bad is usually a lot of manipulation of the big man or from the market manipulate it use their bots.
legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1427
The whales could manipulate or make the market move so they would always be first in line when the price moves.

It's funny how you refer to whales as if they're working together as group to manipulate the price to their advantage. It's not like that at all. In fact, whales aren't much different from you and me in terms of market outlook and whatnot. They just have more money to invest, that's it. Percentage wise, they lose out just as much as you do if the market turns against them.

Do you think whales all cashed out at a profit last year when we went from $20,000 to $3000? They got rekt just as hard as most people did, and some even harder as they provided buy support around certain levels the many sellers easily sold through.

An example of whales getting rekt are the dozens of +$10 million institutional crypto funds that had to shut down with over 90% losses. Amongst them there were even +$100 million funds that lost +90% of what they put in. If they just sticked to Bitcoin their losses woudn't be as severe.
sr. member
Activity: 756
Merit: 251
Well it isn't a surprise anymore ,
I have been thinking about it for so long and I believe that it's true,
The whales could manipulate or make the market move so they would always be first in line when the price moves.

Well, anybody who knows or predicted that there is going to be a bearish day ahead will naturally sell their coins. But you know what, this is actually the reason itself why there is a bearish day. It is because people react to rumors. And who is Peter Schiff by the way? Do we have to listen to this man? This man is almost always Craig Wright when it comes to sanity. They both appear to have lost them. Peter Schiff is a Bitcoin hater. We should not even listen to him.
sr. member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 301
Well it isn't a surprise anymore ,
I have been thinking about it for so long and I believe that it's true,
The whales could manipulate or make the market move so they would always be first in line when the price moves.
member
Activity: 590
Merit: 39
Just look at the history of his predictions, of all the only predictions about the economic recession that occured in 2008 that really happened the rest is just nonsense especially about BTC, and it seems he is just a BTC haters who constantly make bad statements about BTC and Crypto to bring investment funds in BTC turn to gold.
Manipulation is always there not only in the BTC or Crypto market as well as in the gold market too, news for reference https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2019/05/20/yes-gold-is-being-manipulated-but-to-what-extent/#425548062865

he says this nonsense for the media because he has a financial interest in it. I don't think he believes in what he says, it's propaganda. recently he said that bitcoin is going to 1,000 usd...  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2982
Merit: 1069
I've read his article. It might be true that whales and other investors are cashing out as it's festive time and a the prices are higher for the last 3 months average. But such cashout don't really cause a price crash. There are now huge resistance of long term holders. Many of them are not going to sell anything below 20K.
legendary
Activity: 2814
Merit: 1112
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Just look at the history of his predictions, of all the only predictions about the economic recession that occured in 2008 that really happened the rest is just nonsense especially about BTC, and it seems he is just a BTC haters who constantly make bad statements about BTC and Crypto to bring investment funds in BTC turn to gold.
Manipulation is always there not only in the BTC or Crypto market as well as in the gold market too, news for reference https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2019/05/20/yes-gold-is-being-manipulated-but-to-what-extent/#425548062865
copper member
Activity: 2324
Merit: 2142
Slots Enthusiast & Expert
Schiff is a perma-bear on everything that isn't gold

Peter Schiff, who is all in on gold, says bitcoin is a bubble and people should sell and buy gold instead.

Peter Schiff seems to be a famous gold bug advocating possession of physical gold:

^^Sum up of Peter Schiff reputation


By the way, I just realized there are "levels" of gold bug, just like bitcoin:

Quote
Gold bugs fall on a spectrum. Mild gold bugs may keep a hedge in gold and increase holdings in times of volatility. Using gold as a preferred safe haven has worked in many challenging markets, and gold bugs of this type can hardly be faulted for having a preference. In fact, in high value portfolios holdings of gold and other precious metals can make sense from a diversification perspective. On the extreme end, however, gold bugs obsession with gold often has more to do with distrusting the modern banking system than trying to protect the value of a diversified portfolio.
Source: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/goldbug.asp

I think Peter Schiff is a gold maximalist (the extreme end). His logic:
- Interest rate up > bad for the economy > market crash > economic crisis
- Interest rate down > bad for the economy > market crash > economic crisis
- Interest rate unchanged > bad for the economy > market crash > economic crisis
hero member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 531
Price manipulation happens in all investments though, just because crypto-currencies are a new decentralized version of money, doesn't mean the market is regulated enough to stop this.

Insider trading and price manipulations, as well as dumping share purposely, etc, all occur in the real stock market. Market manipulation from whales happens in the crypto market, so both sides have ways to change the market.
sr. member
Activity: 1526
Merit: 332
It could be. The thing about these whales is that they're unpredictable and can do artificial pumps and dumps whenever they please. However, during these pumps, it could also have induced FOMO and brought in a surge of demand that further increased the prices. These scenarios can't be stopped from happening since no regulation ever exists. And looking at the charts and the current scenario, there's not much really happening that could trigger another demand increase 'naturally', thus explains why the prices are gradually going down since people who opened from $7k range are starting to sell rather than lose more.
hero member
Activity: 2016
Merit: 540
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
TL;DR: If Schiff says bitcoin is going to collapse, that makes me bullish.
I don't know about that.  He'll probably say it whether we should be bullish or not.  I think it's best just to tune him out altogether.
I am not going to believe anyone, even the creator of bitcoin if he appears from somewhere and says that bitcoin will collapse. Only those who lack knowledge and cannot see the future can pass such comments. If ever, bitcoin was some bubble, it would have cared less about making millionaires. This digital currency is the future of money, staying in this world longer than most of us will.
brand new
Activity: 0
Merit: 0
HE IS NOT AN ECONOMIST
hero member
Activity: 2576
Merit: 666
I don't take loans, ask for sig if I ever do.
Yawn. When are people going to stop listening to Schiff?
You'd expect him to be the guy that says "Don't say I told you so" after one corrct predictions from the hunded fails he had. He's famous though, in the opposite way that was supposed to be. Listening to his predictions and doing the opposite of them could net you in some profit.

Gold is likely the best investment option if you want to preserve your wealth (well, maybe at some small expense but still), but when it comes to multiplying it (since this is what most of us are looking for), gold is definitely not an investment of choice
Yep. Even banks would like to fall into gold when a market crashes. Sadly, it's because of this, this attribute of gold which still constantly holds a steady value that makes it a good source to fall back into.
But sadly, its pretty difficult for the old to defeat the new. BTC was pretty fresh in the eyes and a lot accepted it, so naturally, it would exceed the ones before it.
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
Undeniably price manipulation often happens in unregulated crypto markets. Do you agree in this economist statement or do you oppose? Do you believe that recent price surge is cause by manipulation or natural demand?

What would you really expect from this guy given his background?

Peter Schiff seems to be a famous gold bug advocating possession of physical gold:

Quote
I have long recommended that investors put aside 5-10% of their portfolios in physical precious metals. But I was troubled to hear stories of my clients getting swindled by dishonest gold dealers

So now it is because of dishonest gold dealers that gold has been massively underperfoming last years (or so it feels). Okay then. But let's not be too hard on him. It is difficult to maintain your composure when you see Bitcoin rising from "rags to riches", metaphorically speaking, in less than no time, while gold couldn't even beat the US dollar inflation during the last 40 years or so (you will remember that Dimon dude from JPMorgan). Gold is likely the best investment option if you want to preserve your wealth (well, maybe at some small expense but still), but when it comes to multiplying it (since this is what most of us are looking for), gold is definitely not an investment of choice
hero member
Activity: 1638
Merit: 518
Quote
Peter Schiff ruthlessly shatters the dreams of Bitcoin holders who hope that the top coin will reach new highs, reiterating his point about market manipulations.

Peter Schiff, the CEO of Euro Pacific Capital, is not amused by Bitcoin's latest 40 percent price revival.

The world-famous gold proponent continues to insist that the crypto market is being manipulated by deep-pocketed whales.

In his latest tweet, Schiff states that large Bitcoin holders want to protect themselves from the upcoming market crash by selling their BTC and using delusional holders to cash in.   

After numerous pundits tried to wrap their heads around the recent market rally, Schiff took to Twitter to share his own take on Oct. 28. He believes that this Bitcoin turnaround had nothing to do with China and everything to do with whales "suckering in" gullible buyers.

Schiff rose to stardom by accurately foreseeing the financial market crisis in 2008, but Bitcoin price predictions might not be his thing.

As reported by U.Today, he claimed that the BTC price could plunge to as low as $2,000 on Oct. 20, less than a week before Bitcoin recorded its third biggest daily gain in history.

His $4,000 prediction, which was made right after Bitcoin's precipitous plunge to the $8,000 level, also never came to fruition.   

Source

Undeniably price manipulation often happens in unregulated crypto markets. Do you agree in this economist statement or do you oppose? Do you believe that recent price surge is cause by manipulation or natural demand?

of course, whoever he is, I totally agree with such statements.
but about this one :
"The whales must make sure the hodlers don't lose faith and cash out so that they can cash in!"
i disagree about this statement, it seems like propaganda for me.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1483
Peter Schiff, who is all in on gold, says bitcoin is a bubble and people should sell and buy gold instead. Well, color me shocked!

i don't think his primary aim with these prognostications is to get people to sell bitcoin. it's to keep his flock from straying.

he knows that bitcoin's monetary properties are attractive to gold bugs---it's a direct competitor on the store-of-value front. he's got a loyal following (many of whom are customers of his gold brokerage) and he's terrified of losing them.

he uses fear of monetary loss to persuade people to exit fiat and buy gold. in the same way, he uses it to persuade his followers against exiting gold to buy bitcoin.
hero member
Activity: 1806
Merit: 672
Aren't we all know this by now that the market is indeed manipulated by whales for their own liking? One of the reasons why we have a very volatile market is because we are under in heavy manipulation from whales and even news. Not only are they doing this during profit taking but also in accumulation of the cryptocurrencies when it has bottomed out. In fact from the news I have seen is they never had sold their position when BTC was in the bearish market for a while and they hodl it until it rise back up again. With the heavy influence of the position of the whales have we are in fact at their mercy always and we can't really do anything about that. But pretty soon whales won't be happy about this price levels anymore and I think they will strive for BTC to achieve onto a all new ath in the future
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